Hello,

I'm stuck, so as everyone does I'm going to ask the internet for advice.

I was going to get the 2.0 Tdi Estate. I don't do many miles now, maybe 20 a day on the motorway, but in a few years time when work moves, tis could easily double. I thought this was fine, but I didn't know about DPF and I'm concearned that there could be issues with my current driving patterns.

So now, I am back to thinking about the 1.4 Tsi. I can get the petrol Elegance for around the same price as the SE deisel. As I won't be driving many miles for the next couple of years, it makes sense to get that, right?

I'll try and test drive both, but from what I have read, performance is comparable, right?

Merry Christmas.

I do 5 miles each way to work and have never once seen the DPF light, did 40k miles in my mkII vRS without trouble and my mkIII is fine too.

I would not worry about the DPF. I currently have a Mk6 GTD and commute by car no more than 3 miles each way. No DPF light seen in 3.5 years. The car just works. 

The TDI really comes in handy on those occasional long motorway journeys to France/Germany/Spain. 50+ mpg and cruising at higher speeds doesn't cost the world either..get the Diesel, you'll be fine.

Four things.....and this isnt to suggest the 1.4 isnt any good because its very good indeed but.....

It wont get anywhere near 60mpg, the diesel can quite happily, nearer 70 to be fair if driven carefully; driven like a tool the diesel will still return reasonable MPG, the petrol wont.

Performance wise in most conditions (unless you love ragging the ass out of a petrol which is of course fun but not all the time) id say the diesel has slightly stronger performance of the two....more or less the same power to weight ratio but 52lb/ft of additional torque even produced in a short space of revs is still 52lb/ft and it doesnt need working as hard to produce its turn of speed.

If youre thinking of PCP'ing the car its worth noting that the diesel will probably cost the same, maybe less despite being the more expensive car as its residual value will be stronger.

Like Neily says no need to worry about DPF problems, you'd be unlucky particularly on a MK3 to experience problems. Ive had three VAG cars with DPFs and no problems in nearly 90k's combined motoring, one of them was a PD engined car which were notorious for issues and I never saw the regen light in 27k miles.

I dont think you can go wrong with either really but I still think the diesel makes the strongest case for itself, particularly given its power delivery is considerably better than the previous gen 2.0 TDi CR 140 and its probably quicker than the vRS Blackline MK2 I own currently (i thought so when I test drove one).

Thanks for the advice, you've kind of convinced me of what I already knew.

Or listen to the RAC man who helped out my father-in-law last month:

"Always buy petrol unless you do mega-miles - I spend my days primarily looking after people whose over-complicated diesel engines have gone wrong for whatever reason. They are so complicated due to the fact that they have to have such low emissions these days."

"Modern lean-burn petrols are far, far more reliable in the long term".

Interesting viewpoint from a man who is, I'd suggest, in-the-know. He may not be an engineer, but his testimony is based on evidence.

I'm playing 'devil's' to a point, but worth a thought if you aren't doing too many miles.

Depends wether you prefer the chalk of the tsi or the cheese of the tdi. Both have their advantages though as above some prefer the way a diesel delivers its power. Me I prefer cheese, especially with some onion relish

Think you may have a point of sorts dunc, but was the rescue man generalising and not referring to skodas in particular?

I enjoyed driving my old mk1 tdi more than my current Hyundai 1.4 but granted, that's not a turbo.

With such low mileage the petrol is a no brainer. The 1.4TSI is almost diesel-like for economey yet provides very decent performance and superb refinement. I personally would choose it over both the 1.6 & 2.0 TDI's unless I drove more than 15K miles per year.

No disrespect but I wouldnt call the TSi a no brainer if youre doing low mileage, I dont understand why it would be the case.

Appreciate the diesel is a little more expensive to buy but otherwise over the course of a few years it will be a fair bit cheaper to run, particularly if youre a bit lead footed.

Also the total cost of ownership will likely be similar or less on the basis that the diesel will be worth a fair bit more come trade in time, in terms of PCP costs theres hardly anything to choose between them. Also to get the best from the TSi (in terms of MPG and CO2 output....not necessarily driving experience) you need to tick the DSG box which makes it list almost the same as the diesel manual and definitely makes it more expensive to PCP.

Id say go for the TSi if you much prefer to have a petrol as I know the shorter powerband and engine noise isnt for everyone but its a heart over head decision primarily, I dont see how economically choosing a petrol over a diesel ever really makes alot of sense.

However all this said the DSG gearbox IMO doesnt mate that well with the diesel engines so would always choose a manual TDI, never really gelled with my MK2 vRS Blackline DSG for that reason and is one of the reasons ive decided to sell it

Edited 22 December, 201312 yr by pipsyp

Or listen to the RAC man who helped out my father-in-law last month:

"Always buy petrol unless you do mega-miles - I spend my days primarily looking after people whose over-complicated diesel engines have gone wrong for whatever reason. They are so complicated due to the fact that they have to have such low emissions these days."

"Modern lean-burn petrols are far, far more reliable in the long term".

Interesting viewpoint from a man who is, I'd suggest, in-the-know. He may not be an engineer, but his testimony is based on evidence.

I'm playing 'devil's' to a point, but worth a thought if you aren't doing too many miles.

 

Not wanting to offend RAC or AA staff around the country but you hardly need to hold a degree in automotive engineering to get one of those jobs. I don't think they are any more in the know so to speak.

Modern Diesel or petrol engines will be equally complex in design. You could argue that while the diesels are built to burn cleaner an equal amount of effort goes into making the petrol engines more fuel efficient.

I had exactly the same dilemma, 2.0 tdi estate or 1.4 tsi estate. I was 50 50 in the end, my last car was a diesel and the dpf was always a niggle in the back of my mind as I only do around 10000 miles a year.

In the end, as I wanted the car in 3 weeks, it came down to what was available on the stocklist and how much the pcp cost was taking into account extras. I went for the 2.0 tdi as there were more available and the pcp calculation ended up less, partly due to extrss list.

Car has been fine so far very pokey and good mpg. I still have a slight nag about wondering how the 1.4 tsi would drive, but all in all happy.

Edited 22 December, 201312 yr by jonnybgood

Depends wether you prefer the chalk of the tsi or the cheese of the tdi. Both have their advantages though as above some prefer the way a diesel delivers its power. Me I prefer cheese, especially with some onion relish

Think you may have a point of sorts dunc, but was the rescue man generalising and not referring to skodas in particular?

He was generalising. My father-in-law was in a broken down Peugeot diesel. DPF I believe. 3rd or 4th time it let him down.

Not wanting to offend RAC or AA staff around the country but you hardly need to hold a degree in automotive engineering to get one of those jobs. I don't think they are any more in the know so to speak.

Modern Diesel or petrol engines will be equally complex in design. You could argue that while the diesels are built to burn cleaner an equal amount of effort goes into making the petrol engines more fuel efficient.

They are not necessarily engineers, as I said in the post, but they do have evidence-based opinion based on all the broken down cars they see.

Just his opinion, that's all. And possibly worth listening to if you are torn between petrol and diesel.

No disrespect but I wouldnt call the TSi a no brainer if youre doing low mileage, I dont understand why it would be the case.

Appreciate the diesel is a little more expensive to buy but otherwise over the course of a few years it will be a fair bit cheaper to run, particularly if youre a bit lead footed.

Also the total cost of ownership will likely be similar or less on the basis that the diesel will be worth a fair bit more come trade in time, in terms of PCP costs theres hardly anything to choose between them. Also to get the best from the TSi (in terms of MPG and CO2 output....not necessarily driving experience) you need to tick the DSG box which makes it list almost the same as the diesel manual and definitely makes it more expensive to PCP.

Id say go for the TSi if you much prefer to have a petrol as I know the shorter powerband and engine noise isnt for everyone but its a heart over head decision primarily, I dont see how economically choosing a petrol over a diesel ever really makes alot of sense.

However all this said the DSG gearbox IMO doesnt mate that well with the diesel engines so would always choose a manual TDI, never really gelled with my MK2 vRS Blackline DSG for that reason and is one of the reasons ive decided to sell it

You make some very valid arguments , but my reasons for saying the petrol was a no-brainer are as follows:-

*Running costs (fuel and road tax) are pretty similar. The DSG versions are almost identical, but there is ~£300 difference PA in favour of the diesel when choosing a manual gearbox.

*The 1.4 TSI is extremely refined (even for a petrol). It will run smoother and quieter than any diesel, and heat up quicker in the winter. It will not sound like a bucket of bolts from cold.

*The 1.4TSI is 75Kg (6%) lighter. Handling and braking will be slightly improved.

*No DPF worries for the petrol. Servicing and maintenance will likely be cheaper for the petrol in the long run.

*If you are paying £21K-£24K for a car (base list price for Elagance Estate trim), saving a few hundred quid extra per year on fuel, tax & depreciation will likely come secondary to refinement for most people. There are plenty of cheaper trims and cars to buy if cost of ownership is the main priority.

 

Perhaps "no-brainer" is too strong, but if you value refinement and drive low-to-average mileage, there is little real reason to choose TDI over TSI. Sure, on PCP Finance the diesel will retain much of it's purchase price premium, but with running costs and performance being so similar, the TSI looks a clear winner to me on refinement alone.

Edited 22 December, 201312 yr by Orville

It's really interesting listening to all these opinions, thanks. I plan on going back to the dealer tomorrow and I'll see if I can get a ride in a tsi.

You make some very valid arguments , but my reasons for saying the petrol was a no-brainer are as follows:-

*Running costs (fuel and road tax) are pretty similar. The DSG versions are almost identical, but there is ~£300 difference PA in favour of the diesel when choosing a manual gearbox.

*The 1.4 TSI is extremely refined (even for a petrol). It will run smoother and quieter than any diesel, and heat up quicker in the winter. It will not sound like a bucket of bolts from cold.

*The 1.4TSI is 75Kg (6%) lighter. Handling and braking will be slightly improved.

*No DPF worries for the petrol. Servicing and maintenance will likely be cheaper for the petrol in the long run.

*If you are paying £21K-£24K for a car (base list price for Elagance Estate trim), saving a few hundred quid extra per year on fuel, tax & depreciation will likely come secondary to refinement for most people. There are plenty of cheaper trims and cars to buy if cost of ownership is the main priority.

 

Perhaps "no-brainer" is too strong, but if you value refinement and drive low-to-average mileage, there is little real reason to choose TDI over TSI. Sure, on PCP Finance the diesel will retain much of it's purchase price premium, but with running costs and performance being so similar, the TSI looks a clear winner to me on refinement alone.

That's a fair shout Orville and respect it.

Does have to be said though that for a diesel the TDi (particularly these 2nd gen CR 150/184 units) is pretty refined and provides a much nicer power delivery than the earlier 140hp CR unit, still v linear still but way more punch thoughout the rev range). Diesel is of course not for everyone but as a petrol fan I didn't find it at all dull to drive and way nicer to push along than even a 170 CR Mk2 despite being softer and lacking independent rear suspension.

Also agreed at 1209kgs the TSI estate is bloody light but then again the 150 TDi at 1279kg is v light for a diesel.....particularly given my mk2 weighs about 1420kg. I noticed the weight difference immediately.

I still think there's a greater debate to be had on efficiency though, 100% agree the petrol will be more refined and less agricultural but I can't see the TSI being anything like as frugal as the diesel in the real world unless driven carefully most if not all the time, open the taps on a 1.4 turbo a lot and you're surely looking at mid/late 30's MPG at best. A diesel would suffer too but nothing like as badly.

Having come from a Chevy Captiva diesel to the Octy Estate 2.0tdi the increase in refinement is immense. Engine noise in the Octy is way less, gear box a joy and mpg doubled.

If the 1.4 tsi is even more refined and quiet the driving experience might become too surreal for me.

I am not sure that there is anything 'agricultural' about a modern diesel engine. 

Whatever your decision, in the end you need to be happy with it. But if it really just comes down to running cost (e.g. fuel efficiency), then the diesel is the right choice. The fun factor on the other hand is with the petrol.

I think it just comes down to this - at the moment I'm doing less than 10k a year. My mileage is not likely to increase until 2016, so the "standard" arguments for a diesel aren't valid.

I'm migrating to an estate because of a growing family, but still want a car I can enjoy.

The old argument about only buy a diesel if you do high mileage doesn't really apply to the pcp as costs after taking residual values into account aren't too dissimilar.

However if you're buying outright I reckon in your position you're better off going for petrol.

Once my mileage dropped below 12k I decided to buy a car that I really wanted to drive, irrespective of engine type.

The difference in costs start to dwindle below this point.

I back to back test drove the 2.0 TDI manual then got straight into the 1.4 TSI DSG, chalk and cheese wasn't in it, I thought this diesel is quiet then, I got in the petrol and thought the diesel is noisy & this ain't even running, had there been an old fashioned clock that ticked & tocked I'd have heard it.  I admit the petrol gave a little wind noise then I looked at the speedo, I was doing 90 into a 30 mph head wind. LOL

 

I worked it out at about £170 p.a. more on fuel for the petrol, which to me is worth it just for the class of the car & thats just the word for it too, classy.

 

Regards

T

Choosing out the two when first driven the petrol probably wins on noise refinement driver appeal etc.. But after a month or two when the new car factor has worn off and you get blase to the qualities/issues of your own particular car then economics take over and then I think the diesel comes into its own.

I think it just comes down to this - at the moment I'm doing less than 10k a year. My mileage is not likely to increase until 2016, so the "standard" arguments for a diesel aren't valid.

I'm migrating to an estate because of a growing family, but still want a car I can enjoy.

How long do you intend to keep the car? If it will be a long-term keeper then depreciation will not matter and the petrol will be an easier choice. If you intend to sell after 2-3 years the diesels better residuals makes it a closer call. The £1700 difference in purchase price will take 5-8 years to make up on fuel and tax savings alone, dependent upon whether you go DSG or Manual.

 

Ideally try test driving both and see which you prefer.