Ok you win... the vRS would get made to look like a 1.0L fiesta every time always and for ever by anything with more than 250bhp. Congratulations you won some internet points. Enjoy them.

The problem is you can't provide a credable and well reasoned argument and have underminned the point you were trying to make by contradicting yourself.

I think you do reach a performance level where the law of diminishing returns applies very quickly in the real world on real roads in real conditions. It is a very very rare occasion that a car like an S3 can really be pushed to it's maximum performance on the roads by even very good drivers. Hence why a I maintain that a mapped vRS (which also will very rarely be pushed to it's performance limits in the real world) can generally stick with an S3 (or any other high performance car) in the real world. Sure they would be the odd twisty bit where the S3 would get round faster but very quickly the vRS could reel it back in because the S3 could simply not be maxed out. Of course on the track all bets are off.

Well by sorted i mean the little things that are usually missed in discussions like this. Main example is despite the S3 grip levels the built in understeer will automatically lessen your speed through corners.In the vrs the walk kit quells this to some degree allowing the ability to carry more speed through corners. Better brakes for that confidence when you have to brake. Uprated suspension be they dampers and/or springs even anti-roll bars. A quickshift,good tyres along with the suspension geometry set up. If you mean business the obligitory stage 2 map. To me that's a sorted Vrs that should hold it's own in most hot family car company. The mods i have mentioned many of the forum have.

Anyone who thinks a standard vrs with a generic stage 1 will be a match for a well driven standard S3 is not being realistic. But is it not a nice feeling when people can't believe they can't leave or get beaten by skoda. It's worth owning a tuned skoda just for that feeling alone. Also when you add in the other great things about owning the octavia .....what more do you really need ?

This is my first skoda and i'm lovin it .... this does not mean my next car will another one. But they will be one the list of possibilities.

Well by sorted i mean the little things that are usually missed in discussions like this. Main example is despite the S3 grip levels the built in understeer will automatically lessen your speed through corners.In the vrs the walk kit quells this to some degree allowing the ability to carry more speed through corners. Better brakes for that confidence when you have to brake. Uprated suspension be they dampers and/or springs even anti-roll bars. A quickshift,good tyres along with the suspension geometry set up. If you mean business the obligitory stage 2 map. To me that's a sorted Vrs that should hold it's own in most hot family car company. The mods i have mentioned many of the forum have.

Anyone who thinks a standard vrs with a generic stage 1 will be a match for a well driven standard S3 is not being realistic. But is it not a nice feeling when people can't believe they can't leave or get beaten by skoda. It's worth owning a tuned skoda just for that feeling alone. Also when you add in the other great things about owning the octavia .....what more do you really need ?

This is my first skoda and i'm lovin it .... this does not mean my next car will another one. But they will be one the list of possibilities.

I think you're right. The point being that it's going to take more than a stage 1 remap; it requires various handling mods and probably a stage 2. The suspension on the standard vRS is not great in my opinion, I always found it a bit jittery and didn't inspire confidence. I am not aware of any in built understeer on the S3, the R is fairly neutral but it really depends how hard you're pushing it I guess. I still think putting the power down through front wheels only is a problem, possibly overcone with a LSD but certainly the things you describe will help close the gap.

A remapped vRS is a quick car and in the right conditions has the ability to surprise some serious cars; it's the classic sleeper car in that respect. The main difference with the S3 is that you can exploit more of the performance more of the time across a range of conditions.

Remember 4wd will not allow you to corner quicker, it will allow you to exit and power out earlier with the throttle.

On the road the cars mentioned would be close and purely down to how mad each driver was.

I once got left standing on a country road by a fiesta zetec s, I was driving an impreza turbo. I quiet like living, the guy in the fiesta obviously didn't care about living the way he was driving.

Remember 4wd will not allow you to corner quicker, it will allow you to exit and power out earlier with the throttle.

On the road the cars mentioned would be close and purely down to how mad each driver was.

I once got left standing on a country road by a fiesta zetec s, I was driving an impreza turbo. I quiet like living, the guy in the fiesta obviously didn't care about living the way he was driving.

You make a valid point but my comments assume the same driver, i.e. Point to point I know I would cover the ground quicker in the S3 than the remapped vRS because I could exploit the performance better.

I watched Grease over Christmas - theres only one way to settle this...... lol

No doubt, same driver S3 would be quicker not by a massive margin, but yeah much easier to use its potential and a better place to sit in too.

But I'd rather go a bit slower and have more fun in a 130i n/a straight six, rwd but that's another argument!

The new M135i 5dr is what's catching my eye for the next car. RWD, 320bhp (map to 380bhp) and 29k brand new with leather xenons, Bluetooth.

Oh and 0-100mph in 10.9 as standard, bye bye S3. Bye bye many so called sports cars.

29k v 11k.....

There's always going to be something quicker out there....

29k v 11k.....

Yep and that's why i never end up buying a new car, they just ain't worth it. Over Christmas mine picked up 2 new supermarket scuffs on the back bumper.... On a new car I'd have no hair left.

Past caring too much about this one and car park dings, the side looks like a scene from the moon there's that many dings in it. All picked up in the last 18 months, dent devil could do a training course on my car.

Just to throw a wild card. Nearly all the TTRS, S3 and RS3 race cars have had the haldex removed so they remain FWD only because, and i quote from a couple of the race teams who were quizzed about it, "Because FWD is faster"

However, I drove APRs Demo Golf R which was obviously fully modified, and the ability to put the power down SO EARLY when exiting the corner outweighed the loss in dynamic performance and extra weight, it was unbelievable. Being able that much power through the wheels with no traction issues is amazing and wouldn't be possible with FWD. But my mates Cupra with similar mods is the faster car not only on the straights, but also better through the bends(in the dry that is)

Im a vRS fan. Im looking at getting another and i my plan is to effectively turn it into a stage 1 K04 TFSI. Ill just be sticking on the K04 turbo, injectors and DV then haveing a custom map t run on the std exhaust and intake. Easy 300Hp, much cheaper than going stage 2+ on the K03, more power, much less stress on the engine or turbo. Pure stealth, which is what the vRS is about.

I love the S3, i think the Golf R is ridiculous priced and 100% not worth the money, but they are great cars and if your after big power ie above 300Hp then they are the cars to get. Power is useless without control.

Just to throw a wild card. Nearly all the TTRS, S3 and RS3 race cars have had the haldex removed so they remain FWD only because, and i quote from a couple of the race teams who were quizzed about it, "Because FWD is faster"

However, I drove APRs Demo Golf R which was obviously fully modified, and the ability to put the power down SO EARLY when exiting the corner outweighed the loss in dynamic performance and extra weight, it was unbelievable. Being able that much power through the wheels with no traction issues is amazing and wouldn't be possible with FWD. But my mates Cupra with similar mods is the faster car not only on the straights, but also better through the bends(in the dry that is)

Im a vRS fan. Im looking at getting another and i my plan is to effectively turn it into a stage 1 K04 TFSI. Ill just be sticking on the K04 turbo, injectors and DV then haveing a custom map t run on the std exhaust and intake. Easy 300Hp, much cheaper than going stage 2+ on the K03, more power, much less stress on the engine or turbo. Pure stealth, which is what the vRS is about.

I love the S3, i think the Golf R is ridiculous priced and 100% not worth the money, but they are great cars and if your after big power ie above 300Hp then they are the cars to get. Power is useless without control.

A lot of cost and effort to go to to get 300bhp out of an Octy when you can get the Cupra with the KO4 out the box and just remap for the same power.

Golf R worth every penny ;-)

But i hate Cupra's. Cheap and tacky interiors with minimal sound proofing and look abit to "Boy Racer" for what im after. (plus i want an estate )

K04 turbos are readily available if your willing to look for circa £500.

Injectors £300 brand new.

DV kit £100

Remap approx £500 (APR offer this map)

So £1400 for 300hp. Stage 2+ and 280Hp from the stock turbo would cost you easily another grand ontop of that.

Cupras are typically a couple £k more than the same spec vRS, so id be no worse off.

I loved the Golf R when i had it, but i think its a rip off. Id take the S3 all day long.

I loved the Golf R when i had it, but i think its a rip off. Id take the S3 all day long.

S3's are ten a penny and represent better value but R's are exclusive if money not an issue.

Alot of people tell themselves that they all have Golf Rs as well

Ill get my coat lol.

Id take the M135i instead personally or a Focus RS, or Megane RS or..

Alot of people tell themselves that they all have Golf Rs as well

Ill get my coat lol.

Id take the M135i instead personally or a Focus RS, or Megane RS or..

It's not a matter of people telling themselves, it's fact. Check out the number of S3's produced vs the number of R's produced. I've seen about 5 or 6 R's on the roads in total whereas I probably see that many S3's a week. The problem is the S3 is 7 years old so they're attainable by the burberry capped charver brigade now so that's something else to consider when comparing Octy vRS to S3.

The only one of those that arouses any interest for me would be the M135i but I'm not a BMW fan and it's pig ugly.

These golf R drivers are defensive

Ill take the Rocco R please :sun:

But i hate Cupra's. Cheap and tacky interiors with minimal sound proofing and look abit to "Boy Racer" for what im after. (plus i want an estate )

K04 turbos are readily available if your willing to look for circa £500.

Injectors £300 brand new.

DV kit £100

Remap approx £500 (APR offer this map)

So £1400 for 300hp. Stage 2+ and 280Hp from the stock turbo would cost you easily another grand ontop of that.

Cupras are typically a couple £k more than the same spec vRS, so id be no worse off.

Good plan and its surprising more haven't done this. I got my K04 kit for around £600 iirc then it's just the map. I bet you would end up going to the 2+ option though, but then I suppose you would need the clutch upgrade (£1000) but the power is so addictive.

These golf R drivers are defensive

Ill take the Rocco R please :sun:

You can't seem to make your mind up what you'd take. Funny that, someone told me not so long ago you chop and change your mind a lot. Kinda like a women

You can't seem to make your mind up what you'd take. Funny that, someone told me not so long ago you chop and change your mind a lot. Kinda like a women

Fair one its a hard choice, the amount of better cars available....

Im only winding you up. The Golf R is a great car. I absolutely loved it and would have one in an instant (if i didnt think it was so overpriced)

Just to throw a wild card. Nearly all the TTRS, S3 and RS3 race cars have had the haldex removed so they remain FWD only because, and i quote from a couple of the race teams who were quizzed about it, "Because FWD is faster"

That sounds fair enough. The downside to 4wd systems are the weight, drivetrain losses, and torque bias. The benefits are increased traction.

So, a 4wd car with the same engine/power could often be slower than a fwd - the only time it will be faster are where the power of the vehicle(s) and/or road surface and conditions exceed te traction available to the fwd by enough for the 4wd to 'catch up'. How and when you come on the gas in a fwd is also important, as done correctly you can 'drag' the car round the corner and id expect a professional racing driver to need the 'help' of 4wd a hell of a lot less than most of us on here would.

That said, this thread isn't as simple as that as the main argument appears to be whether an average driver could keep pace with another average driver who had not only 4wd but also a higher powered engine. It's all a bit riddiculous TBH but the answer is that the S3 would be slightly faster in most circumstances and, as such, on an average mixed road, would gradually get further and further away from the remapped vRS. Yes I accept that traffic might slow the S3 but equally it could slow the vRS preventing it from having any chance if catching up.

I also agree that driver recklessness could be as important as driver skill. I've had some head case in a fiesta ST fly past my old vRS TFSi on a blind bend - yes I was perfectly capable of taking the same corner at te same speed but at the end of the day it was Russian roulette on a fairly busy road......

Have to admit as good as the bmw is, it's pig ugly if the first one is anything to go by the ride will be poor and the interior cramped at best. Here in london there is a bit of a stigma attached to the 1 series. RWD in the damp or wet is not as quick as fwd on the road. Because you don't have space to exploit nature of rwd. There is simply no space to step the back out in a bend or corner.

Good plan and its surprising more haven't done this. I got my K04 kit for around £600 iirc then it's just the map. I bet you would end up going to the 2+ option though, but then I suppose you would need the clutch upgrade (£1000) but the power is so addictive.

I wouldnt track the Octavia because i have the Fabia which would literally run rings around it on a track so no need to go any more than 300hp. It would be merely a fast estate car to take the family and dog out. Plus my fabia isnt too far behind the Stage 2+ K04s with respect to bhp/ton.

Fair one its a hard choice, the amount of better cars available....

Im only winding you up. The Golf R is a great car. I absolutely loved it and would have one in an instant (if i didnt think it was so overpriced)

There's a lot of decent seriously fast hot hatches available for good money now so it is a difficult choice. I've just always loved fast Golfs but having two small children meant the practicality of the Octy was the deciding factor for a number of years.

The R probably is over priced but you get the money back when you come to sell so it's neutral in terms of how much the car actually costs to own.