I disagree with the people who go against the DSG , I will never buy a manual again, the important thing is to LIVE with the DSG , not just test it .... I doubt most of you would buy a Ferrari or Aston or merc ect with the manual option...

To address the argument of involvement, I've just driven ashs citygo 450 miles down to Cornwall, and although its great fun, handles really well, had great grip , and a lovely engine note, and the gear change is one of the best I've tried, it's a lively box, I got absolutely nothing out of changing gears manually to increase my enjoyment.... Not like blipping the box down 3 gears with the paddles approaching a sharp corner, blipping it back up on the exit, all keeping both hands on the wheel for steering control, then when stuck in the inevitable motorway q, putting in auto....

 

I like DSG, BUT having driven manuals since 17 I struggle to adjust when 'the brain takes over' 

 

I did an emergency stop on the M4 in my Gti edition 30..... by mistake!! 

 

Very scary, and very lucky not to cause an accident, scared the life out of me. 

 

This is obviously a fundamental problem with me and not DSG, and I really enjoyed DSG when pressing on

Here's the rub though, 95% of the time the performance of either of the 105bhp Monte's is more than enough in the real world, with very cheap insurance, road tax, good Mpg and demonstrably better looks than the Vrs. Skoda have clearly got it right, as they've sold loads of Monte's (compared to Vrs's) 

 

If you're driving 'flat out' more than 5% of the time then you're going to be in trouble sooner or later.

 

re the Sheep in wolf's clothing point, I'm not saying I'd want a Monte over a Vrs.... I'm just saying that sales figures don't lie

Here's the rub though, 95% of the time the performance of either of the 105bhp Monte's is more than enough in the real world, with very cheap insurance, road tax, good Mpg and demonstrably better looks than the Vrs. Skoda have clearly got it right, as they've sold loads of Monte's (compared to Vrs's) 

 

If you're driving 'flat out' more than 5% of the time then you're going to be in trouble sooner or later.

 

re the Sheep in wolf's clothing point, I'm not saying I'd want a Monte over a Vrs.... I'm just saying that sales figures don't lie

All fair, but it should still be called a Monte is my point.

..........not a VRS

I also accept that there are more 320D BMW's are sold than M3's. I am not critiquing the Monte or saying the VRS is perfect, what I am saying is that both occupy the right space in the line up. Should the VRS be changed for something else, I would personally just like to see it stay 'hot' rather than go 'warm' then we can choose whether we want Monte or VRS.

A small point is i would be dead doing 95% of the over taking i do in a vRS while in a Monte.

 

I drive differently in a vRS or a S3, or a M3 than i do in my 68 bhp Picanto which i drive as though it is a Monte..

Well sometimes.

 

I was driving a loaner 220 ps dsg Octavia lll vRS estate for a little bit last week, and did not do the overtakes i do in a Fabia vRS,

& it certainly had not special fun factor or Driver Involvement, just a bit of a Dual Carriageway Cruiser really.

 

george

It just goes to prove that there is a large section of the market that will choose style over function. With all respect to Monte owners (and there is nothing wrong with with being one, as they are quite stylish), they are more or less a tarted up base model Fabia (nothing wrong with those either, by the way).

 

The Monte was a good marketing exercise by Skoda, 70% of the performance for 80% of the price of a vRS. It was also meant to be a limited edition, IIRC. I wonder how many of the Monte sales would have been converted to vRS sales if the former had been dispensed with in 2012. Or would the buyers have turned to something "stylish looking" from another brand?

 

Anyway, this will be my first and last Skoda if they don't come out with something similar in 2 or 3 years. Actually, if Ford had shown some cajones and produced a DCT Fiesta ST I'd have jumped that way this time.

I have just been at the Dealership to put my plan in place, its been brewing for a year or so.

It was just to be sure of getting an Order in for the last of the vRS Estates when that time comes.

 

It would be easy to add some shiny plastic bits and pieces then and have a Monte Carlo Estate look alike.

'Rally Inspired'  when on the Hatches, according to Skoda Media Department'.

 

But i am going down the 'Countryside faux  AWD look'.  

So going to take the vRS Estate & add the plastic bits from a 'Scout'.

Just a bit of a twist on show and some go,

practical and some go when required and nobody gives it a second look.

 

george

I disagree with the people who go against the DSG , I will never buy a manual again, the important thing is to LIVE with the DSG , not just test it .... I doubt most of you would buy a Ferrari or Aston or merc ect with the manual option...

To address the argument of involvement, I've just driven ashs citygo 450 miles down to Cornwall, and although its great fun, handles really well, had great grip , and a lovely engine note, and the gear change is one of the best I've tried, it's a lively box, I got absolutely nothing out of changing gears manually to increase my enjoyment.... Not like blipping the box down 3 gears with the paddles approaching a sharp corner, blipping it back up on the exit, all keeping both hands on the wheel for steering control, then when stuck in the inevitable motorway q, putting in auto....

 

I have a DSG style box in the Nissan and did have the Fabia VRS for 4 days/400 miles, so I have lived with the box and used it quite a bit.

My wife also runs a DSG Yeti.

 

But this shows that there are clearly people that want something different from thier cars.

 

In the Nissan I can live with it, because it's still got the raw punch of acceleration to make it feel quick.

To a lesser degree the Yeti also has this as it's turbo comes on song at a certain rpm.

 

But with the Fabia there is just no feeling of grunt that I personally like.

It's quick, but you just don't feel it because the engine is so refined, smooth and linear in it's power delivery that it lacks any feeling of fun for me.

Sure it suits some people, it is convenient.

It's also modern and will eventually make manuals a minority.

But for those that want driving fun and the feeling of control/connectivity there will always be a place for manuals.

 

The reason a lot of the big fast cars these days not being manual is because of speed.  Not fun.  DSG is quicker, it's a numbers game.

George how many vRS do you own? And why would you want to have twice/thrice the same car I'm confused!

I own a few vehicles, all the ones i bought new and liked i kept, & some used bargains, you only keep cars you like.

& you sell others to afford them, its called free motoring if you buy for less than you sell them for.

Not bought a new vRS yet and will only do if the price is right, other wise a nearly new will do.

 

Just wanting the last of the line with a Twincharger & i do not have a Estate car.

 

george

I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss manual and my next car will have it. I like how well the DSG box works and in faster cars makes a lot of sense. You have more time to think about what lines to take and how to handle all the power. By just blipping through gears with paddles it makes it more accessible for mere mortals. But with the vRS I'm not sure. All the same positives that you'd get with a paddle shifting supercar and It makes sense when your pushing on and trying to go fast and it feels great but everyday I'm mainly in auto and while that's good in traffic it does leave me a bit bored. It's a very competent car, I could keep it for years and it would meet the majority of my needs. But it's missing excitement at normal speeds. Now I've had it nearly 2 years I have to go Warp 10 on a B Road to really enjoy it and I don't want to start spending on mods on a car I'm starting to lose interest in. Being into cars can sometimes cause the most illogical decisions just based on the feel of a car. I just feel I'm starting to grow out of it and want to own great manual cars while we still have a chance. DSG is the future.

The Monte was a good marketing exercise by Skoda, 70% of the performance for 80% of the price of a vRS. It was also meant to be a limited edition, IIRC.

 

Not that it changes a lot to the conversation but it's actually a mere 58% of the vRS performance (105/180). That's why I never even considered one. It's all good until you press the gas pedal...

Not that it changes a lot to the conversation but it's actually a mere 58% of the vRS performance (105/180). That's why I never even considered one. It's all good until you press the gas pedal...

 

But it clearly shows there is a bigger market for a family hatchback that looks sporty, than there is for one that actually is quick and costs a bit more.

So overall as a company selling cars, the Monte Carlo made more financial sense to Skoda.

 

Therefore on the mk3 Fabia a warm, but sporty looking car at a cheaper price (like the mk1 Fabia VRS) does actually make more sense that a fire breathing top of the range VRS.

 

So, from a business perspective, if they make a mk3 VRS it should be slower and cheaper.

Not that it changes a lot to the conversation but it's actually a mere 58% of the vRS performance (105/180). That's why I never even considered one. It's all good until you press the gas pedal...

I guess my maths isn't that good.  Actually, I was thinking more in terms of acceleration, 7-ish to 10-ish seconds 0-60mph/100kph.

Edited 22 August, 201312 yr by OzFabia

Not that it changes a lot to the conversation but it's actually a mere 58% of the vRS performance (105/180). That's why I never even considered one. It's all good until you press the gas pedal...

Remember the Mk1 was on paper only 130BHP and with variation, some were 110, other 140 ish in the real world.  I think the truth is that the Fabia vRS was just too expensive for a super mini with a Skoda badge.  It only appealed to a certain type, who do not exist in big enough numbers to make it a financial success.

Commercial sense is fine. It sells more cars, which if you're an account is a good thing.

However I prefer the kind of commercial thinking that gave us Concorde and the Bugatti Veyron.

.........sorry, I think I just came over all Clarkson.

Brake Horse with a diesel is one thing, but you want torque.

Diesels can give that easily without stress of the engines, maybe just a ticky on the drivetrain/clutch.

 

So look at the bhp with the petrol Twincharger & look at the Torque, Maximum Torque and were it is in the rev range compared to other engines.

 

george

Remember the Mk1 was on paper only 130BHP and with variation, some were 110, other 140 ish in the real world.  I think the truth is that the Fabia vRS was just too expensive for a super mini with a Skoda badge.  It only appealed to a certain type, who do not exist in big enough numbers to make it a financial success.

 

 

Very true. I would bet that if the exact same car was out with a Citroen/Renault/Fiat badge on, it would have sold 3-4 times as it did with the Skoda one. Skoda isn't just related to fast hot-hatches yet and probably never will be judging by such announcements. But to those who did/does appeal however, it's best bang for the buck by far.

I own, as a few of you know, a Monte and a vRS, this is my second Monte, the first was red, the new one is white, my vRS is Rallye Green. My comment may not add much to this thread but I wanted to share how I feel about these two, very different cars. Here's my take on the 'looks' part of this thread.

 

 

Monte Carlo

 

Reasons for purchasing, Monte is my main driving instruction car, my main aim was to purchase a car that stood out from the standard L car, mainly the Fiesta in my area.

 

I needed to be different and I believe it's paid off with the Monte, I went full time just a few months after qualifying as an ADI, I put a lot of this down to the Monte standing out like a sore thumb from the other L cars, there are over 80 ADI's in my little area, not many are full time and have to also do part time jobs to make up an income. The car MUST have played a part in such a competitive market, now the other ADI's are getting the 'Sporty' look cars when they upgrade, eg DS3, Clio's with the black alloys, so it must have had an impact.

 

vRS

 

Also a driving instruction car but my private use vehicle too. Had a Pug 207 110hp SE, didn't really like it that much but needed an auto at the time to teach in and it suited the bill, auto lights/wipers/air con etc, nice spec and a bit of poke in the engine. A mate took me out in his MK1 vRS, he drove so I can't comment on how it drives but it went well but I needed automatic so test drove a 2011 vRS in Rallye Green. Withing seconds, literally seconds, I fell in love with the car, liked the colour without doubt but what sold it to me was the DSG, I didn't want to give it back, so slick, smooth and I knew it would be easy to learn in for an L car.

 

I had seen one in blue with white roof which I liked but the reason I chose green, well it chose itself really. We popped into Tesco on our test drive, as we were leaving the store my wife said 'how the heck are we going to find the car in the car park, there's hundreds of cars there and I can't remember where I parked it?', needless to say, in no time the green stood out, SOLD!!

 

I didn't buy that car but waited for a new one on the 0% VAT deal, absolute bargain, best car I've ever owned by a long shot, love every minute of driving it and so do my pupils.

 

If the Fabia vRS is to be discontinued I'll be looking into changing it for a new one before they go out of production, even with the hassle recently of a new engine it's not put me off wanting another, there will always be some niggle with a car, expectations are high and unless you build a car of your own, from scratch, there will always be something 'extra' it could do with.

 

So, two completely different reasons for buying for me, Monte for the aforementioned 'looks', vRS for sheer drivability and pleasure. Enjoy your cars everyone and be safe :-)

I remember Honda saying they wouldn't make a 'Type R' after the bread van shape (EP3) civic, and sure they didn't for a while and then the demographic of their purchasers started to drift towards the 'elderly' end of the car buyer spectrum again.

 

Problem, no long term brand loyalty as your elderly loyal customers die!  

 

If they do pull the Vrs from the next model range, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it re introduced again. 

 

But I completely agree that a Monte shouldn't be re-baged as a Vrs, that wasn't the point I was making! 

 

 

However, as a purely personal statement, there is nothing turns me off less about a car than styling over substance and I aim this reasonably broadly (personal opinion, I repeat just my view) encompassing luke warm hatches with all the spoilers and trim, BMW 116i's with M Sport Trim and the like.

 

 

We purchased one of those over the vRS. My wife was on her 3rd Fabia but wanted some more performance than our 105TSi DSG.

 

She liked the vRS's performance but I felt it struggled with traction off the line. My wife disliked the seats as you can't adjust the seat base angle and she felt they were too deep. But the main problem was the ride and handling, the car was crashy and bumpy but still rolled in corners and steering feel was no better than our SE.

The 116i with twin scroll turbo has maximum torque at 1350rpm and 90% torque at 1000rpm without a supercharger, we were were very impressed. 0-62 in 8.5 secs and a limited 130mph top speed was enough performance for my wife and traction off the line is never an issue (Accept in the snow.)

The seats are superb and multi adjustable, the ride is supple but the handling is superb and the build quality is excellent. Performance may only be at warm hatch levels but the whole driving experience is in a different league. But so is the price.

 

Cheers

Lee

Is a new 116i  around £10,000 more new than a vRS,

Or is it a 1 Series?

 

george

Is a new 116i  around £10,000 more new than a vRS,

Or is it a 1 Series?

 

george

 

No not anywhere near £10k.

 

For the 5 Door 116i

£20160 SE

£21285 Sport

£22730 M-Sport

 

Fabia vRS £17150.

 

Of course if you want the excellent ZF 8 speed auto that's an extra £1500 and the options list is long and expensive for other stuff.

 

But residuals are good and finance rates are good. You can get a 116i Sport on 3 year, 10k miles pcp for £1k down and £295 a month.

 

Cheers

Lee

That why i asked, if a 1 Series

or i wondered if it was a 3 Series which is around £10,000 more.

 

do many pay £17,150 to buy a vRS Hatch?

 

george

That why i asked, if a 1 Series

or i wondered if it was a 3 Series which is around £10,000 more.

 

do many pay £17,150 to buy a vRS Hatch?

 

george

 

The new 1 and 3 series use the same chassis and running gear and share most of the interior.

 

I wouldn't expect anyone to pay full list on a Fabia, but same goes for BMW you can haggle 15%+ discount on a 1 Series, even on a M135i.

 

£17150 is a stupidly high price for a Fabia, more expensive than a Fiesta ST.

where do you get £17150 for a Fabia?  Ours £14,000 on the nose, brand new car pre registered by the dealer and for that money why would I want a car with all the show and no go?

 

 Yes it was £14,000 brand new, I guess I got a good deal.