The S3 is Haldex too. You can get uprated controllers.

From the net

The chassis has had the spring rating and dampers revised, along with the body kit. Like its predecessor, although badged a "quattro" model, the S3 does not employ a Torsen centre differential (as in other common quattro models), but instead uses the Swedish Haldex Traction system in its on-demand four-wheel drive transmission, due to the transverse engine layout.

I wasn't talking a car rebuild, otherwise I would have bought the S3! I'm just talking basic mods and remap... But yea, if the VRS had 4WD option, I would have snapped that right up. Still though, when all is said and done, the VRS as it stands is still a fantastic motor for respectable money.

S3 is a nippy little bugger but once the fun ends and you hit the real everyday driving I'd rather be in the Octy for a few hundred miles on the motorway or sat in the town traffic.

Besides which remap the Octy (cough) and you'll be able to play with the S3.

S3 is a nippy little bugger but once the fun ends and you hit the real everyday driving I'd rather be in the Octy for a few hundred miles on the motorway or sat in the town traffic.

Besides which remap the Octy (cough) and you'll be able to play with the S3.

S3 v remapped vRS on a country road = bye bye vRS.

There is no question 4WD vs 2WD allows you to throw it about more and I wouldn't be naive enough to think it would be like for like up against the S3. However, it would be nice to give the VRS a fighting chance.

There is no question 4WD vs 2WD allows you to throw it about more and I wouldn't be naive enough to think it would be like for like up against the S3. However, it would be nice to give the VRS a fighting chance.

It's not just about throwing it about and lateral grip. 4wd enables you to transfer all of the power/torque to the road (up to 100% to rear wheels). I found with my remapped vRS I was constantly feathering the throttle to stop the wheels from spinning up whereas with the R I can just plant the throttle and it just goes with no drama. I can also get back on the power earlier exiting corners whereas to do so with the FWD vRS risked inducing understeer.

Remember also that my vRS had uprated suspension in the form of koni fsds and eibach springs. This improved handling massively over the standard vRS setup and in my opinion helped get the power down better as there was less weight transfer to the rear under heavy acceleration as it was stiffer.

A remapped vRS tsi gives performance for a price that's difficult to match with anything else. Mines cost sub £18k new including remap and suspension mods.

It really depends what you want but don't be confused into thinking that the vRS plus a £500 remap is the equal of an S3 because it isn't. The S3 is a £30k plus car when new and whilst it's now a dated platform/chassis it does what it does out of the box without the need for aftermarket modifications. To summarise, it just handles the power better (an observation my wife made on the R over the vRS).

The R and the S3 also have much better brakes and DSG or S Tronic (if specced). A stage 1 Golf R can do 0-60 in 3.8secs and there is no way a VRS can get near that. As much as I live my VRS there is no way it can keep with these cars so I would advise not bothering trying unless on a very straight ad dry road.

The Whiteline anti lift kit also helps with wheel hop and getting the power down on the FWD VRS.

Well to be fair, the VRS is a GTI not R32 or R or S3 for that matter. So really the original comment is void. The VRS is in the bracket of the Focus ST, Civic Type R. Now surely these cars do not necessarily need to leave you in their dust in a remapped VRS....

The title of the thread is vRS v S3 and then we got to talking about remapped vRS v S3 so I don't see that any comments are void?

ive sparked a big debate - sorry lol

Merry new year....

My original question was that having owned and been in both cars i didnt realise there was such a big distance in performance. S3 stats never feel as fast as they are and that a previous car of mine with similar stats (impreza) felt heaven and earth compared to an S3...

Nah, don't be sorry. It's interesting to read people views. As to your original question with both cars being standard and both drivers of roughly the same ability the S3 would out perform the Vrs no question. But could not gaurentee which one would put a bigger smile on your face.

When you start modding it all changes, a well sorted Vrs can easily play with a standard S3. Thing is how often would meet a standard S3?

Nah, don't be sorry. It's interesting to read people views. As to your original question with both cars being standard and both drivers of roughly the same ability the S3 would out perform the Vrs no question. But could not gaurentee which one would put a bigger smile on your face.

When you start modding it all changes, a well sorted Vrs can easily play with a standard S3. Thing is how often would meet a standard S3?

Really depends what you mean by well sorted I suppose.

Really depends what you mean by well sorted I suppose.

I think you do reach a performance level where the law of diminishing returns applies very quickly in the real world on real roads in real conditions. It is a very very rare occasion that a car like an S3 can really be pushed to it's maximum performance on the roads by even very good drivers. Hence why a I maintain that a mapped vRS (which also will very rarely be pushed to it's performance limits in the real world) can generally stick with an S3 (or any other high performance car) in the real world. Sure they would be the odd twisty bit where the S3 would get round faster but very quickly the vRS could reel it back in because the S3 could simply not be maxed out. Of course on the track all bets are off.

I think you do reach a performance level where the law of diminishing returns applies very quickly in the real world on real roads in real conditions. It is a very very rare occasion that a car like an S3 can really be pushed to it's maximum performance on the roads by even very good drivers. Hence why a I maintain that a mapped vRS (which also will very rarely be pushed to it's performance limits in the real world) can generally stick with an S3 (or any other high performance car) in the real world. Sure they would be the odd twisty bit where the S3 would get round faster but very quickly the vRS could reel it back in because the S3 could simply not be maxed out. Of course on the track all bets are off.

You're really not listening are you, even when told by someone that has first hand experience from owning both a remapped vRS and the closest thing to an S3 (Golf R) you still think you know best. I'm telling you how it is based on my experience of both cars. If you think your remapped vRS will "stick with" an S3, S4 (reference to another thread), Golf R or "any other performance car" then fine, but you don't appear to have any basis for your assertions.

You're really not listening are you, even when told by someone that has first hand experience from owning both a remapped vRS and the closest thing to an S3 (Golf R) you still think you know best. I'm telling you how it is based on my experience of both cars. If you think your remapped vRS will "stick with" an S3, S4 (reference to another thread), Golf R or "any other performance car" then fine, but you don't appear to have any basis for your assertions.

You're quite right. I have never had any kind of race on a road in my vRS (or other vehicles) with any form of performance car because racing on the public highway is illegal. Neither have I ever driven any car except the vRS in over 27 years of driving.

Do you really think an S3, S4 Golf R or whatever's ability is matched by your, my, or almost any other drivers's ability? You dont get that either. So let me type slowly: It is not that the cars are equal I have never claimed they are. The car just will not be pushed to it's maximum performance on a road by the vast majority of drivers. The driver will be the limiting factor past a certain performance point so it doesnt matter if you are in a 500bhp super car or a 240bhp saloon: On real roads driven by normal people both cars will be comparable simply because the drivers will not be able to drive them to their max. The abundance of performance hot hatches driven by youngsters that have ended up buried in trees are testimony to that.

I also ride a motorbike. One that is capable of 0-60 in 3 secs, 0-100 in 7.9 secs, a quarter mile in 11 secs and keep going to 170+mph...does that mean your Golf R wouldnt know which way I'd gone under all conditions and on all roads? If so then either I'm some kind of riding God or you are a really rubbish driver.

You're quite right. I have never had any kind of race on a road in my vRS (or other vehicles) with any form of performance car because racing on the public highway is illegal. Neither have I ever driven any car except the vRS in over 27 years of driving.

Do you really think an S3, S4 Golf R or whatever's ability is matched by your, my, or almost any other drivers's ability? You dont get that either. So let me type slowly: It is not that the cars are equal I have never claimed they are. The car just will not be pushed to it's maximum performance on a road by the vast majority of drivers. The driver will be the limiting factor past a certain performance point so it doesnt matter if you are in a 500bhp super car or a 240bhp saloon: On real roads driven by normal people both cars will be comparable simply because the drivers will not be able to drive them to their max. The abundance of performance hot hatches driven by youngsters that have ended up buried in trees are testimony to that.

I also ride a motorbike. One that is capable of 0-60 in 3 secs, 0-100 in 7.9 secs, a quarter mile in 11 secs and keep going to 170+mph...does that mean your Golf R wouldnt know which way I'd gone under all conditions and on all roads? If so then either I'm some kind of riding God or you are a really rubbish driver.

It's not about pushing either to its maximum performance BUT crucially the same driver under the same conditions can push the S3 further and use more of the available performance because it provides superior handling and traction over the front wheel drive vRS. This is what you fail to understand.

I agree that the environment can make for a very level playing field sometimes.

I remember about 18 months back autocar decided to pit a Nissan GT-R (500bhp, 4wd ) against a Focus RS (300 bhp, fwd) over English B-roads and seemed surpised that there was almost nothing to choose between them. They freely admitted that on a motorway, track, almost any other situation, that the GT-R would have disappeared in the distance but just goes to show. Bit of a stupid test in my opinion.

No idea of how close a tuned vRS might get to a standard S3 in conditions that favoured the vRS but makes for some thinking perhaps.

Edited 2 January, 201313 yr by Al_Bundy

No idea of how close a tuned vRS might get to a standard S3 in conditions that favoured the vRS but makes for some thinking perhaps.

On a straight, dry road from a rolling start (40mph+) my stage 1 vRS was every bit as quick as my R is I reckon. It's achieved in very different ways though. The vRS is about the torque so in gear acceleration was excellent whereas the R is more about the power and needs to be revved hard.

It's not about pushing either to its maximum performance BUT crucially the same driver under the same conditions can push the S3 further and use more of the available performance because it provides superior handling and traction over the front wheel drive vRS. This is what you fail to understand.

Um I dont fail to understand that at all. I can go much much faster on my bike than I can in the vRS. I used to own an RS4 (lovely car but my wallet hated it). I could also drive that much faster than the vRS under the same conditions. However that doesnt mean the vRS couldnt keep within a shout of them if driven well on normal roads. Infact the vRS is often more fun simply because you are nearer it's limit, but mostly not on it.

On a straight, dry road from a rolling start (40mph+) my stage 1 vRS was every bit as quick as my R is I reckon. It's achieved in very different ways though. The vRS is about the torque so in gear acceleration was excellent whereas the R is more about the power and needs to be revved hard.

Which when you need to pull off a fast overtake to keep making progress is exactly what you need. I have no doubt that on miles and miles of lovely twisty B roads with no other vehicles the slightly more powerful 4WD would eventually leave the 2WD, but throw in a few slower cars that need to be despatched and one or two straights, junctions and all the other stuff that makes road a road and not a race track and the vRS will stay right there.

Funnily enough I was considering an S3 as a change to the vRS just the other day. If there is one thing I do miss from the RS4 it's the quatro. If I can swing it with the missus an RS3 looks tempting.

Edited 2 January, 201313 yr by pablo68

Um I dont fail to understand that at all. I can go much much faster on my bike than I can in the vRS. I used to own an RS4 (lovely car but my wallet hated it). I could also drive that much faster than the vRS under the same conditions. However that doesnt mean the vRS couldnt keep within a shout of them if driven well on normal roads. Infact the vRS is often more fun simply because you are nearer it's limit, but mostly not on it.

Your points lack clarity and are becoming contradictory. You say that you can ride your bike and drive your old RS4 much faster than your vRS under the same conditions but also say that doesn't mean the vRS couldn't keep within a shout of them on normal roads???

Your points lack clarity and are becoming contradictory. You say that you can ride your bike and drive your old RS4 much faster than your vRS under the same conditions but also say that doesn't mean the vRS couldn't keep within a shout of them on normal roads???

Because the conditions on a road are variable.

Because the conditions on a road are variable.

You specifically stated "under the same conditions" so even if the conditions on the road varied it would be the same for both.

You specifically stated "under the same conditions" so even if the conditions on the road varied it would be the same for both.

Ok you win... the vRS would get made to look like a 1.0L fiesta every time always and for ever by anything with more than 250bhp. Congratulations you won some internet points. Enjoy them.

Oh no. That's bound to set off the 1.0L fiesta owners now!