is it a case of the BLT vs ASZ again? or have I just been driving the citygo too much, and the vRS too slowley......

 

anyway, gave a spanking to within an inch of its life on the way home from work, and it seems faster than my old CAVE with the TMC box on!? how is that possible?

 

maybe its the spring/tyres/RARB helping the "feel" of the car, but on fast A-road overtakes, it seems to "fizz" and pull strongly between 5-7k, whereas the last one (without the TMC) would proper fade after 5.5k...

 

thoughts from anyone who has owned both like me?

 

maybe its just placebo, or phantom was having a good day, but the car just rocked the best of any car I've owned yet, cant wait to get to castle coombe in 2 weeks!

 

i'm not bored of the VRS, but then mine really does seem a differnt animal to the last one...

I have the CTHE engine and there is a definite kick at the top end of the rev range,almost like a Honda v- tec.

Whether this translates into more bhp I wouldn't know.

I have 'fast' days and 'slow' days in my CAVE engined car and I sometimes swing between underwhelmed and blown away.

I think sometimes I'm guilty of conservative use of the loud pedal, especially if I've been driving with the avg mpg up on the maxidot. For me driver mood in the VRS has a big influence, unless I drive with a heavy right boot and a smile my car sometimes feels off the pace. For me the torque on offer can at times encourage me to drive it too much like a diesel and not push the envelope in the higher revs, but when I do it's pretty satisfying.

I've taken a CTHE demonstrator out when considering moving to an estate also but would be hard pushed to say it felt any different but it wasn't my car so I didn't explore the full rev range.

When the 'kick between 5-7k' thread was on. I replied negative, as I didn't feel it when the car was new.... Does seem that was now though....

*does seem like that...

I have the CAVE motor, when we first got it I thought it was plenty fast, then we had oil issues and a new breather mods etc, this also included a remap to new software, when we got the car back it had more torque in the lower revs and as you say a V-Tec effect top end, maybe the software mod our car got was the software for the CTHE?

 

 So to answer your question, I don't know as I don't have a CTHE or driven one.

It's a quirky engine for me in how it delivers it's smiles per gallon and seems like some swear by the 2500-3500rpm torque band and others get more joy out of higher rev range on Turbo only. As for CTHE vs CAVE I haven't a clue, my bet though is between one CAVE and another there is probably potential for a reasonable variation in feel and performance same for CTHE vs CTHE. I'm finding the difference in feel in my car with some nice new front tyres is pronounced, better pickup and acceleration through the gears to the top, feels like less resistance and for the first time ever I hit 46.5mpg on my run to work. Could be a different car.

Glad to hear phantom is making you smile anyway, that's a handsome Skoda Estate.

lol @ "so to answer your question.." :P

 

the mapping was the biggest thing I noticed with the new car, so maybe.... I'll get it on a RR and compair with my old one

thanks sparkly, glad you are happy with yours too... what mileage you up to? because they do improve vastly with miles..... seem to wake up between about 6k -10k....... mine has just hit 6,500.....

Here is my CAVE with TMC on a lowley "7" setting

 

 

 

holds the power in a flat line atthe end, which the standard car didn't.. I am fascinated to see if the CTHE does too! I know Damo had a RR done, but his had only covered a couple of thousand miles, and was a replacement engine, so not a "new" CTHE ...

thanks sparkly, glad you are happy with yours too... what mileage you up to? because they do improve vastly with miles..... seem to wake up between about 6k -10k....... mine has just hit 6,500.....

Coming up on 39k and out of warranty : /

Drives like a dream, oil no issue. Next few months should see a few 'upgrades' coming online so look forward to posting on my findings.

Not all CAVE or CTHE cars drive the same or do the same performance.

There can be quite a difference from jumping in one standard car to another.

 

I think that the ragged from new cars might have an advantage but when i get in Twinchargers and i have driven a few now, you never know for starters if they have 99 ron petrol in,

 

Then the gearbox is not doing the same thing maybe, from how the last driver has been driving.

Living with a different car for a few hours or a decent amount of miles and you can feel the diffference or feel it change over your time with it.

 

Different tyres, different oils and you notice the Oil Temp behave differently.

I have only driven 1 vRS Estate, a Demonstrator CTHE with 600 miles on,

and it was a fast one, standard suspension, but nice Continental tyres on, and it drove very nicely.

that 9 3/4" on the tail and stronger rear springs helps traction at the front i think.

(i have driven CTHE hatches and not been like that Estate was, just like a CAVE engine, but you do know the MAP is different,

thats why they changed it, you feel it at different places, depending how you use the DSG.)

 

They are Minimum 180ps, and with a few thousand miles on are quite possibly more.

If 180ps/178bhp minimum is the official figure from VAG on 95 RON fuel then that will be different on full chat on 99-102 RON.

 

george

Here is my CAVE with TMC on a lowley "7" setting

 

 

 

holds the power in a flat line atthe end, which the standard car didn't.. I am fascinated to see if the CTHE does too! I know Damo had a RR done, but his had only covered a couple of thousand miles, and was a replacement engine, so not a "new" CTHE ...

 

Makes interesting reading.  Since it is HP at the backwheel that is important it is noticable that the peak power occurs not much over 5K revs ie about 1000 revs lower than the figures quited in the brochure.  Mine is one of the ones that does not change in to 7th in sports mode and it is noticeable that it stops appreciacable accelerating when you are in the 120s ie when revs are getting over not a lot over 5k revs. 

 

Be interesting to see the rolling road printout of the new engine to compare, same RR I presume.  Worked for Piper and you do get an appreciation of just how many factors can effect reported BHP.  

Makes interesting reading.  Since it is HP at the backwheel that is important it is noticable that the peak power occurs not much over 5K revs ie about 1000 revs lower than the figures quited in the brochure.  Mine is one of the ones that does not change in to 7th in sports mode and it is noticeable that it stops appreciacable accelerating when you are in the 120s ie when revs are getting over not a lot over 5k revs. 

 

Be interesting to see the rolling road printout of the new engine to compare, same RR I presume.  Worked for Piper and you do get an appreciation of just how many factors can effect reported BHP.  

 

i agree RR'ds are a lottery of course, I think this one was accurate, because we had a "test" car :p davys toyota , which is supposed to give 99 bhp , and it gave 99 bhp! lol... but yest the CTHE just seems to kick between 5-7k.... I'll get it on a RR at the first time I'm free for one.

I test drove a CAVE before buying my CTHE, initial thoughts were the bottom end were the same but top end of the range the CTHE just keeps going, the CAVE seemed to drop off earlier. This was a very limited test drive though.

i agree RR'ds are a lottery of course, I think this one was accurate, because we had a "test" car :p davys toyota , which is supposed to give 99 bhp , and it gave 99 bhp! lol... but yest the CTHE just seems to kick between 5-7k.... I'll get it on a RR at the first time I'm free for one.

 

Got these numbers for the gear ratios from a VW forum:-

 

Here are the gear ratios for the 7-speed DSG:

Type of clutch single-disc dry clutch  Gearbox 7-speed DSG

Individual/overall gear ratio, 1st gear 3.5/15.53:1

Individual/overall gear ratio, 2nd gear 2.273/10.085:1

Individual/overall gear ratio, 3rd gear 1.531/6.793:1

Individual/overall gear ratio, 4th gear 1.122/4.978:1

Individual/overall gear ratio, 5th gear 1.176/3.795:1

Individual/overall gear ratio, 6th gear 0.951/3.069:1

Individual/overall gear ratio, 7th gear 0.795/2.565

 

This makes the ratio between 5th and 7th almost 1.48 and even 1.2 between 5th and 6th.  I think it is about 27 mph per 1000 revs in 7th which would mean 18 mph per 1000 revs in 5th and 22.5 mph per 1000 in 6th.

 

I am thinking it actually often (if not always) does not even get out of 5th in Sports Mode which means at 120 it is doing 6,600 plus rpm, no wonder has stopped accelerating as it is way past the true back wheel peak power.  So Sports Mode is efffectively a speed limiter on this Fabia VRS !  Basically need to change out of sports mode as soon as in three figure as it so it will go in to sixth and seventh where there is more power.

 

Would have been interested to read an in-depth report when Fifth Gear took the UK MSA speed-distance records for sub 1500 cc cars....

http://www.skoda.co.uk/news/skoda-fabia-vrs-breaks-seven-national-speed-records-with-fifth-gear  which it still holds to today I gather from the MSA website.

 

Sure they must either used paddles all the way up to flat out cruising or gone from sports to normal at around 110-ish to do those 130 plus (geniune) speed-distance records.  Odd they way Skoda/VAG have set up the logic for the DSG controller.

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-294030.html

 

They possibly did what i do with a DSG that goes into 7th in 'S', not change gear your self until going into 5th.

TC Off,

Into 1st Manual and floor it, let it do the upshift because it will, then change into 5th at about 100, then across to D & back to S if you want,

it changes up at 127 mph or so into 7th, having redlined it in 6th,

(Fastest timed way of 0-130 i have found from using various methods with the DSG.).

 

george

If you are talking top speed, the vRS only reaches top speed in 5th gear (140 mph approx). 6th and 7th cannot overcome aerodynamic drag and are for normal driving. Tony

Is that your experience with your car?

 Simply because it can top an indicated 140 in 7th your statement above makes no sense, (i would not be dropping 2 gears when doing that speed)

unless that is how your particular car is & only can Max out in 5th.

 

There must be a few on here that have been in 7th 'D' or even 'S' with 7th and flat out

Personally i am out of 5th at 110-115 or so, then 6th & 7th.

I cruise abroad like others will in 7th and doing what is allowable and achievable,

inclines might need to drop back to 6th..

 

george

 

Not recommended like this.

Plenty Youtube available Maxing in '7D' & MPH.

Indicated 206km/h=128mph, 230km/h=142mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLQUazZc_kI

I don't know, but felt pedantic, so I'll chuck in that I reckon that there is no power being generated at the back wheels lol-lol! ;-)

Drive/power @ flywheel meant i think!

If you are talking top speed, the vRS only reaches top speed in 5th gear (140 mph approx). 6th and 7th cannot overcome aerodynamic drag and are for normal driving. Tony

 

Not true at all.

I don't know, but felt pedantic, so I'll chuck in that I reckon that there is no power being generated at the back wheels lol-lol! ;-)

 

Or perhaps when the dinosaurs and trees died millions of years ago creating the crude oil or from the suns fusion reaction creating the solar power or the big bang.  

If you are talking top speed, the vRS only reaches top speed in 5th gear (140 mph approx). 6th and 7th cannot overcome aerodynamic drag and are for normal driving. Tony

 

Unless I have am having bad math days or got the wrong ratioand for my 61 plate I think 7K revs is about 126 mph in 5th gear, way way past the peak hp measured at the back wheels and this is my experience that is ports mode it just levels off around 125 and buzzs away and does not do anything much else. My definately seems like it needs to be in 6th over 110 and in 7th, which is still quite a leap from 6th ie 20% to go in to 7th over 125 approx. 

 

At 4500 rpm it is producing 160hp and slowly biulds to 180 at 6200 but the rolling road shows actually little point revving beyond 5.5 in the CAVE engine and top speed gear to back wheel hp in 7th and not engine peak power ie 6.2 or so in 6th if i read it right.    Certainly the way I read it.  Fabia also very prone to head and tail winds.

What you might find with a standard 1.4 TSI is the difference from 95 ron or 98/99 ron.

 

as much as, and this is CAVE.

95 ron, 180ps (132kw)  @ 6450 rpm and max torque of 240Nm @ 2580 rpm

99 ron  185ps (136kw) @ 6450 rpm and max torque of 250Nm @ 2580 rpm

Torque peaking at around 2580 rpm and staying above 220 Nm but tailing off after 5500rpm.

 

Stage 1 on 99ron can give 204 ps (150kw) at 6500rpm & 25Nm increase in torque or more over 95ron,(265Nm),

peaking @ 3475 rpm *!

& 250Nm from 2500rpm -5500rpm

From my figures and on a Maha LPS3000 rolling-road Dyno. 215/40R 17s.

 

george