I have a small question for all you people out there :wave:

I have been reading the forums since March, which proves to be a little problem for me. The reason is that after my 3 months of vRS hood I'm getting used to the power and with reading the forums a little extra seems to be within the reach of everyone.

Unfortunately I am a little limited as to what I can do, esp in the bhp arena (insurance ).

But I was thinking earlier, I remember seeing something about the area under the curve (torque or power) being v important. How are the power and torque related? Is it possible to increase say the torque and not the power? Can you extend the rev range that both are available on the std engine?

What are the limitations if you go for maximal area rather than top bhp?

Thanks all.

Keoghan

Keoghan

Unfortunatly they both go hand in hand,due to the fact that the vRS is Turbo charged - most increases come from a slight tweak to fuelling and boost pressure.As far as I am aware it would not be possible to increase torque alone by remap - torque alone is usually effected by engine capacity - as the yankee doodles say" there ain't no stubstitute for cubes" -- i.e the larger the engine capacity-the larger the torque(twisting) power is.

Torque is what gives acceleration BHP is what gives ultimate top speed.

Keoghan,

unfortunately Dave is right on the torque/power side. However not all is lost.

If you were to have a remap Liverpool Victoria insurance supposedly don't penalise you for this; they would only increase your premium if you increase the engine capacity.

I'll be ringing them for a quote soon although I haven't been penalised greatly by DL ;

I'm afraid engine torque and horsepower (a good measure of wheel torque) are directly connected in a mathematical formula which also includes revs and a constant which I won't bother you with.

The upshot of it all is that high torque and relatively low max revs (say 300 Nm and 6000 rpm - like in our 1.8T) equals low torque and relatively high max revs (say 200 Nm and 9000 rpm - like Honda VTEC engines). With the latter being able to use shorter gearing, both will give the same amount of hp and will be equally fast. So extending the torque band up the rev range will automatically lead to more hp.

Example: a Formula 1 car has a measly 300 Nm of engine torque but will deliver it at 19,000 rpm, leading to 850 hp. The Phaeton V10 TDI has a monumental 800 Nm of engine torque but a very small rev range, leading to much less hp.

So theoretically you could remap the 1.8T as if it were a diesel but the engine would run out of steam very quickly, making it undriveable and slow with a 5-speed box and the wrong gearing.

A remap would be possible that would not neccesarily increase the peak numbers, but would increase the duration in terms of the torque ie the area under the curve.

Talk to your insurers, most are very understanding (ie they don't try to rob you blind for it, just partially sighted). Failing that, wait for renewal time and switch to a mod friendly insurer

Jon

Thanks everyone, I will wait until renewal and see what mod friendly insurers can offer me

Dutch4x4 - any chance of sharing the formula (kinda interests me)

cheers

keoghan

Power and Torque for Dummies

Explains it very well.

Jon

Thanks Jon

It makes alot more sense now

:cheers:

Keoghan

Unfortunately lets itself down by using "is comprised of" within the first two sentences. I can't be @rsed to read any more after that ...

Winds me up as well Nick - my previous boss really used to p*ss me off by changing my use of comprises to include the "of"!! I had to give up in the end as he refused to believe I was correct even when I presented him with dictionaries etc.

Article is still useful though

unfortunately liverpool victoria won't insure me as there is a minimum age limit of 25 for the vRS :(

Ah well, I'll keep looking around but may have to wait a year or so.

K

Originally posted by KentStu in this post

Winds me up as well Nick - my previous boss really used to p*ss me off by changing my use of comprises to include the "of"!! I had to give up in the end as he refused to believe I was correct even when I presented him with dictionaries etc.

Article is still useful though

Aha! A man after mine own heart. No doubt the use of spurious apostrophe's (sic) annoys you too ...... :p

PS I did finish reading the article, too, although I had read it before.

A nice read - the bicycle analogy is spot-on, I often use it too to explain why that good old saying "Power sells cars but torque wins races" is total and utter crap...

Horsepower is the best measure for a car's ultimate speed.

want more power and want to make the car more fun to drive but can't afford the hike in insurance?

***Cough*** try www.revotechnik.com

simple don't tell em;)

further on this,I have done a little search on here for all things REVO related and threads seem few and far between. Just wondering why this was?

There are a few REVO tuned cars but mainly people seem to have gone for Jabba or APR.

As for misleading your insurance company - a big risk. If your car is written off and they do discover you have made a modification without notifying them - no insurance and hence no payout. Likewise if you write off somebody else's car, no insurance=no payout, other insurance company sues you - possibility of jail for driving without insurance.

As far as I see it these days its a straight choice between either Revo or Jabba,I used to be Apr tuned and it is simply not in the same league as either.

They both give roughly the same outputs but differ slightly with how they go about the tuning etc.

Had this arguement loads of times with people asking do you tell the insurance about REVO.

IMHO I Think you would be crazy to tell them about it though as there is phsically no parts that are changed(ie no soldered in chip)and you can switch back to stock whereas with jabba you will always have a soldered in chip.

visit www.seatcupra.net/forums for more info as we have REVO on site as well as APR(awesome gti) to answer any questions you may have.

BTW-The insurance inspector would have to go to great lengths to find the revo software as its not detectable with any VAG diagnostic tools 1551 or1552.

At the end of the day it all boils down to how guilty is your conscience and if you were to be involved in the unfortunate.

Just because you can get away with something doesn't mean you should though...

Rob.

Deejay - Revo (Kev) is on here too. I'm sure if he feels he needs to he'll chip in.

As to whether it's detectable - that's not the point, as Rob says.

And the last thing you do before they cut you out of the car is to frantically try and get your SPS plugged in so you can switch your program back, is it .... ?

Each to his own...

Originally posted by ncarring in this post

Deejay - Revo (Kev) is on here too. I'm sure if he feels he needs to he'll chip in.

As to whether it's detectable - that's not the point, as Rob says.

And the last thing you do before they cut you out of the car is to frantically try and get your SPS plugged in so you can switch your program back, is it .... ?

Each to his own...

"if" the car was a right off though why would you want to switch it back to stock anyhow????

the code is unreadable in either mode stock or performance!

(dont think you will get revo answering questions like this though as they say its up to you what you do with your insurance they just tell you what the software does)

Each to there own i suppose,like you say if you can get insurance for the tuning,get insured fully but with the extortionate prices around these days some of us have to resort to these measures.

BTW-im not one of them however living where I do,being under 25 and having a bloody quick heavily modded car had me thinking for a sec though.

getting away from this arguement for a sec though revo is top I suggest you all try b4 you buy anything else,in the form of the 5 hour demo!

Hello REVO Kev me old mucker

if you read this:Can we still meet up for a few beers and do the ARB's and stuff when you return from Germany,will prolly see you at Rocky on Sunday anyhow.(may have brakes and IC by then too;) )

Dan

ps-never had chance to say what a top site this is,hope you don't mind an outsider to much?

Originally posted by Deejay in this post

......and you can switch back to stock......

I believe that stock is not the same as the original programme. Further, it is as easy for those who know how to tell that this is so as it is to identify electronically that the Jabba programme is not the original programme either. In the case of Jabba chipping, there is physical evidence that the original chip has been replaced, whereas that is not the case with the REVO tuning. But I am sure that an insurance company has the wherewithall to identify that a car had been REVO'd as easily as one had been Jabba'd.

I fully agree with previous warnings about not telling your insurer. If the worst came to the worst, you would be blacklisted - and not just for car insurance.

PS: Programme = code.

Didn't Paul have a bad experience with the Revo demo when it reverts back to the stock map??. What was the outcome of that??

I don't believe he was the only one who had that "problem" either. I'll need to do a search to find who the other one was though.

I know that a couple of guys had the 5 hour demo and I think one of overseas "brothers" has been REVOed.

Generally speaking I think most here have gone the Jabba route from recommendation plus the added incentive of a discount.

It's interesting that, and I think I'm correct, that REVO is highly recommended on CupraNet. Obviously here the majority of remaps are done by JabbaSport. Just goes to show that you can't beat personal recommendation.

Glad that you're enjoying the site and your contributions are more than welcome.

On the insurance side I decided to declare my mods and fortunately it had minimal effect on my premium. At the end of the day though it personal choice and how you view risk.

Cheers.

Adrian.

p.s wasn't going to mention anything about the trial "issues". Gunnie had the trial version and exhibited the same symptoms as Paul's. I think there was also a Leon Cupra as well. Don't know if this is a trial version issue.

you must be talking about the adaptation period of the ecu.

this can take roughly 20 miles worth of driving to clear.

It can also happen when you change fuel with ie ron 95 to ron 98

sometimes it happens when revo tuned peeps do this and change the timing range with an sps3.

It wasn't just adaptation I believe.