At what point does a hatchback become a hot hatch? Is it simply reaching a particular power output?

What do you think?

It has to go, handle, stop and be practical, it also has to put a smile on your face every time you go out in it.

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Thanks James, so based on today's standard anything around the 200bhp mark will be considered a hot hatch.

Of course taking the driving characteristics into account too

Think mine ticks all those boxes !!

yes, much more than 200bhp though the front wheels for everyday is excess.

Struck me trading evo last month that the current hot hatch benchmarks are 260bhp and circa 6s 0-60. Not that long ago it was 150bhp and 8s (anyone remember the rs2000 ad in which it was a "patient" and the dr tweaked it to 150bhp?)

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don't the insurance companies rate it on how much the power to weight ratio is?

the mk1 golf gti was a hot hatch, and that set the benchmark by which everything else was judged, the mk4 golf gti with the same 115bhp power output is pathetic in comparison.

This is what Wikipedia say.

Hot hatch (shortened from hot hatchback) is a high-performance derivative of a car body style consisting of a three- or five-door hatchback automobile.

Vehicles of this class are based on family-oriented automobiles, and are equipped with an uprated more powerful internal combustion engine, improved suspension, and may also include additional 'aerodynamic' body parts and larger wheels and tyres. Front-mounted petrol engines, together with front-wheel drive, is the most common powertrain layout, although some can be specified as diesel-powered, and rear or four-wheel drive hot hatches are also available.

Way back when, a hot hatch was a special, often released later than the normal models in the range which went from poverty to luxury spec., and sold as the seriously sporty variant with better performance and handling.

These days the distinctions are blurred, not least because higher performance engines are available in a larger proportion of the models in a range, stylistic cues such as over-sized wheels and stupidly low-profile tyres are used to sell the whole range, and manufacturers found that the market for image and bragging rights is much larger than the market for performance motoring.

Renault

If you ever owned a williams, cliosport or meganesport you will know what i mean.

Should also be relatively cheap imho. A bit debatable with the offerings these days.

It has to be petrol! A tractor engine in a supposidely hot hatch is just wrong!

It has to be petrol! A tractor engine in a supposidely hot hatch is just wrong!

Yep i would go further and say it needs to rev to around 5-7.5k that counts out most diesels.

Classic trait of a hot hatch is ability to ring its neck through every gear. Doesn't need loads

of low down torque just be happy to rev. Diesels run out of puff to quickly to make good hot hatches IMO.

In this weeks "Classic Car Weekly" there is a feature on the Vauxhall Astra GTE Mk 2 from the mid 80's.

This was quite the dogs bits in its day & with a 0-60 of 8 secs (ish) was considered very rapid indeed.

It was THE benchmark hot hatch of its time.

In this weeks "Classic Car Weekly" there is a feature on the Vauxhall Astra GTE Mk 2 from the mid 80's.

This was quite the dogs bits in its day & with a 0-60 of 8 secs (ish) was considered very rapid indeed.

It was THE benchmark hot hatch of its time.

Like most 'hot' Vauxhalls it was fast in a straight line. but never inspired confidence on the twisties.

In this weeks "Classic Car Weekly" there is a feature on the Vauxhall Astra GTE Mk 2 from the mid 80's.

This was quite the dogs bits in its day & with a 0-60 of 8 secs (ish) was considered very rapid indeed.

It was THE benchmark hot hatch of its time.

My m8 had a 16v, as said was awesome in a straight line but crap in corners as his dad found out by going straight over a roundabout requiring a new shell which the insurance company paid for lol. Unfortunately it was never the same after that and it conveniently got nicked and burnt soon after

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My own view would be an accessible purchase price, enough power to be brisk and fun and small and chuckable with precise handling and an involving driver experience. I would not say my Mk1 Fabia VRS is a hot hatch as the handling is lousy (it is completely standard) but a Renault Twingo Sport would be becaue it is cheap, reasonably rapid and handles well. I would also say the Previous Renault Clio Sports are hot hatches as they meet all these criteria, particularly involvment but the new one, from my reading of autocar, probably does not as it has a rather slow dual clutch box (no manual option) so they say and is rather uninvolving despite being quick and grippy. The question is very subjective however and I am sure many would disagree with me

IMO the golf GTI defined the brand. So whatever the current GTI is defines what a hot hatch is.

What does that make the Golf R then? This is where the lines get blurred. Some smaller cars seem to manage on slightly less power than a GTI so in theory can still be hot hatches IMO.

I think the bottom line is fun and practical. I always think of FWD when thinking of hot hatches but i would still consider a powerful diesel to be a hot hatch as they can still be fun and are actually even more practical as good MPG are also possible.

Something just powerful enough to get the heart racing but not so powerful that it cant be fully exploited on normal roads so it doesnt need to be a track monster.

In terms of hard stats i would guess a 0-60 of around 8.5 secs or less would suffice and top speed is pretty pointless so 130mph would do. Needs to be FWD but IMO a hot hatch should be a manual.

I prefer Autos myself but if i wanted a hot hatch i would get a manual. Petrol would be my preference also but as said a diesel would do.

I would actually class some of the extreme models of some manufacturers as above hot hatch status now - i.e Focus RS, Astra VXR, Golf R, Audi S3 etc. Not sure what you would class these cars as but i would say the slightly lowered powered versions of each of these are more like hot hatches i.e Focus ST, Astra Sport (whatever its called, has 200bhp), Golf GTI and Audi 2.0tsi s-line.

Surely the Renault 5 Alpine / Gordini was the first hot hatch? Although i would agree that the Golf GTI dominated the genre and is still what most people think of when Hothatch is mentioned and the benchmark, that and the PUG 205 1.9 gti. The williams IMO better than both although later and had good ques and building block to start from. New so called hot hatches for me are too powerfull and too heavy to be even called 'hot hatches' all though the terminology of the words does still apply the design ethos is very different.

Who says a hot hatch needs to be fwd lol. I don't like Clarkson at all but he is right here

IMO

Must look good

Handle well

Quick (200bhp~)

Affordable

Something that when you think of it you picture it hitting the apex of a bend on a track with the nuts revving off it...

Although the Octavia is a hatch and has 200hp. I would say its too big to be a proper hot hatch. I'd class it as more if a mini GT car.

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Renault

If you ever owned a williams, cliosport or meganesport you will know what i mean.

I know what you mean, HEADGASKETS, Williams was a pig for head gasket trouble.

Golf GTi or Pug 205 GTi, Renault 5 was troublesome with evaporation issues and I see the sunbeam above, lotus version was good but twitchy.

If I could go back in time it would be a MK I Golf GTi or a 205 GTi

I did have an Astra GTE MK I but it rotted away, engine was good but nowhere nears as nimble as the pug or VW

I reckon big bhp, above average torque and most importantly the

systems required to get the power down be by trick diff, electronics or awd.

Better still a combination of all of them.

I love hot hatches, it's why I bought my Audi.

Looking forward to giving mine a bit more oomph later in the year.