Fed up with talk talk

[2SkodaFamily]

Talk Talk are now officially getting on my tits.

I this this is the third or fourth router I've had from them, and there's always something the new one will do that the old one wouldn't, but then not do something that the old one did.

The latest episode is that the router was changed a while ago because I couldn't do AirPrint from the old one. The new router manages to do AirPrint ok but has brought with it the unreliable connections that meant I changed the first two routers.

It says something that I now have the iPad and two mobile phones running on 3G instead of using the wifi at home. The ADSL, Internet and Wifi lights are all on but there's no data going back & forward.

So..... As Talk Talk as generally reluctant to investigate any faults, I'm looking for a new provider. I hear BT are the ones to really avoid. Thinking of Sky because I already have Sky TV, but I hear mixed reports from them as well.

Plusnet, as I'm in Yorkshire?

[Macdemon]

Do Virgin Media cover your area??

I think they provide a great service at an affordable cost, and I have VERY few probs with them.

[2SkodaFamily]

Do Virgin Media cover your area??

I think they provide a great service at an affordable cost, and I have VERY few probs with them.

I don't think they do but I'll check.....

[Harry1212]

I had the same problem last year, I use my own wireless router so TalkTalk tried to blame the issue on that, they sent me one of there own crappy ones and same problem

the TalkTalk forum is quite useful and you get replies almost instantly during the day

I had to go into my routers settings and post some data on the forum and the moderator/TalkTalk technician changed the profile on my home connection and that sorted out the issue straight away

connection has also been faster and more stable since

Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk

[Avalon]

Talk Talk are useless. Sky is unlimited, no traffic shaping, no throttling as long as you are in an LLU area. If you're not go with BT.

[2SkodaFamily]

Talk Talk are useless. Sky is unlimited, no traffic shaping, no throttling as long as you are in an LLU area. If you're not go with BT.

Are they reliable though?

[Avalon]

I'd not have recommended them if they weren't. I've had zero downtime with Sky and the speeds have been constant, if you can't get Sky LLU then the next best option is BT.

[GentleGiant]

ISPReview.co.uk

(Still laughing at the suggestion BT is good).

Back to the original post : free routers are worth EXACTLY what you pay for them - NOTHING!!

If you are having issues GO OUT AND BUY A DECENT ONE. Personally, I use TPLink, and have been very happy with all 3 of their routers I have bought over the last 5-6 years, even the budget one I bought for use in China.

[Avalon]

Did you read the quote you posted? They complained about the router, not the isp but you base your idea that the ISP is poor on that? You sir are a genius

BT (now they have dropped the caps) are a decent proposition especially on fibre, yes the home hub had issues, so did virgins super hub or pretty much any other ISP's hardware at some stage. The thing is we're on a Skoda forum, a brand that 15 years ago was considered awful, you still get 'special' people who don't understand its now a VW in disguise. Products change over time and they do so a lot quicker in the tech market.

[GentleGiant]

Avalon, the ONLY person stating TT are useless is YOU!!

(Although I tend to agree)

The problem with BT is the same problem EE and TT have - poor technical support; as long as nothing goes wrong you will get a decent service, but heaven help you when something goes wrong that cannot be fixed by "switching it off and on again", or swapping the ADSL filter.

[mannyo]

Been with Sky LLU for 3 years, never had any problems even with their free router.

Dad has BT Infinity 2, he has had one minor issue which was all sorted very efficiently when he spoke to customer services.

I'll shortly be switching to BT Infinity2 as well, leaving Sky behind, only because I get 6 meg with Sky, but Infinity 2 will get me 73meg at my current location. The current BT unlimited offerings are truly unlimited and have no FUP or throttling / traffic shaping applied at all.

[Huskoda]

Something I've noticed that a lot of people don't seem to realise is that you don't have to go with BT to have fibre. All ISPs can resell it just like they do ADSL.

[Avalon]

Avalon, the ONLY person stating TT are useless is YOU!!

(Although I tend to agree)

The problem with BT is the same problem EE and TT have - poor technical support; as long as nothing goes wrong you will get a decent service, but heaven help you when something goes wrong that cannot be fixed by "switching it off and on again", or swapping the ADSL filter.

It wasn't talk talk I was referring to, they are useless in pretty much any meaningful measurement you care to use apart from price (complaints, average speed etc.) it was the BT comment and pasting an ISP review based on a router.

BT's first line tech support is slightly better than useless but having worked in the industry and knowing some of the people they employ, the main function they have is to keep the percentage of calls answered (PCA 30/60 etc) stats high because that's one of the stats the key performance indicators, AHT (call time) low (turn it off/on) and filter out the user error calls (that's the majority) before 2nd line become involved with genuine faults that need diagnostics doing. It's the same with most first line set-ups within the industry and it's even worse when first line is outsourced.

For example the company I worked for was reasonably good at first line, you had people with a genuine interest in the products and good level of technical understanding of the network as a whole. We took over another company who had a similar set-up, it was only then we found out why it's customers slated tech support, the 1st line had to follow a diagnostics script, it was painful. It didn't matter if they knew the resolution at the start of the call, they still had to do x number of steps, more frustratingly they could easily resolve the fault but still had to stage some over to 2nd line because if they didn't follow the script/process they lost the call monitoring bonus. Yes the company actually encouraged technical support not to resolve issues. Want to change the script? 4-6 week roll out time. Want to change the process? 3+ months.

Think of 1st line for the majority of ISP's is little more than a buffer to generate stats and remove the majority of user error calls, at best they have the ability to perform the most basic checks and even those with the aptitude to do more are not given anything like the level of access required to do more.

Something I've noticed that a lot of people don't seem to realise is that you don't have to go with BT to have fibre. All ISPs can resell it just like they do ADSL.

Yes but who's actually installing you, who's equipment are you connected with and who's got what in the cab/exchange/handles the back haul?

Take the Sky fibre profile issues, Sky blamed BT, BT blamed Sky, users suffered for months and BT's own customers were unaffected.

Edited 14 May, 2013 by Avalon

[2SkodaFamily]

What's the Sky router like? How many Ethernet ports does it have? I have the router next to my Sky box and DVD player, both of which are connected to ethernet ports on my current router.

The other thing that annoyed me about the latest router swap from talktalk is that the number of ports went from 4 to 2!

[GentleGiant]

I didnt paste a review, I posted a REVIEW SITE, in reply to your statement that "BT is the next best option"

BT, EE, et al, front line filtering of stupid callers would be great if that then meant talking to someone who was actually competent, but this rarely happens.

A friend was an early adopter of BT Infinity, and he had no end of issues getting them to come and sort out a regular loss of service (faulty Infinity box). Total Fault time about 3 months.

My sister and I both experienced identical faults (at different exchanges), a few years back; my (small independent) ISP went through the fault finding template with me, agreed there was a strange fault and got a BT engineer out to check my line within a couple of days; when that failed to find the issue, they got another engineer out to check the exchange - and found a duff DSLAM (A whole bunch of duff Fujitsu jobs got installed around the UK). Total fault time 10 days.

My sister (with Orange) spent 18 months going around in circles and accumulated a whole box of replacement "Frogs" and newer wireless routers (as did several of her neighbours), before Orange got a BT engineer to visit the exchange (and find another of the duff Fujitsu DSLAMs).

Edited 14 May, 2013 by GentleGiant

[Aspman]

I've heard a few horror stories about TT.

I switched from BT to Plusnet earlier in the year (yes same parent I know). No issues at all. Free router is crap but I can stick in my own if I want.

Know of plenty of people with Sky mostly they are happy.

[Huskoda]

Yes but who's actually installing you, who's equipment are you connected with and who's got what in the cab/exchange/handles the back haul?

Yes, that's why I put 'resell' in my comment. The hardware may be the same, but you get different people on the tech support line, billing is different etc. My ISP has excellent actually technical people on the end of the phone and the couple of times I've had to call up they were incredibly helpful, never read a script and just got straight on with getting it fixed when I told them I'd tried the usual stuff, without asking me to repeat it for them.

[Welsh_kai_boy]

I've heard a few horror stories about TT.

I switched from BT to Plusnet earlier in the year (yes same parent I know). No issues at all. Free router is crap but I can stick in my own if I want.

Know of plenty of people with Sky mostly they are happy.

Why is it crap? is it a TG582n?

[FlintstoneR1]

I've been a TT phone and broadband customer for some years now. Yes the 1st line phone support is worse than useless. By contrast their online user forum and the tech advice it holds is generally excellent. You also get access to TT techies in there who do actually know their stuff and can fix most problems. MUCH better than joining a queue on an 0845 number!

I experienced a similar saga to the OP early on. Working my way up through a series of Huawei "free" routers. One would be good at the wifi end, with a strong signal throught the house, but crXp at managing the exchange line on the LLU - constant drop outs. The next (router) would have the opposing "qualities". Good at managing signal:noise etc. but wifi weak enough you had to be with 1m to get a signal! Kind of defeats the object! Then another that did neither. Until the online forum techie rustled me up a D-Link. THAT did an acceptable job for around 2 years. Not 100% at either aspect, but good enough to handle all my daily "work from home" requirements and a family with 3 laptops sharing a wifi printer and 3 smart phones all banging away. UNTIL my teenagers started to do a lot more on iPlayer. Although the line bandwidth and speed was 100% fine for me during the day. You really noticed when the schools chucked out and the the whole street (not just my own kids), went on iPlayer at the same time! It helped however to upgrade to the TT+ service with unrestricted bandwidth compared to basic. (You get you pay for - or a cynical marketing manipulation of customers - you decide for yourself?).

That was when I decided to take the plunge and become an early adopter of TT's YouView service in January this year. The guy that came to install the PVR box took one look at the D-Link router, then went back out to his van to bring in "my last decent router" - a HUAWEI HG533 as it happens (looks a bit like a BT Homehub - well in some respects anyway?). It has to said this has been FAULTLESS! Manages all the YouView options and downloads just fine. Well 99% of the time with no drop outs anyway. Plus it's wifi is strong enough and stable enough to allow me to move my work desk and wifi printer out to the far end of my conservatory with 100% reliability and no noticable fall in speed when all four laptops (my SWMBO* now has an iPad as well) are online together, and the TV is doing an iPlayer catch up.

If that hadn't worked, my back up plan was to switch to Plusnet (I'm in Yorkshire too!). But no need now, as the TT service is - just fine! Broadband speed checker comparisons suggest I'm getting twice the line speed of Sky users in my locality. Hope I'm not tempting fate?

[FlintstoneR1]

I've been a TT phone and broadband customer for some years now. Yes the 1st line phone support is worse than useless. By contrast their online user forum and the tech advice it holds is generally excellent. You also get access to TT techies in there who do actually know their stuff and can fix most problems. MUCH better than joining a queue on an 0845 number!

I experienced a similar saga to the OP early on. Working my way up through a series of Huawei "free" routers. One would be good at the wifi end, with a strong signal throught the house, but crXp at managing the exchange line on the LLU - constant drop outs. The next (router) would have the opposing "qualities". Good at managing signal:noise etc. but wifi weak enough you had to be with 1m to get a signal! Kind of defeats the object! Then another that did neither. Until the online forum techie rustled me up a D-Link. THAT did an acceptable job for around 2 years. Not 100% at either aspect, but good enough to handle all my daily "work from home" requirements and a family with 3 laptops sharing a wifi printer and 3 smart phones all banging away. UNTIL my teenagers started to do a lot more on iPlayer. Although the line bandwidth and speed was 100% fine for me during the day. You really noticed when the schools chucked out and the the whole street (not just my own kids), went on iPlayer at the same time! It helped however to upgrade to the TT+ service with unrestricted bandwidth compared to basic. (You get what you pay for - or a cynical marketing manipulation of customers - you decide for yourself?).

That was when I decided to take the plunge and become an early adopter of TT's YouView service in January this year. The guy that came to install the PVR box took one look at the D-Link router, then went back out to his van to bring in "my last decent router" - a HUAWEI HG533 as it happens (looks a bit like a BT Homehub - well in some respects anyway?). It has to said this has been FAULTLESS! Manages all the YouView options and downloads just fine. Well 99% of the time with no drop outs anyway. Plus it's wifi is strong enough and stable enough to allow me to move my work desk and wifi printer out to the far end of my conservatory with 100% reliability and no noticable fall in speed when all four laptops (my SWMBO* now has an iPad as well) are online together, and the TV is doing an iPlayer catch up.

If that hadn't worked, my back up plan was to switch to Plusnet (I'm in Yorkshire too!). But no need now, as the TT service is - just fine! Broadband speed checker comparisons suggest I'm getting twice the line speed of Sky users in my locality. Hope I'm not tempting fate?

[FlintstoneR1]

Apologies for double post above. System won't let me edit out the offending lump of words?

"Unable to get property "getText" - object is null or undefined."

[Octygone]

Sky....Good.........Plusnet...... good

Talk talk .....BAD ......BT .....even worse

[2SkodaFamily]

@Flintstone - it was the HG533 that was working really well in every aspect except it wouldn't handle AirPrint!

I've tried my own routers. I had two Belkins that were forever cutting out and I borrowed a decent DLink from a friend and that did the same too.

[cheezemonkhai]

Came from BE, via plusnet and onto BT infinity 2.

- Be were fast at the time, but a bit up and down with some routers. They'd really gone a bit off by the time I left them IMHO.

- Plusnet, fine on an ADSL max exchange, not so good on ADSL2+ exchange and the traffic shaping and cap was annoying. But I have to say they did work, albeit a bit slow, and the tech support was better than most for first line. Speaking English was a distinct bonus. Static IP was a nice perk too.

- BT have been very good. Issues resolved, including with the huwawi modem and HH3, but it's back running with the vDSL modem and a draytek, so that's all good too. It's also very fast.

It all depends what you want. Unlimited I'd say BT.

Happy with low to medium useage, not doing anything unusual and fine with a cap, the plusnet are good.

[ScoobyChris]

- Plusnet, fine on an ADSL max exchange, not so good on ADSL2+ exchange and the traffic shaping and cap was annoying. But I have to say they did work, albeit a bit slow, and the tech support was better than most for first line. Speaking English was a distinct bonus. Static IP was a nice perk too.

English?! Isn't their call centre in Yorkshire? I gave up on Plusnet after being a loyal customer for 7 years and watching them grow while the level of service dropped (including comedy traffic shaping/capping) and the price continued to rise, and moved to Sky and then Virgin Media and would rate them both much higher than Plusnet

Chris