REMAP - Insurer now refusing to provide a quote

[Kiwibacon]

To be able to prove it, they'd need the original file and a competent tuner to show the differences. They'd have to prove that any file they had for comparison was valid and was the latest dealer reflash that was actually applied to that car.

From a technical point of view, I can't see them being able to prove anything without testimony from a competent tuner. Unless they could match your file to a commercially available remap. In which case they'd have to buy all the remaps files and troll through to compare.

[Guest]

Don't be naive to the extent at which insurance companys will go to prove attempted fraud to avoid paying out on claims and the sorts of industry experts they employ.

[rustyGT]

Don't be naive to the extent at which insurance companys will go to prove attempted fraud to avoid paying out on claims and the sorts of industry experts they employ.

Exactly my thought... They ask at the time of the quote any modifications.. If they are looking at having to pay out for a total loss and possibly personal injury to a third party and your ecu is scanned and it shows a map producing 200bhp and not the factory 170 you're got a battle on your hands to get a penny from them... They don't need the factory map, just the published figures for the car.

[Guest]

The map itself won't give you the figures and they don't need to dyno it either because they don't need the figures. There will sufficent evidence that the ecu has been modified to change the car's performance charactaristics.

[Fitz323]

Where would someone stand if they bought a second hand car that was remapped and the new owner was none the wiser?

[Guest]

No idea but I looked at the checksum counter on mine with VCDS to confirm it hadn't been mapped. I was certain anyway just from driving it that it was standard.

[Brimma]

Where would someone stand if they bought a second hand car that was remapped and the new owner was none the wiser?

That's an interesting one, Fitz

It would be an easy get-out for someone to say "I didn't know it was there, guv", so I'm guessing the onus might be on the owner, but it is only a guess

[Guest]

That's an interesting one, Fitz

It would be an easy get-out for someone to say "I didn't know it was there, guv", so I'm guessing the onus might be on the owner, but it is only a guess

Onus would be on the policy holder to declare I expect. Ignorance isn't a defence?

[Fitz323]

Whenever I am asked during a quote from the insurance company if it is modified I always state "not to my knowledge".

If you know your cars it may be likely you would know if it has been mapped but there are other more subtle mods like poly bushes, roll bars etc that only the most discerning new owners may spot.

[Brimma]

Onus would be on the policy holder to declare I expect. Ignorance isn't a defence?

Ignorance of the law is no defence, eg knowing whether or not you need insurance

Ignorance of the facts is something different, hence my tendency to sit on the fence

[Gyp]

Where would someone stand if they bought a second hand car that was remapped and the new owner was none the wiser?

I suspect the answer is that I'd that the new owner should have declared it even though that didn't know about it, but I'd hope the insurance ombudsman would rule that there was no intent to defraud and no way that the owner would have known.

But I admit that's speculation.

I find the whole thing fascinating, tbh.

If I have a switchable map, and use the stock map for road use and the performance map for track days, why would the insurer need to know or care? The mapping would be identical to that from the factory, but as the entire ecu would not match the original, it's probably seem as a modification.

Even with the performance map, the fuel pump can't flow any more fuel, nor the turbo pump any more air, it's just tuned for optimum efficiency not too far different from when the mobile tuning van came round and set up the carb and ignition timing on Ford Cortinas.

I'd previously assumed that if I had a switchable map that would protect me in circumstances where my insurer decided not to cover remaps but now I suspect not especially as it appears that the standard switched map might be generic and not precisely the one that Skoda most recently put on my car.

Now, who calls up their insurer when the put fuel in the car that's supposed to improve performance out efficiency, our oil that's supposed to do the same? And what about all those exhausts sold by quickfit or similar outlets the length and breadth of the country? Those may increase or decrease engine performance, but I very there isn't a queue of people reporting them to their insurance companies.

[Guest]

Ignorance of the law is no defence, eg knowing whether or not you need insurance

Ignorance of the facts is something different, hence my tendency to sit on the fence

Mm good point still wouldn't want to find myself using it as my defence though

[Guest]

I suspect the answer is that I'd that the new owner should have declared it even though that didn't know about it, but I'd hope the insurance ombudsman would rule that there was no intent to defraud and no way that the owner would have known.

But I admit that's speculation.

I find the whole thing fascinating, tbh.

If I have a switchable map, and use the stock map for road use and the performance map for track days, why would the insurer need to know or care? The mapping would be identical to that from the factory, but as the entire ecu would not match the original, it's probably seem as a modification.

Even with the performance map, the fuel pump can't flow any more fuel, nor the turbo pump any more air, it's just tuned for optimum efficiency not too far different from when the mobile tuning van came round and set up the carb and ignition timing on Ford Cortinas.

I'd previously assumed that if I had a switchable map that would protect me in circumstances where my insurer decided not to cover remaps but now I suspect not especially as it appears that the standard switched map might be generic and not precisely the one that Skoda most recently put on my car.

Now, who calls up their insurer when the put fuel in the car that's supposed to improve performance out efficiency, our oil that's supposed to do the same? And what about all those exhausts sold by quickfit or similar outlets the length and breadth of the country? Those may increase or decrease engine performance, but I very there isn't a queue of people reporting them to their insurance companies.

Switchable map is still a modification you need to inform of irrespective of whether you just used it in standard mode on the public road.

Bottom line is always declare everything and let your insurer decide.

[Brimma]

Mm good point still wouldn't want to find myself using it as my defence though

Neither would I

As in a 'switchable' map for track - are the powers that be really going to believe that you weren't using it on the road????????

I think not

[Gyp]

As in a 'switchable' map for track - are the powers that be really going to believe that you weren't using it on the road????????

I think not

If by "the powers that be" you mean the insurance co, then very probably not but that doesn't matter at all; insurance cover and quotations have always been on the basis of what's declared/stated on the policy application.

Now, if you tell them you are running the stock map and then have an accident using the performance map then that would be a different matter.

[Guest]

If by "the powers that be" you mean the insurance co, then very probably not but that doesn't matter at all; insurance cover and quotations have always been on the basis of what's declared/stated on the policy application.

Now, if you tell them you are running the stock map and then have an accident using the performance map then that would be a different matter.

It's a mute point because if the car has been modified by a remap they will charge you the premium regardless of whether you tell them you only run a stock map on the road. Why are people persistently looking for ways to avoid telling their insurer about their remap? If you can't afford the insurance don't get a remap, simple.

[littleade]

Insurance companies will not pay out if they believe you haven't declared any modifications at the time you take the policy out. this isn't restricted to just performance enhancement, ANYTHING that could effect the chances of the car being stolen, or stolen from too. Ask any Corsa driver who's put alloys on his 1.2!

As far as remapping is concerned I would suggest any changes to the program would be recoverable by the insurer just by plugging in the assessors laptop and interrogating the CPU. I say this because having talked to my local independednt computer shop when having my PC repaired they say to wipe stuff from the compuers memory you have to use a special program, just deleteing it emptying your trash bin and doing a defrag doesn't get rid of the data, it only removes the links.

I don't think they will be interested in whether you knew or not, the fact being that if you declared it as standard and it wasn't that would be good enough reason for them not to pay out and if they refuse what are you going to do about it apart from possibly going to the ombudsman? It's likely you won't get anything- do you think it's worth the risk given it probably won't be that much more extra to come clean. If you've bought a car 2nd hand I would guess you would need to prove you took reasonable steps to determine if it was standard- either the advert if you bought it private or a declaration from the dealer if you bought it from the trade.

Call me sceptical but the insurance companies are businesses set up to make money and if they think you've not been straight with them they won't pay because insurance fraud is a major problem that cost us all more in the end-apart from the fraudsters that arn't caught (not that I'm suggesting anyone here in this thread is a fraudster).

cheers

Rant over!

Ade

[Guest]

Insurance companies will not pay out if they believe you haven't declared any modifications at the time you take the policy out. this isn't restricted to just performance enhancement, ANYTHING that could effect the chances of the car being stolen, or stolen from too. Ask any Corsa driver who's put alloys on his 1.2!

As far as remapping is concerned I would suggest any changes to the program would be recoverable by the insurer just by plugging in the assessors laptop and interrogating the CPU. I say this because having talked to my local independednt computer shop when having my PC repaired they say to wipe stuff from the compuers memory you have to use a special program, just deleteing it emptying your trash bin and doing a defrag doesn't get rid of the data, it only removes the links.

I don't think they will be interested in whether you knew or not, the fact being that if you declared it as standard and it wasn't that would be good enough reason for them not to pay out and if they refuse what are you going to do about it apart from possibly going to the ombudsman? It's likely you won't get anything- do you think it's worth the risk given it probably won't be that much more extra to come clean. If you've bought a car 2nd hand I would guess you would need to prove you took reasonable steps to determine if it was standard- either the advert if you bought it private or a declaration from the dealer if you bought it from the trade.

Call me sceptical but the insurance companies are businesses set up to make money and if they think you've not been straight with them they won't pay because insurance fraud is a major problem that cost us all more in the end-apart from the fraudsters that arn't caught (not that I'm suggesting anyone here in this thread is a fraudster).

cheers

Rant over!

Ade

The forensic recovery of blocks of data from a PC hard drive and interogating an ecu to determine whether it's been remapped are very different things but they both come down to having the right knowledge and the right tools. Insurance companies will go to extreme lengths to avoid paying out but checking ecus on cars of customers making a claim following an accident isn't exactly extreme; I would suggest that it's probably routine for certain makes and models.

[Gyp]

It's a mute point because if the car has been modified by a remap they will charge you the premium regardless of whether you tell them you only run a stock map on the road. Why are people persistently looking for ways to avoid telling their insurer about their remap? If you can't afford the insurance don't get a remap, simple.

I didn't say anything about avoiding telling the insurer about a remap. To whom are you referring?

[Guest]

I didn't say anything about avoiding telling the insurer about a remap. To whom are you referring?

Anyone thinking of not telling their insurer!!!!

[Gyp]

Anyone thinking of not telling their insurer!!!!

Don't go out on a cold day without your vest on.

Before you ask, that was directed at anyone thinking of going out on a cold day without their vest on. And yes, you're also right that it has little, if anything to do with people telling their insurer. But then your rantlet about people wanting not to tell their insurers had little, if anything to do with the issue of an insurer not determining the voracity of the information provided at point of application, but instead looking to challenge that information and discredit it should there be a claim.

Now, don't make me go all "don't run with scissors" on your ass! :-)

[Guest]

Don't go out on a cold day without your vest on.

Before you ask, that was directed at anyone thinking of going out on a cold day without their vest on. And yes, you're also right that it has little, if anything to do with people telling their insurer. But then your rantlet about people wanting not to tell their insurers had little, if anything to do with the issue of an insurer not determining the voracity of the information provided at point of application, but instead looking to challenge that information and discredit it should there be a claim.

Now, don't make me go all "don't run with scissors" on your ass! :-)

I have no idea what point you are trying to make but using words like "rantlet" make you sound a bit of a knob.

[Mison]

I'm pxing my octavia next Saturday. I've had it remapped for the last two years but have returned it to standard to sell on. Do i tell the dealer that I've had the car remapped so they can inorm the next buyer?

[Gyp]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make but using words like "rantlet" make you sound a bit of a knob.

<Sigh>

[Brimma]

I'm pxing my octavia next Saturday. I've had it remapped for the last two years but have returned it to standard to sell on. Do i tell the dealer that I've had the car remapped so they can inorm the next buyer?

Why?

It's been returned to standard

Unless you're feeling guilty that you might have been offered too much in part-ex