Funny thing is the haldex system is front wheel drive until the system detects the front wheels slipping and then goes 4wd until the fronts stop slipping. So unless you are really pushing or in very poor traction conditions the S3 is mainly fwd. Unlike the permanent real quattro system.

Was just watching this video

and that has different cars with different power and drivetrains racing against each other. Makes for very interesting watching when a fwd Civic with has a lot less power than the 4wd 350ps Subaru can keep up with it.

Edited 3 January, 201313 yr by 56OctyVRS

Suburus are the best kept secret ever. Everyone thinks they are fast as hell, but in reality, they just arent, unless it involves a traffic light granprix.

The Subaru has a lot more power/torque and 'better traction' over the Civic, yet the Civic keeps up with the Subaru very easily. Almost makes me want to buy a Civic as it looks a hoot.

Tthis is what we need to prove whats faster, a VRS or S3. I bet there wouldnt be much in it.....

Edited 3 January, 201313 yr by 56OctyVRS

All I know is on an incline on damp smooth tarmac in low temps my vrs is a bag of poo. Sometimes it feels like you only breath on the throttle and the traction light lights up.

RWD motors ive had were much better and the 4wd impreza was brilliant, the octy is prone to too much understeer too. They don't actually handle, they are far to understeery for that, with next to no throttle adjustability through a corner, the turbo dumbs down the throttle response.

If anyone has never driven a 205gti, Clio Williams, Clio RS 197/200/172/182, get out and see how a fwd car should handle. You drive and steer with both wheel and throttle. They adjust to inputs faster than any VAG car ever made.

What tyres?

If anyone has never driven a 205gti, Clio Williams, Clio RS 197/200/172/182, get out and see how a fwd car should handle. You drive and steer with both wheel and throttle. They adjust to inputs faster than any VAG car ever made.

Ah, the memories of my 205

Some great points, firstly I owned an impreza for 2 years - it was bullet proof and one of the fastest cars I had been in - it was a stock special model sti v4 type r 2 door model and had an adjustable diff which transformed the car from 50-50 to 15-85 rear biased car.... Never had any trouble with any mancy old Hondas in my car...

Oh the joys of a Williams I had, handling outstanding .... Everything else totally rubbish lol.

Not sure how the vrs compares to any of these cars, in my eyes it's a fast practice car, never going to out drag every car or out handle the best fwd cars - just a nice Q car which is practical and interesting

The mention of these older cars just clouds the discussion, they are all analogue cars. Like my old b.b.r corrado. There is no way i would expect a big 4/5 door family car to handle like they used to.

The Subaru has a lot more power/torque and 'better traction' over the Civic, yet the Civic keeps up with the Subaru very easily. Almost makes me want to buy a Civic as it looks a hoot.

Tthis is what we need to prove whats faster, a VRS or S3. I bet there wouldnt be much in it.....

This has been my point exactly...there wouldnt be much in it. Claims of "the vRS wouldnt know which way the xxx had gone are tosh". Still, I guess people like to defend their purchasing decisions, especially when they are expensive ones.

Edited 4 January, 201313 yr by pablo68

Still, I guess people like to defend their purchasing decisions, especially when they are expensive ones.

^^^ That.

There's no doubt that the Golf R is a mega car and in the hands of APR and a few grand later even better. But you can't argue with the value of the S3 and it's the "premium" brand over the VW too. I think Garry (grr666) would take offence to you calling him one of the "burberry capped charver brigade". I think the discussion shouldn't be whether FWD, 4WD or RWD is better for a B-road blast rather what is the max power you need before it's wasted trying to use it all.

Hilarious, a properly handling car would probably give more fun that 3-400hp

That's sort of my argument. I've had more fun in 130bhp shopping cars then I've had in stuff with lots more power. Sure they'd be faster on the straights but it's in the corners where all the fun is. As long as it's light enough if it's lacking power to keep speed up I'm not bothered. It's fun trying to go through corners as fast as you can to keep speed up.

hilarious, you wouldnt want to drive a drag car around the corners?.... lol

That's sort of my argument. I've had more fun in 130bhp shopping cars then I've had in stuff with lots more power. Sure they'd be faster on the straights but it's in the corners where all the fun is. As long as it's light enough if it's lacking power to keep speed up I'm not bothered. It's fun trying to go through corners as fast as you can to keep speed up.

Some of the best commutes I've had have been in circa 100bhp snotters, where they are on the limit on the twisties without even coming close to license losing speeds.

Some of the best commutes I've had have been in circa 100bhp snotters, where they are on the limit on the twisties without even coming close to license losing speeds.

There is no car quiker than a hire car eh!

What tyres?

Tried 3 sets now, Mich PS3, Dunlop Efficigrip (came with car) and Kumho KU37

So not totally cheap tyres and none have made a great deal of difference on an incline, smooth tarmac damp road in low temps (ie below 15 but above say 10)

The car still is wheelspin city, even with a WALK kit on.

The different tyres didn't make much difference to the cabin noise either, it's still a LOUD car.

Interestingly just got back from a blast with my mate in his Revo Stage 1 Cupra which is obviously front wheel drive (although he has just uprated the suspension) and there was nothing in it between that and the R. I just know from experience I wouldn't have kept with him in my remapped vRS.

I appreciate this debate is S3 (not R) vs remapped vRS but I'm making the assumption that performance is broadly the same (could be wrong!).

double post

Tried 3 sets now, Mich PS3, Dunlop Efficigrip (came with car) and Kumho KU37

So not totally cheap tyres and none have made a great deal of difference on an incline, smooth tarmac damp road in low temps (ie below 15 but above say 10)

The car still is wheelspin city, even with a WALK kit on.

The different tyres didn't make much difference to the cabin noise either, it's still a LOUD car.

but they arent exactly performance tyres though. Loads of much better tyres out there than that.

Mine was running 280hp and i wouldnt say it was wheelspin city by any stretch of the imagination. Decent tyres are everything.

That said driving up an incline, in the wet in a front wheel drive and planting it will spin the tyres in pretty much any hot hatch even with an LSD as the weight will have moved rearwards reducing the load over the rear axle.

Oh and the Octaia is quiet with road noise compared to a Fabia vRS!!

Some of the best commutes I've had have been in circa 100bhp snotters, where they are on the limit on the twisties without even coming close to license losing speeds.

I get hire cars most week and the most fun I've had was in a Ford Kuga diesel believe it or not. Handled really really well for a car with a relatively high driving position.

but they arent exactly performance tyres though. Loads of much better tyres out there than that.

Mine was running 280hp and i wouldnt say it was wheelspin city by any stretch of the imagination. Decent tyres are everything.

That said driving up an incline, in the wet in a front wheel drive and planting it will spin the tyres in pretty much any hot hatch even with an LSD as the weight will have moved rearwards reducing the load over the rear axle.

Oh and the Octaia is quiet with road noise compared to a Fabia vRS!!

What? Mich PS3 aren't performance tyres?

What would you say are a performance tyre?

What? Mich PS3 aren't performance tyres?

What would you say are a performance tyre?

I'm running PS3s and am impressed with them; would certainly rate them as a performance tyre.

Michelin Pilot Supersport