What Skoda has achieved in the market place and in motorsports, and with the land speed records is truly beyond its humble origins, like Red Bull racing has achieved ie low budget beaten the big boys.

 

Humble origins? Skoda is one of if not the oldest car manufacturer in the world...

 

VRS sales outside the UK are poor. The monte approach (exploited to great success by BMW mini) is commercially much more successful. They are going to apply the monte (BMW mini) philosphy more widely - that means the VRS would no longer stand out in simple marketing - how many would pay a VRS premium if you can buy an Fabia S, dressed to look identical?

 

In any case VAG has SEAT tagged as the "young sports" brand and Skoda is their "value" brand. In time, I see the Octavia VRS disappearring too.

None of us would buy a new fabia vrs anyway as it would cost far too much money. Lets be honest, the only real reason anyone bought mk2 fabia vrs is because of its discounted price. At rrp I wouldn't have given it a second glance (its not good looking enough amyway for a look back!).

Believe me I'm being totally honest when I say that I finally decided to buy a vRS because first, it ticked all of my boxes, second, I liked the looks of it (although i find this to be true for specific body and wheel combos) and third I found its value for money to be totally reasonable (no VAT free deals here and not the most expensive one in my list at the time mind you). So saying that anybody who bought one did it because there was a discount running (only true for the UK) but didn't like it's look is some unfair generalizing imho. I would never buy something I wouldn't like to look at, I feel sorry for the people who do actually. I am not obviously talking about buying a used car for 3-4K. But spending something around 15K and still not getting a car you like in today's market is certainly weird. Me, two years after, I still want to give it a second look of satisfaction when I've parked and I'm walking away from it.

Humble origins? Skoda is one of if not the oldest car manufacturer in the world...

 

VRS sales outside the UK are poor. The monte approach (exploited to great success by BMW mini) is commercially much more successful. They are going to apply the monte (BMW mini) philosphy more widely - that means the VRS would no longer stand out in simple marketing - how many would pay a VRS premium if you can buy an Fabia S, dressed to look identical?

 

In any case VAG has SEAT tagged as the "young sports" brand and Skoda is their "value" brand. In time, I see the Octavia VRS disappearring too.

 

Well actually Laurin and Klement were the car markers and Skoda was the arms manufacturer.

 

Most country's peoples are much more nationalistic than we are and tend more to buy their own makes.  Not that many in the Czech republic would buy the VRS as it is expensive compared to the average wage.  Monte does not do it for me as there are no exciting engines put in to it but it is clearly relatively good value and many of the trims bits are good additions and should have gone on the Fabia VRS.   The Mini, more style than substance, which many people like of course, even worse aerodynamics than the Fabia to hold on to an outdated car shape.  

 

I care more about what the car does than what it looks like, I am the same with people.

 

SEAT would do better to shut up shop in Spain and move to Mexico as cars can be imported from there at zero percent duty as well.  There is not currently an equivalent to the Octavia in either Audi, SEAT or VW ie a massive hatchback.  Sure they could get one of the other 3 to produce but why would you when the Euro area is such an expensive place to produce and export cars from?

 

Skoda is an growing brand in places like India and VAG sees Skoda going past a million cars per year in the not too distant future and I would expect them to pass BMW sales in five years or so as BMW and MIni sales have fallen about 6% so far this year as there markets cannot afford their prices.  My Neighbour has a delimited M3 and that is a proper BMW.  

Demise of this Beemer. just goes to show that splashing the cash does not always buy you satisfaction.

 I like the Comment,

"Maybe the next time he should complained on a forums instead."

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/288769-fed-up-with-your-car.

I like the looks of the Fabia RS. I know some don't (my own wife said after driving it for the first time "It does the business, but it's ugly").

 

I wouldn't call a Fabia pretty, of course, but it's tough in its way. A lot of cars this size are girly looking, or try-hard. With respect to those who have them, the Abarth and Citroen DS3 may fall into the latter categories. Which isn't to say they aren't good cars, just styled (for me) in a less than satisfactory way.

 

I can't see why Skoda needs to discontinue to offer a (v)RS model. I'm sure the extra asking cost of these top of the range and/or performance cars over the standard model doesn't add up to the sum of the extra parts. I somehow doubt the Monte Carlo's bits and pieces add up to the difference. Of course, it's hard to quantify the value of the enhanced styling for the individual punter...

 

Surely it couldn't be too hard to create a Monte Carlo with an engine and suspension a step or two up from standard? That would be an RS in all but name, I suppose, but maybe it's a little on the nose in the Fabia format nowadays?

 

Ultimately, if Skoda offered a manual variant, I'm sure the problem would be solved. That, to me, seems to be the major problem, rather than the omission of a diesel option.

Think this might be last years 120i but interesting anways.

 

Battle : 120 i (E87) vs Fabia II RS

 

url=http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match2694-3286.htm

Think this might be last years 120i but interesting anways.

 

Battle : 120 i (E87) vs Fabia II RS

 

url=http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match2694-3286.htm

 

No such animal as a 120i anymore in the 1 Series hatch.

 

The E 1 Series had normally aspirated petrols (Apart from the 135i) , the F Series hatchback introduced in 2011 all petrol engined models have dual scroll turbo, valvetronic variable valve timing and lift (No throttle) and direct injection.

 

For Petrols

114i,116i and 118i have the 197bhp 1.6T Prince engine but have power capped at different levels to give marketing options. AC Shnitzer offer the 200bhp ECU but it's expensive.

125i has 2.0 Turbo (Performance Power Kit available from BMW)

M135i has 3.0 straight 6 Turbo.

 

For diesels.

1.6ED is a 1.6 diesel

116D and 118D have the same 2.0TDi but with different power outputs

120D has significantly uprated and strengthened 2.0TDi

125D has again a 2.0TDi but with twin turbos.

 

Badging has very little to do with engine size now.

 

Cheers

Lee

Edited 17 September, 201312 yr by logiclee

No such animal as a 120i anymore in the 1 Series hatch.

 

The E 1 Series had normally aspirated petrols (Apart from the 135i) , the F Series hatchback introduced in 2011 all petrol engined models have dual scroll turbo, valvetronic variable valve timing and lift (No throttle) and direct injection.

 

For Petrols

114i,116i and 118i have the 197bhp 1.6T Prince engine but have power capped at different levels to give marketing options. AC Shnitzer offer the 200bhp ECU but it's expensive.

125i has 2.0 Turbo (Performance Power Kit available from BMW)

M135i has 3.0 straight 6 Turbo.

 

For diesels.

1.6ED is a 1.6 diesel

116D and 118D have the same 2.0TDi but with different power outputs

120D has significantly uprated and strengthened 2.0TDi

125D has again a 2.0TDi but with twin turbos.

 

Badging has very little to do with engine size now.

 

Cheers

Lee

 

Thanks, most informative if not a confusing system BMW have adopted.  the Fabia2 VRS could be Skoda Series Two 218TC or the like I suppose.

 

The website has not tested the mid sized engined latest series but have test the 125i which is quite an interesting comparison. 

 

http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match4427-3286.htm      Battle : 125 i (F20) vs Fabia II RS 

Has anyone had experience of the Ibiza 1.4TSI FR DSG which is on the internet at £12783 as a comparison with the Fabia VRS?

It is a real bargain if you like the car.

You can get a 3 or 5 door or an ST which is well priced.

I would happily own one if i did not have a 180ps engined, DSG car from Seat, Skoda VW or Audi.

 

I have driven one on loan from a Seat dealer.

If you mean the 150 ps model?

 

I liked it, liked it well enough,

and no reports of any problems with the engine at 150ps tune.  Almost as fast as a vRS to well over the national speed limit.

It is a bit heavier than a vRS, but you will never notice that.

 

george

Can't say I'm supprised it's going - it never had the cult (and now chav) following of the original. But then again, the original never really sold in numbers anywhere apart from here. And wasn't that quick in standard form either

 

The Polo GTI and Ibiza Cupra are better cars, built on (slightly) newer platforms, and don't look tall and narrow like the Fabia.

 

The Fabia was quick, but completely uninvolving and un-exciting to drive.

Once I sell mine there's a good chance it will be my last Skoda for the forseeable future. It does almost everything I want it to but I'm missing a manual. Even if I heel and toe spot on it will never be as quick as DSG but I'm not bothered anymore. It's just more satisfying to do and I want something I can feel like I'm driving even if it ends up being slightly slower. At times with the vRS I've found it's holding me back and I want something I can learn more with and probably RWD next. One thing that has always plagued Fabia's is brakes. 10 mins on a B-Road and I'm having to change how I drive thanks to brake fade, lifting a lot earlier than I normally would and it's frustrating. Last vRS was the same until I stuck 312mm brakes on it but the fact I had to annoyed me and really I should do the same with this. I could modify but I'd rather a better base to start with. I've already said the GT86 will be my next car. Fun out of the box and loads of tuning potential

GT86 and a turbo kit, yeah?

GT86 and a turbo kit, yeah?

 

i started pricing one of them up but i think you can get a better deal on the Subaru brz version

GT86 and a turbo kit, yeah?

Just a remap and a few bits to make it breathe better gets it up to about 210-220bhp with software options for different maps, flat shifting, auto blip for downshifts is an option. Turbo kits can easily get it to 300bhp if I wanted it. Changing tyres, a few suspension bits and a different geometry is said to make it even better. Granted the turbo setup costs a bit but everything else are the same prices you'd pay on VAG cars. 

Most only make about 170bhp out of the factory :(

Most only make about 170bhp out of the factory :(

Yeah the 198bhp figure is the engine on a dyno with no exhaust attached so it is a bit naughty Toyota quote that figure. It's 170ish at the wheels but the map, intake and exhaust are all a bit restrictive. 

Most GT86/BRZ that Shark have had on the rollers have been down on maximum power and have had a big hole in the midrange.

 

If you want to play with RWD handling leave the suspension geometry and tyres as they are, the engine doesn't have the torque to break traction on big sticky tyres.

 

Cheers

Lee

Here we go again, 'Have you driven one of these?'

 

(suspension/balance/handling is different between the GT86 & BRZ)

 

The automatics broke traction quick easily in the dry, nothing to do with torque, just revs and rear wheel drive,

ones with slightly wider tyres and good dry grip will do exactly them same, just add dampness, or even in the dry, a little unloading of weight and TC off.

It will be easy enough to break traction in a manual, even with upgrade tyres fitted.

Just like it is possible even in one of the lesser powered BMW's.

 

george

Here we go again, 'Have you driven one of these?'

 

(suspension/balance/handling is different between the GT86 & BRZ)

 

The automatics broke traction quick easily in the dry, nothing to do with torque, just revs and rear wheel drive,

ones with slightly wider tyres and good dry grip will do exactly them same, just add dampness, or even in the dry, a little unloading of weight and TC off.

It will be easy enough to break traction in a manual, even with upgrade tyres fitted.

Just like it is possible even in one of the lesser powered BMW's.

 

george

 

Driven a BRZ (Manual), not a GT86, I used to be an active member of the SIDC and still attend the odd track day with the Subaru guys, getting quite a few BRZ's attending now.

 

You can always force lift off oversteer but you can do that in a 205Gti or Subaru Impreza for that matter and yes you can provoke wheel spin, But the standard car on something like the Melbourne Hairpin will power oversteer round, the guy in the lowered car with aftermarket wheels and wider F1 Assy2 tyres was trying everything bar the handbrake but all he got was a little slide and grip. Faster certainly but I think the standard guys were having more fun.

 

The vast praise the GT86/BRZ has been getting is due to it having less grip to exploit the handling.

 

To be honest the lower powered BMW's are the same if you want oversteer and this is especially so with the M-Sport models with wider rear tyres than fronts. 

 

Evo's thoughts, basically the toyota will be easier to drift but only if you push past the initial understeer.

 

The two cars only truly begin to diverge when you increase your commitment and really start to push them dynamically in the dry. The difference is in the set-up, with the Toyota having a slightly softer front end and a slightly stiffer rear (and therefore by deduction the Subaru being mildly stiffer at the front and faintly softer at the rear). This means that initially you get a little more positive feeling from the ?steering of the BRZ as its sharper nose dives into corners, with a bit more bite the ?moment you turn the wheel. This extra grip doesn’t seem to diminish either; the harder you push, the harder it grips because as the car turns, the softer rear leans and digs its tyres harder into the tarmac. Understeer simply never materialises. 

By comparison, the Toyota has a marginally softer ?feeling to the steeringand less positivity as you turn in to a corner fast. Carry yet more speed and the nose actually begins to leak away its grip, the steering lightening a little in your palms as it does so. This then requires you to back off the throttle a fraction, or unwind a bit of lock to restore grip to the front tyres. In short, it will understeer.

What I’m about to say next might surprise you. We ?prefer the Toyota. Yup, the ?understeering GT86 is our choice for the thrill of driving. That’s because when the front tyres start to scrub, it’s ?comforting; it signals where you are with grip levels and lets you adjust the weight ?balance more effectively. In short, it gives you something to work with, whereas the BRZ at its limit just seems to grip and resist your attempts to get it moving around. 

Because the GT86 is stiffer at the back, it also unsticks into oversteer (with a combination of momentum and power) more easily and progressively than the Subaru, which will eventually oversteer but feels ?more snappy and less happy doing so, wanting to pivot around a point closer to the front wheels. It’s all stuff that happens right at the outer ?limits of the cars’ repertoires, and unless you’re on a dry trackday it won’t matter most of the time because those limits are surprisingly high. 

 

Cheers

Lee

Edited 19 September, 201312 yr by logiclee

Subaru organised a road trip with some cars to swap around & owners also took their cars.

This was not Track driving it was like the type of driving that many owners buy the cars for, roads not just for the track.

Back roads tend to have cambers, off camber, broken edges and gravel or sandy corners,

thats where the difference and fun can be and handling and traction when not on a track.

 

george