What? Mich PS3 aren't performance tyres?

What would you say are a performance tyre?

No I wouldnt and Michelin dont either

The PS2 was always Michelins "performance tyre. The PS2 was replaced by the MichelinPilot Supersport.

the PS3 replaces the Michelin pilot Exalto which isnt a performance tyre really. although its not exactly a budegt tyre either.

The Range

The current Pilot Sport range comprises of 3 different tyres:

"The Pilot Sport almost defines the adage you get what you pay for."

Michelin Pilot Super Sport

Pilot Sport 3 - The Pilot Sport 3 has a little more safety and comfort bias than the Pilot Sport 2 had, and actually replaces the Pilot Exalto 2. The Pilot Sport 3 stops 3 metres shorter than the outgoing PS2, and combines outstanding dynamic feedback with increased ride comfort, longer tread life and greater fuel efficiency. The Pilot Sport 3 is available in 15” - 19” rim sizes.

Pilot Super Sport - As the true replacement for the Pilot Sport 2, the Pilot Super Sport carves a new niche between an ultra high performance road tyre and a track day tyre, offering unrivalled dry performance yet still stopping up to 3 metres shorter than the PS2 in the wet.

Pilot Sport Cup+ - The Michelin Pilot Sport Cup+ is the hardcore trackday tyre, as fitted to the Porsche GT3 RS, BMW M3 and Corvette ZR1.

There are some people on here that would argue that the Vrs performs as well as an F430 as well as saying they have driven every car in the world.........Tenerife......Elevenerife syndrome

The Vrs is a family car and it does struggle to get its power down, no matter what tyres, yep you can spend a fortune on suspension but standard it does struggle.

Hence why i always upgrade the suspension.

But, i wonder how many people actually buy the best tyres available and who buys tyres entirely based on price? I know I always want the most grip i can get. Id rtaher have more grip and sacrifice mileage personally, but thats not for everybody.

Michelin quote for PS3's: "For sport-oriented vehicles and high-powered saloons"

I'd say they are a performance tyre, and I wouldn't say the Octavia is that High powered, I just think that the MK5 chassis isn't brilliant at putting the power down.

Just look at all the wheel hop, WALK, understeer related posts on Octavia, MK5, and Seat Leon forums. The chassis isn't brilliant, far from it. A Focus ST, Mazda 3 MPS, Astra VXR (and these are supposed to be rubbish) are leagues ahead at putting power down through the front wheels.

They are far more composed over rough roads too.

Edited 4 January, 201313 yr by vrs777

im not saying the chassis is th best thing since sliced bread by any means because we all know its not, i was merely pointing out that my tuned Octavai wasnt exactly a wheel spinning mess as you described your own and it was running coniderably more powerand torque than standard. Now mine was modified on the chassis front but i reckon some of the best improvements in grip was putting good tyres on the car.

From experience of owning an ST they also axle tramp big style and also spin their ttres with ease and understeer a fair amount. Allegedly the new ST is really bad as well, and has bad traction in 1st and 2nd according to loads of owners. Im going to test drive one tomorrow as i might get an estate ST if i like it. Although the tax free deal might tempt me back to an Octavia again.

Im a vRS fan. Im looking at getting another and i my plan is to effectively turn it into a stage 1 K04 TFSI.

Im going to test drive one tomorrow as i might get an estate ST if i like it. Although the tax free deal might tempt me back to an Octavia again.

You can't seem to make your mind up what you'd take. Funny that, someone told me not so long ago you chop and change your mind a lot. Kinda like a women

Lol that would be a Tsi then Sy, think you might be right Jonno lol.

Lol that would be a Tsi then Sy, think you might be right Jonno lol.

Im as indecisive as they come lol.

I get bored of my cars very quickly and am always on tautotrader looking for a change lol.

I keep looking on Pistonheads for S3s, but they're a bit out of my price range given I'd get pittance for my vRS. :( Would love to have the 4wd!

I know someone with all the stuff for the conversion......

You need deep pockets for that though Sy, surely? I'm mad enough to do it but I can't fund it (fecking bricks)

Edited 4 January, 201313 yr by Harry_vRS

Not really. If you get the parts second hand allegedly its only a couple k for the job.

4wd isn't the be all and end all - for decades any fwd car which has decent power through the front where will get labeled "chassis" can't get down the power.

Gets boring hearing that argument as I think it's not particularly true.... Back in the day I owned a mk3 Astra gsi with 150 bhp, that was hopeless putting down the power or even thinking about going round corner - the vrs isn't no way near that bad

My vRS (which has in the region of 330bhp and a quaife diff) puts the power down pretty nicely, but only once rolling. It's useless off the line, and if it's wet then you can forget it. 4wd, for me, would make it so much more usable and ultimately more fun. You could say more driver involvement is needed to ease the power in, but I now crave to just be able to grap it by the scruff of the neck and drive it how I want.

You haven abnormal amount of power lol - even by today's standards, no revo knuckle or any type of fancy suspension.

Must be a barrel of laughs driving that beast

Yes it is 'entertaining' to say the least

4wd isn't the be all and end all - for decades any fwd car which has decent power through the front where will get labeled "chassis" can't get down the power.

Gets boring hearing that argument as I think it's not particularly true.... Back in the day I owned a mk3 Astra gsi with 150 bhp, that was hopeless putting down the power or even thinking about going round corner - the vrs isn't no way near that bad

My remapped vRS couldn't get the power down from a standing start or low speeds in first, second, and third depending on conditions. Whilst it might be boring to hear it's simple physics. Under hard acceleration weight transfers to the rear meaning less weight over the front wheels resulting in less traction. There's a number of influencing factors such as chassis design, use/non-use of a diff, suspension, tyres and of course road conditions but fundamentally high powered front wheel drive cars struggle to be able to put all of their power down all of the time.

I found I was always having to feather the throttle in the vRS therefore I wasn't able to exploit all of the performance when I wanted to.

Thats why a linear throttle map is better than the VW throttle map. How much pressure you apply is what you get rather than pressing the pedal a couple of mm's and getting more engine load than you need. If I keep my car thats going to be my next mod for me.

Wait a sec, am i wrong in thinking that chassis of the current octavia is the same as the highly praised one in the vw golf mk5/6? Cause it seems that people are unfairly slagging it off. It is what it is. The v.a.g range have their hireacy , so a medium range model will never feel or drive like the top end model even if they are based on the same floor plans.

As regards launching from standstill get wrong regradless of what drive you have will result in a mess. It's a fine balance of grip vs. traction for fwd and rwd. 4wd requires the ability not to bog down the car. All techniques require practice to be proficient.

As to vrs777's problem with traction will assume your technique is good, so would lead me to suspect issues with suspension geomentry or your tps or even the electronic acelarator map.

I personally don't think the Golf Gti chassis is that good either, look at the forums and see how many people start to fit WALK kits, uprated bushes, and lowering springs.

As a standard chassis there is far too much play in important areas.

As for suspension geomentry, yes I think mine could do with being lower and running more negative camber to help traction issues.

What I am saying though is I've come to the conclusion FWD isn't for me if a car has say over 240bhp. Most roads are fine and traction isn't an issue but show it a slight incline (not steep) on smooth damp tarmac and it doesn't make progress very well.

Ok, i see where your at. But having owned a rwd 320 bhp nissan skyline, with no traction control or abs. Set up for grip and handeling as opposed to the usual drift spec. It was a handful in the damp and wet. Suspect more modern rwd coupe would do better. Gave it lots of respect in wet it was a hoot to drive.

we also forget that these cars are set up to be safe and comfortable. The only company that offers a more drivers focus set up is Renault with their cup upgrade, but even that option is only availabe on certain models. No 4/5 door models.

Even a 200bhp rwd Nissan 200 was ridiculous in the wet....

I personally don't think 200 bhp in fwd is not too much and I've got used to my vrs very quickly and make progress more than adequately..... I do appreciate what ome of you say regarding the chassis but I live where there are a billion and one speed humps and don't mind the suspension being softer.. That's just me

That's my problem, speed bumps everywhere otherwise the easiest solution to fwd grip is to lower and stiffen to stop weight transfer.

It would be nice if the Octavia/golf chassis had adjustable camber though. My old impreza with camber adjusters on there was great at reducing understeer.

Lower the suspension a little yes , but stiffer is not always the best way to go. Thing is with these newer cars is the they conform to Noise , Vibration and Harshness programs. So suspension components have a lot of play.

So a regime of changing certain bushes to polyurathane ( not the track orientated versions) , stiffing up the chassis with chassis braces ( see the american ebay sites for the vw golf and jetta mk5 for how much is available ). From experience the lower chassis braces have a more significant effect than the usual upper strut braces. Stuff like that works , but in reality were are trying to achieve BMW M3 type handeling from a basic fwd saloon is a very tall order.

An old fwd drag tip for managing weight transfer is to have the front slightly lower than the back. Don't know if they are available for the octavia , but on my old corrado i had 10mm lower front suspension top mounts. A small but worthwhile mod.

If you don't want to or can't lower the suspension , then just uprate the dampers ( i'm sure that is an uprated set of dampers for standard springs ) , then anti-roll bars front and rear. I think it will improve the standard chassis a great deal. Personally after fitting the walk kit and the h&r pro springs ( only 15mm lower than standard ) totally transformed the way the car handled. I'm looking at new dampers and a rear uprated anti-roll bar. There is also the dog mount kit too. All these changes taylor the car to your needs. I'm sure others here have tried these things and will gladly give or have already given they opinions on how they have or have not changed the way the car feels and handles. Personally I'm looking forward to GTI international , they are usually lots of sellers , but the most interesting conversation i had was with the polybush rep ..... reading between the sales pitch you can pick up so much info. Again going back to my corrado , had the whole car polybushed front and back suspension. Sweetest fwd car going , yep went the normal route , peugeot gti ... the 309 route ...less of a widow maker than the 205 , also cut my vw teeth on a mk2 golf gti 16v with 8v gearbox ....! It takes time and reseach to filter out what you need. I'm hoping to make the most of the Octavia chassis within my budget , without destroying all the good bits of the car. But trying to keep it realistic and affordable . It still has to have the virtues and practicallity of the original car , otherwise it's a failure. I live in london so understand the speed bump virus. Here we are lucky enough that most places have bus/ambalance friendly versions , so a small tip a wider wheel track means that you can just skip over them ( once you line it up accurately ) ...downside is track needs to be checked every 6 to 8 months and your car can't be too low. On the plus side a slightly wider track improves handling.

I'm still doing my research. Luckily many things have already be tried , so it's just a matter of serching through all the info for what seems best. It's a lot better than and less expensive than trying everything yourself .....ahhh the wonders of the internet , where were you 15 years ago. :think:

Yeah i'm running superpro bushes and superpro ALK, personally i've found that they do give more feel to the car but they also increase the NVH slightly. Some people cannot feel a difference but I can.

I find the chassis ok but tbh I jump into the Mrs Astra H and it's a revalation. It feels sharp, but is damped really well compared to the Octavia (I put on brand new shocks when I purchased it). The Astra never gets good reviews for handling but I never take any notice of magazines because they don't live with a car. The Astra resists understeer way way better than the Octavia in damp conditions, even though the Octavia runs more sports orientated tyres. I thinks sometimes low profile stiffer sidewall tyres and harder dampers actually ruin a perfectly good car, but a top of the range sports model would look silly on 16" wheels even though it would no doubt make the chassis work better.

Edited 6 January, 201313 yr by vrs777

I love my vRS, best all round car I've owned. However, I've recently bought an Impreza Sti so not really driven the Octy in the last month. Went down to Cornwall yesterday in the rain and it was really obvious how the Octy had trouble putting the power down. On a slight incline I was booting it and getting wheel spin in 4th gear! I appreciate I have way more power/torque than standard, but the Sti has 50bhp more again and I get no wheel spin at all.

The vRS has decent suspension upgrades and actually handles better (ATM!), but FWD does have a limit.