1.8 TSI - excessive oil consumption

[andrehj]

Hi @safari hunter. Thanks for your report and apologies.

Do you have more pictures? Especially of the spark plugs? And of the carbon build-up? More pictures is always interesting.

[safari hunter]

From tomorrow I'll take more pics with dslr, looks like my phone is not good enough in low lights conditions. Thank you Andrehj for accepting the apologies, simply I could not believe the situation it could be that bad and more over this can happen to me.

Edited 11 June, 2018 by safari hunter

[rorozsa1]

Hi All,

 

Finally I repaired my Superb 1.8 tsi in a independent garage ,  paid around €1400.  The pistons were not  worn , only the rings were totally scrap (like a mild steel, wasn't  rigid at all)) so beside the ring set replacement the following parts were also exchanged:

 

- con-rod bearing

- timing chain

- hydraulic pump chain

- balance shaft chain

-  cylinder-head gasket

- ribbed belt

- clutch-release bearing

- tightener

- 5l oil + oil filter

- and 4x set piston rings (OEM)

 

So obviously the rings were the main cause of the oil consumption problem (factory under designed) but also the chains are modified since 2012 (improved).

 

Camshaft has NOT been replaced although a sign of deterioration (wearing)  is visible. It would cost additional €650.

All in all my mechanic told me it will be good for another 50 -100 000 km but after a repair might be required  again. So he advised to sell it....

 

Good luck with your car!!!

 

Any question write me...or my private address is here ([email protected])

[safari hunter]

CDAA repair - day 2 cylinder head and pistons were removed and their condition is shown in the attached pictures.  Chain tensioner look good but will be replaced along with chains.

[safari hunter]

18 hours ago, andrehj said:

Hi @safari hunter. Thanks for your report and apologies.

Do you have more pictures? Especially of the spark plugs?

 

Spark plug it is

[rayx]

Hi,

did you use Hastings rings 2C5382 for the original pistons 06H107065BS (on pistons marking 06H AF)

1st Ring 1 mm/0.039 in.;
2nd Ring 1.2 mm/0.047 in.;
Oil Ring 1.5 mm/0.059 in.;

 

https://www.opticatonline.com/part/hastings-piston-rings-2c5382-engine-piston-ring-set

https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/catalogs

https://www.komapistonrings.com/news/hastings-manufacturing-merges-with-piston-rings-komarov

 

Well, would not call it OEM but Aftermarket, but it can work though. Would be interesting to know how it works after drive in period in longterm use.

 

My personal view on this. As GDI/TFSI/TSI etc. engines run often homogenous lean with 1 < Λ < 2 or even leaner in other modes, the NOx are the issue. Yes, two basic options are how to fight against it. First, the NOx trap/accumulating catalytic converters. But those are expensive ... So second, much cheaper option is EGR ... In case of EA888 its internal version done by the  use of continuous cam phasing ...

 

But use of EGR leads to production of solid particles (particulate matter PM), that means not only for engine oil excessive load. In case of EA888 those tiny drainage openings at miniature oil control rings can not cope long and get clogged, especially on LongLife service intervals ... Internal EGR bring us yet as "bonus" the dirt on inlet valves. I believe the direct injection technology on petrol engines is step back, currently introduced petrol particle filters (PPF/GPF etc.) just confirms that PM are big issue not just for diesels ... GDI/TSI gate likely soon???

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_direct_injection

http://aa-boschww-uk.resource.bosch.com/media/__uk/workshop_world/ww/news_special_workshopworld_1/pdf/sms_tips_technology_2014_nr76_en_58954.pdf

[safari hunter]

Rayx@ I can't tell exactly, but what I do know the version is with 23mm con rod, while the oil rings are thicker than OEM version. I will ask more the workshop mechanics.

Day 3 : cylinder head was completely inspected and cleaned and installed on engine block. Only valve seals were replaced.

[rayx]

What a confusion from your part list ... You wrote nothing about new con rods, and only mention 4x set piston rings (OEM).

 

From photos I see you got new KolbenSchmidt pistons 40 761 600 (EAN 4028977771712) which are already for 23mm pins, already assembled with piston rings, unfortunately with the bad version of oil control ring, only drilled one again, prone to clogge ...

 

Your engine is what MY and month? I guess it is before end of May 2011, so you got 21mm piston pins. In this case is better to use piston sets 40 251 600 (EAN 4028977685996), version of 06H107065BK from BZB engine, no reason to buy new con rods too.

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/?do=findComment&comment=5017852

 

If it is later one, that means it is another proof of VAG genius, as these beasts were equiped with oil control rings of 2mm height, but still only drilled, not slotted as on trouble free pistons 06H107065BK from BZB engine or Three Piece Flex Vent known as SLF/Miniflex/multi-piece from latest piston version ... From June 2011 till about October 2011 VAG used pistons 06H107065CP, then till about 2015/2016 pistons 06H107065DF. As these are problematic too, last version 06H107065DL with SLF oil control ring was introduced.

 

In this case I would recommed to use from KolbenSchmidt their version 41 197 600 (EAN 4028977886003) with SLF oil rings instead of used 40 761 600.

 

Check it here

http://catalog.ms-motorservice.com/

 

 

Yet concerning the timing chains and parts, only VAG/ OEM Morse parts used or not? Many aftermarket parts on market, FAI, ET-Engineteam and others, those are very questionable ...

http://catalogue.faiauto.com/parts/TCK212NG

http://catalogue.bgautomotive.co.uk/Products?type=Part&id=425730

http://catalogue.bgautomotive.co.uk/Products?type=Part&id=437287

https://www.ksmotorshop.com/article-detail/view/en/123808

https://www.ebay.de/itm/RS0043-Steuerkettensatz-Audi-A3-Skoda-VW-Passat-1-8TSI-CDAA-BZB-BYT-2006-/252724179654?hash=item3ad788f2c6:g:8JsAAOSw241Yeg5P

https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_odkw=TCK212NG&LH_ItemCondition=3&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XTCK212NG.TRS0&_nkw=TCK212NG&_sacat=0

https://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=06H105209AT&rt=nc&LH_ItemCondition=3&_trksid=p2045573.m1684

 

Chinese IMALE, counterfeit of MAHLE brand ...

https://www.ebay.de/itm/EA888-1-8T-2-0T-Motor-Steuerkette-Setzen-Fuer-VW-Jetta-Passat-AUDI-/152664151796?hash=item238b7e16f4%3Ag%3ArOMAAOSwjn9ZkmqQ&nma=true&si=3%2BAm8gfOJtbkiYneR%2FUGkMJde%2Fk%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

FAI kit after 6500km ...

Edited 14 June, 2018 by rayx

[rayx]

Oh, now I see I mixed two separate cases, rorozsa1 who posted that list of parts and safari hunter who posted the photos ... Sorry

But as I see now in history both have MY2012, that is sad evidence that even later MY of 1.8 TSI (2.0 TSI EA888 Stage2/Gen2 are the same ...) are affected with bad design of "improved" 2mm (previously just 1,5mm) but still only drilled oil control rings which can not cope the massive EGR action leading to muddy black engine oil ...

 

According following info pistons 40 761 600 should be fitted with slotted oil control rings, so be sure you check it before engine assembly.

http://vwts.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=192986&view=findpost&p=2807259

old

 

new

 

The only thing what confuses me now is the pistons at safari hunter´s engine does not seem to have black coated pins, which are on 23mm versions without bushings, I see it more as silver ones used on 21mm versions with bushings. Could you please measure the height of oil control rings on old pistons together with diameter of pin? Thanks

 

Just as info, 21mm vs 23mm

 

21mm

 

23mm

Edited 14 June, 2018 by rayx

[safari hunter]

Rayx @ yes these were the pistons installed as the picture confirm it. Engine is now complete reassembled and will take 2-3 more days to have the car back.

Overall repair cost with new water pump, new clutch assembly and engine parts up 3500E.

[rayx]

Well, hope you got the pistons with slotted oil control ring and not any old stock

Concerning con rods, what was wrong with old ones that you needed set 06J198401H of new ones?

[safari hunter]

Old fashioned pistons diameter was 21 mm , new pistons come with 23 mm con rods.

[rayx]

Well, concerning this I wrote summary in post above. So what year and month is your car/engine that you got 21mm?

[safari hunter]

Week 20-22 / MY 2010 as far as i remember.

VIN TMBAB73T3B9006113

 

 

Edited 14 June, 2018 by safari hunter

[davetheosteopath]

Greetings!

 

Just read through this interesting and somewhat horrifying post.  I picked up a 1.8 2011 Superb a couple of weeks back, 64K miles.  It has the CDAA Engine in it.  Seems ok except for a hesitation to throttle response from tick over upwards if gently depressed where the revs drop and then then the EMU recovers it before a stalls (usually).  Dealer has offered a warranty and I've just has the car assessed by an Indie who says (and has shown me) a problem with the PCV  and this is due to be replaced.  I've only done roughly 800 mile and oil consumption, at present, doesn't seem a problem although fuel consumption seems lousy (haven't calculated it yet).

 

A couple of questions from a newbie:

 

How do I find out more tech detail on the engine? e.g. Production MY month etc? Which timing chain tensioner etc?

Is there any known connection between PCV failure and the more serious\catastrophic failures of Rings and Timing Chains?

Any ideas on the prevalence of this sort of problem and are these models\engines just "Ticking Time Bombs"?  There may be an option to reject the vehicle although probably difficult.

 

Thanks in advance

[safari hunter]

Hi Dave TO @ after discussing with CDAA owners that went to horrifying process (the repair) there are some common features that will trigger the engine failure:

(1) oil consumption over the recommended limit (500 ml / 1000 Km). To me it accelerated from 500 ml to 800 ml in less than 10K km. Previously I tried as you can read on my posts to change oil quality, add additives to increase oil viscosity but none of that helped significantly. You can use a bore-scope  to inspect the combustion chamber for excessive slag deposits as you can see in my pictures. Also you can observe abnormal cylinder wear .

(2) engine hesitation can be induced also by the condition of spark plugs when clogged with oil ashes or in my case with melted electrodes due to excessive temperature generated by hydrocarbons presence (gasoline and large amount of oil remaining in the chamber due to faulty oil ring (see piston 1 picture for oil ring condition compared with 2/3/4).

(3) PCV valve can contribute to an increased oil consumption and erratic engine running at lower rpm when is not functional but slag built up should not be significant as well the amount of oil consumed by the engine.

Greater chances to restore the engine to its original condition is to find a very good workshop that is capable to perform this repair with certified quality parts, and to decide to initiate the repair before any catastrophic failure arise.

 

Edited 15 June, 2018 by safari hunter

[rayx]

12 hours ago, safari hunter said:

Week 20-22 / MY 2010 as far as i remember.

 

Well, in this case you could use pistons 40 251 600 instead and save for new con rods. Just as notice, new piston 40 761 600 is smaller in diameter of 0,03mm.

Anyway, engine fix sorted for now, wish you trouble free drive

[safari hunter]

Thank you Rayx, engine is back on car and Tuesday will be roadworthy for an initial evaluation. 

[safari hunter]

The first 200 km after the repair, the engine goes well, the clutch firmly engages, all the dismantled parts put in place and functional
(headlamps / AC / radiators, etc.). The behavior of the engine at startup and operation is the same as when I bought the car (7 km).
oil temperature rises to max. 102 C, before it reached 106 C. Tomorrow I have a 500 km trip and then in weekend an additional 2000 km trip.
At 3000-4000 km I will make the first oil consumption assessment and I will replace  engine oil. Current oil   Castrol 5W30 FST LL03 + 100 ml Metabond Eco.

 

Edited 20 June, 2018 by safari hunter

[safari hunter]

2500 K km from repair, excellent run , great feeling to drive and most important oil level unchanged, not even by 1 mm.

Edited 24 June, 2018 by safari hunter

[TheRobinK]

Excellent news!

[safari hunter]

Castrol Edge 5W30 FST oil change with filter. No leaks, no errors no problem at all.

[safari hunter]

6000 Km and everything about the repair is great as it should be. Oil level unchanged, not even 1 mm less on the dipstick.

Edited 21 August, 2018 by safari hunter

[safari hunter]

Now 10.000 km oil level unchanged, maybe 1 mm on the deep stick up to 100 ml of oil, but I suspect the oil temperature in relation with volume expansion (0,0007) when making the readings.  Enjoy driving and consider to change oil at every 10000 km.

Edited 28 November, 2018 by safari hunter

[safari hunter]

Update - now 20K km everything runs great.