Hi guys,

Recently joined the forum as I have recently become the proud owner of a 02 Octavia VRS.

As the topic title suggests, I am contemplating changing the standard air filter for a K&N version but do they work as the manufacturer suggests? IE...a bit more power and better filtration so cleaner air to the injection sysytem.

Any thiughts or comments would help me decide to buy or not to buy??

Neil

They let too many particals through which can knacker your turbo. Stick to a paper one. I had a k and n and took it off for this reason

I've taken mines out and went back to standard.

If you want better filtration, stick to filters you can't see through.

Find a paper filter like stock, but with the deepest pleats (most surface area) possible.

Mine have always worked fine (7 cars and about 100,000 miles) .....and no dust or dirt marks on the "clean side" of the filter housing so it stops as much dirt as the the paper one, I tend to clean and re-oil mine every 5 to 7000 miles though

When you say a 'K&N' version, I'm assuming you mean a cone filter or cold air induction kit? They don't do a great deal, apart from making a little more noise IMO.

I would recommend looking at a up rated panel filter, such as ITG or pipercross (K&N also make one I think). It looks stock, but does the same job! You can always remove the ribs from the inside of the air box lid and put a CAI pipe into it if your dead set on getting more air in, but the std set up is pretty good and will do you upto and beyond stage 2.

And welcome to the forums fella!

Edited 18 October, 201213 yr by BobSmoke

It entirely depends on the car, I have a K&N 57i with a bigger cold air feed on the Lotus and it does make a difference - indeed my old car gave 10 bhp more with a 57i than with a Hurricane air induction system.

The replacement panel filters won't make much difference and can actually cause MAF issues over time - I have not heard them causing turbo problems though and have run them on several HPT cars.

Mine have always worked fine (7 cars and about 100,000 miles) .....and no dust or dirt marks on the "clean side" of the filter housing so it stops as much dirt as the the paper one, I tend to clean and re-oil mine every 5 to 7000 miles though

Were you running in dry/dusty conditions?

Some light reading for you:

http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

A summary on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%26N_Engineering,_Inc.

However' date=' independent tests dispute these claims; compared to the filter paper media in most original-type air filters, K&N's cotton gauze filters have been shown to clog more quickly and to let more particulates pass through into the engine.[/quote']

Were you running in dry/dusty conditions?

Some light reading for you:

http://home.roadrunn...5011/SPICER.htm

A summary on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia....gineering,_Inc.

We only get rain in the UK ... so not sure about this dry/dusty thing

We only get rain in the UK ... so not sure about this dry/dusty thing

You can thank the rain for keeping your intake free of dust and dirt then. Not the fly screen filter.

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/202991-changing-air-filter-mk2-fabia-vrs-tsi-guide

This might provide some insight even if for a different engine..

george

I run one in my WRX and my brother has one in his Land Cruiser 75 series ute. 4x4 ute is dry dusty Australia and the intake of his ute, like my WRX show absolutly no sign of any dust in the intake past the filter.

My WRX has 154,???km now and my brothers ute has 250,000+km. I installed the filter within the first couple of weeks of owning it and my brother bought his ute with 98,???km on it. I'm on my second filter, the first on was replaced about 5000 - 10,000km ago.

I have read both positives and negatives about the flow benifits. All I know is the filtering is at least as good as a paper filter.

I'll be fitting one to my Yeti soon after I get it.

Happy Days.

http://www.briskoda....a-vrs-tsi-guide

This might provide some insight even if for a different engine..

george

That filter is foam, which I have also tried. I found the oil ran out of the foam and made a horrid mess in a 75 series Land cruiser Troop carrier Air box (actually drum shape).

The oiled cotton with K&N specific oil has never run. In my experience.

I have always cleaned and re-oiled with K&N specific cleaner and oil. Usually about ever 15,000-20,000km

Happy Days

I used K&N filters here for off road, & Piper Cross & Green Cotton, as they do not just fall apart when wet.

But around £36 & need properly cleaned and re- treated & can strangle an engine.

Or some just get washed and then are sometimes next to useless as filters.

Perfect for dusty use & long life.

For those that do regular maintenance and dont just buy another and throw stuff away.

(& read instructions on treatment and care.)

Not a performance enhanser with many engines when it is just a replacement panel filter. JME & JMO.

I now use MANN filters at 'Much Cheapness', they do not fall apart when wet, & get changed when required.

I would in certain applications like Quads and trail bikes use K&N filters if needed.

http://www.torquecar...uction-kits.php

george

As an example. this is a K&N filter that my son put new into a Jimny,

even tho i told him not to, it cost £42.

He was struggling to get any power a couple of months later & the engine was running very rich.

I was not surprised to see the filter when i opened the Air Filter housing.

Now i am not going to clean this or use it,

the £11 MANN filter has been in for a few thousand miles and about 6 months.

Cheapest to refresh with a new filter than drop 5 mpg or so & even worse if someone over oils or re-dresses a K & N wrong and kills a MAF.

I run one in my WRX and my brother has one in his Land Cruiser 75 series ute. 4x4 ute is dry dusty Australia and the intake of his ute, like my WRX show absolutly no sign of any dust in the intake past the filter.

If you want to be really scared, put some of the used oil from that landcruiser in for oil analysis. The fine dust that causes wear and ends up in your oil is not easily visible in the intake tubes, but shows up as high silica counts in your oil.

If you like I can give you the details of an Australian process engineer who does filter development work. He has tested K$N and other filters, the results mirror the duramax test in the links earlier.

In short I would never install these on any engine I cared about, especially in dusty conditions. I made the mistake of fitting one once and will never do it again.

Fitting a K$N filter will void the warranty on your engine and turbo.

Seriously, read this test: http://home.roadrunn...5011/SPICER.htm

To summarise the results:

K&N

Worst filtration efficiency.

Second worst dirt capacity

Second worst for most mass of particulate passed through.

Lowest pressure restriction (no surprise, not filtering makes more flow easy)

Second fastest to reach restriction limits.

Edited 20 October, 201213 yr by Kiwibacon

Interesting, but one of my old cars had a £25k engine conversion and that included a K&N 57i. I'm don't that it has caused any problems on that engine (Honda K20a + Jackson supercharger) and the company has sold plenty of them.

Also, if it did cause major problems I don't expect they'd still be in business.

http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm

Why should they cause problems if fitted and used in the correct application, & they have their uses.

Also retreated properly, even if you do not want 100,000 miles from one filter.

*Some do cause problems for what ever reason.*

They do not stand up to claims on the advantages of them for many applications.

But the wording is careful on what they do say the filters do.

Many US terms & never really updated for the UK, but then i have not closely read all the stuff in the last decade.

I stopped being impressed by them years before that.

Very handy as a Cone Filter, there are better options as a panel filter, IMO.

Others do better for less money, again just IMO.

george

Neil, where are you geographically?

I don't doubt the issues reported by our Aussie and NZ colleagues regarding dust- its really fine stuff down there and gets in everywhere!

In the UK/Europe it's not nearly as bad and I'll stick with my original post. For the mk1 octy, a panel filter (even an OEM one) will be no worse than a K&N, unless your after a bit more noise.

If you want to go down the cone filter route, you need to go for a full CAI, otherwise your just sucking in hot air from the engine bay resulting in a drop in power as she gets hotter. That said, given the flooding we've had here recently, I'd stay clear - a friend nearly wrote off her golf due to having one fitted and some poor judgement on her part. Long story, and we can laugh about it now, but nearly wrote off her car.

For the mk1, best bang for your buck is a good quality remap (Shark, REVO, APR or Jabba are the top runners) and a rear ARB. Decent tyres and an updated DV are worth investing in too. After that, Until you move up to stage 2 and beyond, your spending money for bragging rights only (IMO).

Edited 21 October, 201213 yr by BobSmoke

My biggest question is "why do you want to fit such a thing?"

If it's for performance, don't. It won't make any noticable or measurable difference.

It's certainly not for engine protection, they suck at that.

Fitting a cone filter is IMO one of the dumbest mods you can do. It removes the water/dust seperation that factory air-boxes do very well, it also sucks hot air from inside the engine bay (performance reducer). If you fit a cone filter and a cold air feed, then the cold air feed is also a water scoop.

I think your statements are rather broad and sweeping - like I said a (hub) dyno verified 10bhp better than an enclosed (Hurricane) air induction system on my Elise. It also depends where the air feed comes from.

On my E36 M3 Evo, it was properly designed by an engineer and separated from the engine bay, on the Elise, it in the wheel arch with a dedicated cold air feed.

I think your statements are rather broad and sweeping - like I said a (hub) dyno verified 10bhp better than an enclosed (Hurricane) air induction system on my Elise. It also depends where the air feed comes from.

On my E36 M3 Evo, it was properly designed by an engineer and separated from the engine bay, on the Elise, it in the wheel arch with a dedicated cold air feed.

Why not fit a larger and better filter, get the same pressure drop but actually filter the air?

Why not fit a larger and better filter, get the same pressure drop but actually filter the air?

I've never heard critical comments about K&N filters, so have absolutely no intention of changing. I've had various systems (ITG, JR, K&N, Hurricane etc) as well as basic replacement filters and none have given me any problems with two cars above 200,000 miles. My Elise (K series) has done 101,000 miles and my old car (with a K&N 57i) is now raced in sprint events and is up to 360bhp still with the same air filter and no issues.

So, problems may occur crossing deserts, otherwise I don't think so!

So, problems may occur crossing deserts, otherwise I don't think so!

So straight denial then?

Did you read the filter test linked in above? Have you had oil analysis done on your engine to see how much isn't being filtered? Perhaps a compression test to see how your rings like those fine particles! How about holding one up to the light and seeing the holes big enough to read a newspaper through?

I'm guessing you don't have a turbocharger on your Elise. The blades on turbochargers really hate unclean air.

100,00 miles isn't much. You'll probably get that in the UK with no air filter.

Air filtration vs pressure drop is pretty simple. To get your required air through the area of the stock filter takes a certain pressure drop. To reduce that pressure drop you can either filter the air less (a bad thing) or you can increase the size of the filter (a good thing).

On my 4wd I run a restriction guage. No measurable restriction means you've blown a hole in your filter. Too much restriction means it's time to clean the filter. On all my vehicles I run paper or cotton elements. The only cotton one I run is a Denso which is produced for Toyota. It is completely different in appearance and filtration effectiveness to the "performance" filters. It isn't oiled, can't be seen though and I haven't needed to wash it yet.

Edited 23 October, 201213 yr by Kiwibacon

I think its hard to argue with anyone who has driven 2 cars for 200,000 miles or more.

101,000 miles in an Elise that cant be any older than 16 years old is good going and maybe why you can not hear any critical comments

on K&N filters,

i would be deaf as well.

Its sometimes best to stick with what you know works well.

(or the Devil you know as i would see it.)

george

Its sometimes best to stick with what you know works well.

+1

I would have over 400,000km with K&N filters and had no problems or signs of engine wear any worse than any motor with any other filter. So why change.

I will note though. I'm on my second K&N filter in the WRX. There are 2 part numbers for WRX filters with identical dimmensions. The difference is the number of pleats. The more pleats, the more surface area the more air flow. I had a late night conversation with a K&N tech guy via email and he ended up grabbing the 2 filters out of stock and counting the pleats. I dont remember what the count was but I could'nt order the one I wanted here in Australia and had to order it OS.

Happy Days.