When I get this new Fabia estate next month, learning lessons from all previous cars, I intend to straightaway do some additional work including

 

Painting rear drums

 

Spraying additional laquer inside the alloys

 

Greasing the hubs/wheel bolts for corrosion/easy removal.

 

lacquer/wax protection/lubricrate certain underbody bits (bracket above rear silencer is one) and suspension components.

 

All skodas I've had (all new) have pretty scabby exhaust silencers within weeks of delivery, is there anything that someone recommends, I'm considering one of the following (previously tried) solutions

 

Engine lacquer or Hammerite

 

Or maybe I will try rubbing down with MOS (Molybdenum Disulphide) loaded penetrating oil (to leave a MOS coating) or MOS spray. MOS can stand upto 450deg C.

 

Comments or recommendations?

Paint the exhausts painted parts with Good Quality Exhaust paint as soon as you get it.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/286901-buying-a-new-fabia-painting-and-warranty-issues

I really wanted a clear (lacquer type) solution because of the warranty issue.

For the exhaust.?

anyone looking knows you have painted something on anyway because it discolours and comes off.

Nobody is going to replace your exhaust anyway under warranty,

and the exterior rust is nothing, they rust from inside out most often.

So you are talking Cosmetic only, might as well paint it with good exhaust paint. then get it hot and cook it on.

Whats the point of lacquering whats on.

 

This is a cheap new back box painted with Exhaust silver, & its still looking good years later.

I take your point. The silver finish looks good.

Hi xman, yeah...all very sensible stuff you have planned. Just maybe don't grease the wheel bolts. You probably know but they get torqued to 120nm, and if you grease them they will over tighten and likely damage the threads. Torque dry and all will be well. The zinc alloy coating on the bolts is a lubricant and no other is needed. Agree with George about the exhaust. Doesn't matter what you do, it will go rusty on the surface. But that's ok as they all seem to do that. They rust more from the inside, unless you get a diesel. Good luck with your new car. What are you getting?

I'm getting a 1.2Tsi SE estate (one of the special offer ones at £9995) to build up son no.2's NCD. Hopefully it'll be a lot lighter on fuel consumption than that 1.2HTP BZG engine which we are holding onto as a runabout.

 

I have to disagree on the bolts - last month I took the wheels off the Octavia (20 months old and 32k miles) - usual story of corroded alloy to hub making it difficult to remove (though I now use the "lower the car down to put some weight on" trick to make it easy to remove). The rear O/S bolts came out with so much aluminium oxide embedded in the threads that I initially thought this was some kind of dry lubricant! The centre hub nuts also starting to rust badly (at 20 months!) Really I think all this dry assembly sucks and leads to problems in maintenance later.

 

Cleaning with MOS2 penetrating oil and very light smear of LM grease has been the order of the day and has worked well for many years, I tighten to 120nm which I believe is the VAG recommendation.

 

As an engineer, I cant see how applying lubricant can lead to overtightening, I understand the opposite, it should be lubricated (lightly) to ensure correct tightening and avoid undertightening. see http://www.enerpac.com/en/torque-tightening

 

As far as the silencer goes - this is a bit of a mystery area. On our Mk1 Fabia and indeed the current one, both silencers rusted very badly in the early weeks along the bottom - on the MK1 Fabia the outer skin eventually split and "peeled open" along the rust after 3 or 4 years - however it didnt blow any exhaust because (according to the MOT guys) these silencers are double skinned and the outer skin is not that critical? Spraying some hammerite (yes, I know its not high temperature paint) over the corrosion area seemed to have held the corrosion in check. I know they rust from the inside - but experience seems to indicate a different problem - the original is supposedly made from a stainless grade steel. (not a very high one though). My theory is it something to do with initial salt water exposure at Emden/Grimbsy - anyway - the silencer getting washed thoroughly and some kind of protection first thing. As is the bare mild steel exhaust bracket I posted about earlier.

Edited 21 September, 201312 yr by xman

Very nice car indeed. I'm jealous! The price is very interesting too. You've got me wondering if I should consider another change. lol

 

I can see where you are coming from re bolt tightening lubrication, and I mention this only because it's an important safety point that concerns anyone who removes a wheel and puts it back again. The article you link to is explaining principles of torque setting only and can potentially be misleading to the general public without the necessary background knowledge if read in the context of this thread. That article shows how the principles are taught about applied forces...that's all it would be used for. That isn't how you actually torque a bolt(s) in practice necessarily as it ignores the many types of torquing situations, types of bolts, materials used, and importantly, what the manufacturers say to do, which is the most important part. I would add that any technician or engineer who didn't know this on his exams when I trained would fail that part of his paper, it's that important.

 

In everyday practice, all torque setting quoted are 'dry' (non lubed) figures unless stated otherwise. The manufacturers unless stated otherwise will always quote dry figures and torsional losses due to friction are factored into the equation because that's easy to do, much easier than calculating precise figures for lubed threads due to the many variables that creep in such as type of lube used, how much is applied etc.  If you lube the threads and apply the quoted torque figure you will over tighten the bolts and either strip threads, or wear the thread unduly, or stretch the bolts leading to eventual failure. That's simply because lubed bolts, without the factored in friction will rotate too far before the torque wrench reaches it's set torque figure. There are many places where wet torquing is appropriate, but wheel nuts are not normally one of them and for the Fabia it should be dry. If when you removed the wheel bolts you had so much metal material on the threads, it can be a sign the bolts have been either dry or wet lubed and overtightened as a result even if they were torqued to 120nm. Or just overtightened with dry threads of course. It is I would add very common though even with correctly tightened bolts to see amounts of debris in the threads especially the first time the bolts are removed after leaving the factory as the natural lube of the zinc comes out in a visible form, so no definitive conclusion can be reached. Yes, I know, owners do have a tendency to lube threads and many have done so for years they'll tell you without any problems. Well maybe but it damages the threads or bolts as above. And the materials used now on cars do not lend themselves to people doing the wrong thing with all this alloy and steel mix around. It's less forgiving of inappropriate lubing.

 

Pay particular attention to when a manual says to use a thread lock material. If it says to use thread lock then it must be used as the torque figure quoted will be a 'wet' figure in order to get the right setting with the torque wrench. Of course I know this doesn't apply to the wheel nuts as thread lock should not be used in that instance. But just trying to indicate how this torque setting business is affected by all sorts of things. 

 

Here is an article explaining how it should be done in practice:   

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair/torque-wrench-101-how-to-get-the-right-amount-of-force-2

 

Anyhoo, good luck again and can't wait to see piccy of said car when it arrives...bye for now.

Thanks for the information. It seems the most importantant part is not to lube the bolt seat.

Re painting exhausts...

Silver painting or whatever is fine as long as you appreciate that it's mainly a cosmetic exercise and a way of avoiding exterior surface rust.

As far as I know all serious corrosion comes from the inside from the acidic bi products of combustion.Having said that,oem exhaust systems seem to last many years now,they are all stainless steel are they not?....although some grades of ss are better than others,of course

Edited 22 September, 201312 yr by XK140

Thanks for the information. It seems the most importantant part is not to lube the bolt seat.

 

Indeed, yes that's a very good point to make. It is important not to lube the bolt seat. Also, just bear in mind the threads make up potentially 50% plus or more of the frictional resistance on wheel bolts so adding lube is really a no no. I've just rebuilt a multi cylinder motorcycle engine with new studs into an alloy block and in that instance the threads made up around 80% of the torsional friction even when torqued 'wet'. These were torqued 'wet' as per manufacturers spec but after forgetting to apply the thread lock to one stud (yeah, I know not good but it was 1am and it's my project engine! lol!) I had to start again including a new gasket. It was noticeable the bolt that I fitted dry (both ratchet torqued then angle torqued) rotated nearly two full turns less than the rest inspite of the torque being applied as per manufacturers spec. That's how I realised I had forgetten to apply the threadlock because I could tell the bolt was not rotating enough when doing it up. That's how much difference it made...quite surprising and of course it was not tightened anywhere near enough. Re-doing it with the thread lock applied (which in this case is the lubricant as well) corrected the problem and it now runs superbly.

Just checked my torque wrench - its been set to 145nm - oops!

 

Retorqued the wheel bolts on 2 of the cars today, need to get the Octavia in and get those bolts cleaned up properly and retorqued!

 

All this info isnt doing my OCD any good!

Me too xman! It's an engineer's disease this ocd. lol. Check check and check again...unless that is, you are maxed out at 1am in the morning like me the other night!! A brilliant way to make mistakes...Ooops!  Again, good luck with the car and I was serious about asking if you can post some pics. May think about a change myself. It's a good time to buy. 

...unless that is, you are maxed out at 1am in the morning like me the other night!! A brilliant way to make mistakes...Ooops!

 

Been there countless times.....not knowing when to stop and have a break or go to bed is a problem.....

 

As far as the special offer "25% off" Fabias (see Skoda website for details), dealers claim only a small number are available approx 5 hatches(1.2htp)  and 5 estates(1.2tsi) each dealer. Maybe this is a sales tactic, maybe they will order another batch only if or when demand is high enough....if youre really interested I recommend you check your local dealer.

Noticed this a little late but I'd only like to say it's also evident from the simplified Torque - Preload equation: T = k * d * F  (where T: Torque, k: coefficient of friction, d: bolt diameter, F: preload)

 

It may only be useful only for approximations and quick torque-preload correlations but the important thing is which factors are proportional or inversely proportional to one another.

 

So clearly, achieving the same torque value with less friction means exerting higher preload on the bolt. And going from coefficients of dry zinc-plated bolts (~0.2) to well lubricated ones (0.10-0.15) means around 50 to 100% greater preload on the bolt! I guess people may have been doing this for years and getting away with it only because manufacturers are so wise as to dimension the bolts with safety factors way over 2 but I wouldn't want to walk in the wrong direction...

 I was serious about asking if you can post some pics. May think about a change myself. It's a good time to buy. 

 

Came in today! 1.2Tsi SE

 

 

It still has the white cling film all over it....

Edited 23 September, 201312 yr by xman

Wow...nice and shiny! Great colour...mucho jealousy. I want one...

Picked car up yesterday, drove home - straight into my garage. Today, even though I didnt feel like doing anything - started the PDP!

 

Usual story with drums - corrosion started - this picture is the better of the two sides!

 

 

Cleaned, painted with industrial black paint in 30 minutes, and lightly greased mating surface

 

At the same time painted the welds on the rear suspension (already starting to rust) and bottoms of the rear shockers (they always seem to rust and look ugly)

 

Similar story with front disks

 

 

Didnt lacquer the inside of the alloys, instead cleaned and PTFE sprayed inside spokes where the grime accumulates and eventually corrodes, and silicone sprayed the rest to hopefully make the dirt not adhere. Time will tell.....

 

At the same time as sorting the alloys etc, used a combination of silicone spray and MoS2 loaded penetrating oil to clean main suspension, hub carriers and protect the major bolts. Also polished the plastic liners and under plastic bits to make them shiny and "slippy" so dirt doesnt stick.

 

The exhaust on the Tsi looks better quality metal (looks like a stainless box?) and is tucked up nicely out of the way on the estate. Cleaned and oiled it up with MoS2 penetrating oil as far as and including the middle box (wiped of any excess though) - it cleaned any surface rust off nicely and hopefully it will "blue" the metal when it heats up.

 

I'm disappointed that my car didnt come with full body under trays, just stonechip paint. - It seems they ran out of stonechip near the back, so I've waxed those areas for the time being. Later will probably get some siver Schutz and do it properly.

 

Is there a grommet missing here? And why do we need so many holes at the back?

 

If I had access to a proper workshop, I would do a lot more.....

 

Oh...I also resisted the temptation to lube the wheel bolts (not too happy about this).

 

Corroded bolts on rear offside wheel though. Poor/cheap quality zinc plated bolts.....

Edited 2 October, 201312 yr by xman

Makes you feel good to do these things and will hopefully benefit the car over time. Just be careful with the silicone and PTFE. If you have used a very light coating it should be ok. But if you use loads it will often wash off over time and splash onto the brake discs where it can impregnate the disc pads. I found using either that new acrylic aluminium silver paint is good for protecting that area of the wheels, or silver smoothrite which you know about anyway. That extra coating works wonders on the inside of the spokes. She's looking good though and I like the look of the black hubs! I looked under my estate rear end and I've got the same grommet free hole so I think that's normal. I sprayed waxoyl in and around all my orifices at the rear end!!...if you see what I mean!

Just be careful with the silicone and PTFE. If you have used a very light coating it should be ok. But if you use loads it will often wash off over time and splash onto the brake discs where it can impregnate the disc pads.

 

Thanks, yes, I think you're right - I haven't thought this one through enough.

 

Not worried about the silicone as I've applied and buffed it up like a polish, but the PTFE is different as its basically a fine granular powder. Although I've only used a light coat, it could,as you say, potentially contaminate the pads. (Back wheels should be OK as they're drums..)

 

So I guess I'll whip the front wheels off again and do something - dont know what yet, as its too early in the morning to think :zzz:

And so I took the wheels off and wiped off any residue of ptfe - very little as I could see, seems ptfe doesnt stick to anything without help from something like grease....Yup....crap idea.

 

I also wiped the brake disks down with brake cleaner - just in case.

 

Looks like some extra lacquer but thats a job for another day.....

Well you are clearly having fun doing what you are doing and that's all good. Lacquer is great too...it won't notice either but will give good extra protection. They always corrode over time at the rear of the spokes to a small degree. So it's sensible to take action early like you are doing.