Lane Hogging and Tail Gating

[Sippo]

Come's into 'force' today with £100 on the spot fines.

 

Not sure how the old bill will enforce it though. The amount of middle lane drivers on motorways in this country is ridiculous.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23713732

 

[Huskoda]

They can make whatever laws they like, as there's noone to enforce it since they replaced all the police with speed cameras.

 

In principle it gets a thumbsup from me though.

[Coops]

Yes heard on news today - agree that it will be difficult to police but in principle it sounds ok. Had a guy in a Seat Exeo sat in the middle lane last night, I was merrily using lanes 1 and 2 overtaking trucks and pulling back in again, he just sat in the middle, but would he do that if a police car was about?

 

How long is "too long" in the middle lane? Different people have different perceptions of speed.

[AVTUR]

I'm still working on a lightweight mobile vaporizer module to mount on my car, that'll sort 'em all out in double quick time, and they won't be able to re offend once zapped! If only............

[Sippo]

Definitely the way forward. Lane Hoggers cause congestion.

[chicken_eyebrow]

I think it'll be easy enough to enforce, in traffic I'm sure they won't bother but if it's a quiet motorway with some plum sat in lane 2/3 with nothing in lane one then they're fair game.

 

Don't agree with the IAMS comments that training is the only answer rather than fines, I think both are the answer. What's the point of training someone if there's no fine when they don't do it properly?

[Gti Jazz Blue]

Fine, points and enforcement will only work if there is someone to enforce it.

 

How often do you see a Traffic car on the MWay these days ?

 

Though I guess that the unmarked cars with camera enforcement may be the weapon of choice for this one.

 

The tricky one will also be the legal definition of lane hogging, especially if it is challenged in court, I guess they are banking on most just to pay up and take the points.

 

I have also stated in our previous thread my thoughts on the state of repair of some sections of lane 1 from heavy use by 44 tonne trucks - there are some shocking (literally) sections on the network.

[stu_mcl]

Least down there yous still have another lane to overtake the hogger in, if someones lane hogging up here then we end up with about a mile of traffic within a few minuites if its a busy period :(

[sparks03]

Its about time. CLOG have been prevalent for far too long now, along with the clowns that know you're travelling much faster than them in lane three and wait to the last possible second to pull out in front in a supposed overtake. 

 

 Road Captain's license is going to start trembling. 

[KenONeill]

Among the offences police are expected to focus on are:-

1. • Failing to give way at a junction (not requiring evasive action by another driver)
2. • Overtaking and pushing into a queue of traffic
3. • Being in the wrong lane and pushing into a queue on a roundabout

1) Er, if you don't cause someone to evade, then you've complied with a "Give Way" instruction.

2) Doesn't this mean that the car you "pused in front of" was already tailgating? I find my biggest issue with overtaking after people who're moronically following when they could overtake is getting space to break up queues due to tailg!ts.

3) What does this even mean? Is it now an offence to not know every junction on your route, even the non-standard ones, and even when you've never been to $location before?

[sparks03]

1) Er, if you don't cause someone to evade, then you've complied with a "Give Way" instruction.

 

 

Good point well put sir. 

[stever750]

I can see sales of dashcams doubling overnight....

 

Banning lorries and buses from Lanes 2 and 3 at peak times (as they do in Germany for example) would make a huge difference to traffic flow, and stop the tailgating / undertaking / general jostling for position that goes on.

Edited 16 August, 2013 by stever750

[chicken_eyebrow]

3) What does this even mean? Is it now an offence to not know every junction on your route, even the non-standard ones, and even when you've never been to $location before?

 

This could well apply to a roundabout where you approach on a two lane road and the first exit is only one lane, the correct way to take the first exit would be to approach in the left hand lane but if traffic is queueing people will often approach in the right hand lane then try and come off and bully their way into the single lane. Happens a lot in the mornings at a roundabout near me with queueing traffic coming off the A21 going into Tunbridge Wells.

[Thecko]

This could well apply to a roundabout where you approach on a two lane road and the first exit is only one lane, the correct way to take the first exit would be to approach in the left hand lane but if traffic is queueing people will often approach in the right hand lane then try and come off and bully their way into the single lane. Happens a lot in the mornings at a roundabout near me with queueing traffic coming off the A21 going into Tunbridge Wells.

 

And me at a roundabout heading up towards the A56, it's ****ing infuriating. Nothing more than an attitude of: "I've got a big expensive car so you lot should get out of my way because **** you I don't have to obey the rules of the road that's why".

[Aspman]

I'm just waiting on the announcement that £150M will be spend on 'special cameras' to detect this.

 

Coz teknology solves everything.

[Huskoda]

Cameras can already do this. SPECS cameras can tell what lane you're travelling in and if theres another vehicle in the lane to your left.

 

Re: other behaviour, I have at work seen a fine that came in for a van driving past a traffic island on the wrong side because there was an idiot parked blocking the normal road that was taken from normal city CCTV - they sent us the video proof. We had to pay it as we were told two wrongs don't make a right and our van could have turned around and gone another way.

[Ootohere]

There is no Law change just a Bill allowing the Police to do the on the spot fines and the increased amount of the fines.

 

They say Scotland England and Wales, and the Roads Minister talks about still being able to go to court to challenge,

or go on the Courses.

The Association of Professional Drivers are right to call for Common and clear rulings on how to behave across the land,

otherwise it is a Post Code Lottery with different Police Forces.

 

(yesterday i heard a Senior Police Officer say that Aberdeen had doubled there Traffic Police from 5 to 10 Officers.)

 

Well Scotland does not have the Courses, 

The IAM are saying that Under Taking is Illegal, but when traffic is at  halt you can continue in a lane inside that one, 

or you undertake while taking a slip road off a Motorway.

It is pointed out that is where Lanes have distinct markings showing that it is separate, but not all lanes are marked that way.

 

Dogs Dinner of changes in powers to the police.

It is a Cash Generator.

 

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/scottish-police-commit-5-driving-offences-a-week-1-2980583

(that will be how many time caught, not how many offences, just like members of the public.)

 

george

[kilted]

Least down there yous still have another lane to overtake the hogger in, if someones lane hogging up here then we end up with about a mile of traffic within a few minuites if its a busy period :(

I know that feeling - M9/M90 are notorious for it!

[AVTUR]

The IAM are saying that Under Taking is Illegal, but when traffic is at halt you can continue in a lane inside that one,

or you undertake while taking a slip road off a Motorway.

I

george

I think undertaking is defined as moving from an outside lane to an inside lane to 'undertake' a vehicle and then move back to the outside lane, not perhaps as you describe.

[Ootohere]

Correctomundo. you are right that is what it is.

 

And police officers will have to decide were someone is looking ahead 'Hazard Perception', slowing and moving into the inside lane travelling safely,

Avoiding those travelling slowly or stopping, or stopped, and you proceed forward safely but as it turns out even at 60 mph you are passed what was in the outside lane,

then you pull right agin, indicating out to the outside lane, to avoid the even slower possible hazard in front in the inside lane, a HGV or the likes. 

 

All about how soon you move in, how far further on before you move out again.

Lane changing.

Very little of the very few miles of proper Motorway in Scotland has more than 2 lanes,

& where it is, often has Slips on and off coming from the Right & the Left.

 

You move through lanes constantly as you decide if heading North, East, South or West, lane changing to just continue on your route as new lanes appear, then disappear .

Drivers familiar will know that as do the Local Police, Visitors who arrive in this meely for the first time can be totally caught out.

 

For Scotland where between Cities it is Dual Carriageways, Outside lane Hoggers is a major problem.

But ELEPHANT RACING is the worst.

Single Carriageways for many miles like the A9, HGVs etc then you get a stretch of Dual Carriegeway or Crawler Lane and they Elephant Race each other at 50 & 52 MPH, taking the whole Dual Carriagway distance of a ,ile or 2 to complete the pass.

Until they Dual the complete route they want Average Speed Cameras, but this doesnot stop the need to overtake if going 100 miles and being held to 45 mph by Elephant Racers.

 

george

[grr666]

I think it'll be easy enough to enforce, in traffic I'm sure they won't bother but if it's a quiet motorway with some plum sat in lane 2/3 with nothing in lane one then they're fair game.

I do a lot of my distance driving at night, for example when I am

visiting London to see friends or my parents. I drive when it's either

very very late or very very early as even though it's quiet enough at

the Bristol end of my journey it's more or less always busy on the London

end especially the M25 of course. And I usually do the round trip in the same

day so the minimum time spent at the wheel would be about 5-6 hours.

A couple of weeks ago I went down to visit some pals for a 30th birthday do, 

 

(At a Vegan oriental restaurant who dreamt that load of old pony up????

it was the dinner equivalent of a tribute band. It was food, but not the real thing...)

 

after the meal I drove back from Barnet to Bristol. (I took the van because I wasn't

guaranteed a parking spot when I got to Barnet) Leaving at 11.30pm I managed to

stay away from the M25 and opted for the A406>>A40>>M40 and just 1 junction

on the M25 to get me onto the road home in this case the M4. 

 

The M4 was very very quiet. In fact so quiet that even in the van not one single

vehicle passed me between Junction 4b and Junction 18. I was making steady

but good progress maintaining a speed of 80ish and using the lanes properly

all the way along the motorway. I am not kidding when I say that I must have

encountered at least 20 middle lane hoggers who I would move right out to lane 3

to pass and then back to lane 1 to continue. In terms of percentage that number of

20 probably accounts for approx one third of the vehicles I passed whilst on the M4

on that particular journey. The thing is there are often patrol cars on the M4.

 

I've regularly seen them and even been pulled by one about 8 years ago for not

wearing a seatbelt. But these middle lane captains stand out like a sore thumb

when the roads are empty and will be definitely getting pulled when the roads are quiet.

It's a harder offence to spot when the roads are congested, and I tend to find that it's

usually women or elderly drivers who do it during daylight hours.

   

Driving down to London in the early evening a few weeks ago again in the van I was

flabbergasted to see a young girl in a red Citroen C1 DRLs blazing doing the middle

lane moron routine. She would travel as fast as she could passing me driving on Lane 1 

several times doing about 90 I'd guess. But as soon as she encountered for instance a

coach overtaking a lorry and her lane was blocked, she'd just sit behind the obstacle  

until it pulled back in again and then the foot would go down again.

 

Unlike her I'd see up ahead this rolling roadblock about to happen and move out

from lane 1 to lane 3 to avoid it and passing her in the process. So despite her max speed  

being higher than mine, my average speed was greater than hers due to better observation

and the willingness to use all the lanes as required. After a few of these 'her passing me  

then getting stuffed up behind something which I saw and passed' exchanges I eventually

left her far behind despite travelling at a lower top speed.

[Aspman]

@Grr666

If you'd said it was a 1 series I'd have said it was my SWMBO.

That's her in a nutshell. Foot flat to the floor going nowhere fast.

[Fidget]

On a similar note, I regularly drive on a road that has limits of 30/60/30/60/40 mph in that order, I'm endlessly stuck behind people who inist on doing 40 in every zone, or someone up my rear in the 30 who's nowhere to be seen in the 60, only to be right there again in the next 30/40. No one's perfect, but that grind my gears

[KenONeill]

On a similar note, I regularly drive on a road that has limits of 30/60/30/60/40 mph in that order, I'm endlessly stuck behind people who inist on doing 40 in every zone, or someone up my rear in the 30 who's nowhere to be seen in the 60, only to be right there again in the next 30/40. No one's perfect, but that grind my gears

I've had that a few times, including once a "Rover 200 BRM". Since there were only about 200 of those made, I think it's safe to conclude it was the same guy all the time.

[stever750]

On a similar note, I regularly drive on a road that has limits of 30/60/30/60/40 mph in that order, I'm endlessly stuck behind people who inist on doing 40 in every zone, or someone up my rear in the 30 who's nowhere to be seen in the 60, only to be right there again in the next 30/40. No one's perfect, but that grind my gears

 

Yup, the school run brigade are adept at this, plus most of the population over the age of 65. Lord help I lose so much awareness of my surroundings that I drive so poorly, and frankly age is no excuse for tolerance of incompetence.