Hey all, I have been pondering over the last few days whether or not to remove the rear weights or not on my Vrs mk2 and after reading the pros & cons on here I decided to do it and was quite pleased I only had to undo the clips on one side of the bumper to get access.

The shock I had when I felt the weight of these 3 weights, was not expecting that at all, feels way more than 25kg.

After putting fabianski back together I took it round the loop road in the private industrial estate I work in and reli through it in hard on the corners to see if it would have any adverse handling and to me it was just the same as always ( massive understeer )

So to finish I would say to anyone thinking of doing it go for it as to me it seems like an awful waste of weight to have to carry around without and good reason

Marty

There was a good reason in VAG's thinking.

 

The expensive design of the weights and cost of materials would have bought good springs and better handling.

25 kg of Pig Iron & the fasteners is a rather expensive thing to put on one model of the VAG range.

(note how well they are coated compared to other Fabias

that do not even get a Rust Inhibiting coating on the rear drum brakes.)

 

It made the Hatch on paper weigh 5 kg more than the more expensive vRS Estate.

Had it on paper 1 mph slower, and a second or something slower to 62 mph.

Had it with the same Emissions as the estate.

 

Showed it as slower than the Ibiza, Polo & Audi that cost more, and actually weigh more, but are given by VAG officially faster top speeds, 

acceleration and lower Emissions and VED.

Polo gets the Battery in the boot.

They also put Spare wheels in the Skodas as Standard to have their Unladen Weight looking heavier.

The Seat, VW & Audi have the spare as an Option so that 19 kg is not in their Unladen Weight before the EU test.

 

The weights are just Sandbagging,

If they were there for Handling they would be on the Monte Carlos.

 

george

I totally agree with you, would not look good for VAG having a fabia out pacing the polo gti ????

So next on my list of tinkering is a set of springs and RARB

Marty

Has anyone considered that they are to counterbalance the engine? It is offset to the right side of the car, presumably to get space for the dsg. Not a major issue but just my thoughts.

Also could be the above reasons! ;-)

Hey all, I have been pondering over the last few days whether or not to remove the rear weights or not on my Vrs mk2 and after reading the pros & cons on here I decided to do it and was quite pleased I only had to undo the clips on one side of the bumper to get access. The shock I had when I felt the weight of these 3 weights, was not expecting that at all, feels way more than 25kg.After putting fabianski back together I took it round the loop road in the private industrial estate I work in and reli through it in hard on the corners to see if it would have any adverse handling and to me it was just the same as always ( massive understeer )So to finish I would say to anyone thinking of doing it go for it as to me it seems like an awful waste of weight to have to carry around without and good reason Marty

Hi Marty, good to here the weights are off, the most obvious reason for the weights to be there is to slow the vrs down and make it look below par when compared to the other vag brands, well at least on paper. This is just my penny worth and could be a mile off but the weights may make it pitch heavier to the rear from a fast standing start which would help induce wheel spin and electronic intervention which could easily add those few extra tenths to the 0-60 times published and my theory in my head would say that the estate though 5kg lighter overall has an equally similar tendency because the weight in the body sits higher up and more rear bound and that brings me on to another point that the vrs as standard rides taller than the polo, Ibiza and A1, this would also contribute to the pitching effect.

Marty, does it understeer both on and off throttle?

Wrighty

What we need is someone to measure the corner weights with and without the ballast !

 

Regards

 

Mike

Sorry couldn't resist... 

 

Just had a quick google and looking at pics of where the weights are positioned I would say they are there for a reason,

 

If they were in middle then yeah fair enough but to hang that much weight on rear corner there must be a handling reason,

 

Do all the vrs's have them weights there, ie the LHD ones aswell????

Yes they are on the opposite side to the driver on left hand drive cars.

They equally make no difference to the handling when removed, and do help in reducing wheel spin when removed.

 

As to being needed, the Estate weighs 5 kg less unladen, has a body with an extra 9 3/4" at the rear,

but gets different rear springs with a different poundage to the hatch.

**Handles nicer than a hatch as well IMO.**

 

Very heath Robinson Technology on the vRS hatch.

Some Designer must have been set the task to design the Weights, get them approved, manufactured, and then safety tested.

25 kg bolted to a rear crash bar, left or right. (not a cheap thing to do for 1 model of car)

 

                *******'Vorst sprung technic'. = 'Progress through technology'.********

These are the days of looking for Economy & lower Emissions, yet VAG are happy to sand bag the Sister Model that costs least to buy.

 

VW do not even bring their self to publish the unladen weight for a 5 door Polo GTI,

They had to correct their first published figures for the early models,

so they give the 3 door now as Kerb Weight 1269 KG,

 No spare wheel and battery is in the boot for handling balance, (centre of boot.)

and say

" the 5 door unladen weight will increase by 25 kg more".

 

So 5 Door VW Polo GTI 1294 kg Kerb Weight.

3 Door 1269 kg

 

Audi A1 185ps 3 door and 5 doors also porkers.

(they give the Kerb Weight of the 3 door with no spare for the 5 door, which can not be correct, '1215 KG',

no weights on there, because weights & Spare would have the Unladen at 1258 kg.

 

vRS Hatch 1,243 kg. & that is with 25 KG bolted to the rear crash bar,  

vRS Estate 1238 kg, Unladen. & that their weight with spares in.

Odd that cars can not be weighed with a Full tank of petrol and a 100 kg weight to give a true idea of weight.

 

My vRS, minus weights, but full tank of petrol, extra 10 litres of petrol, 2 spare Gigaro, Trolley jack, tools.

& me at 120 kg weighs 1440  kg on a weigh bridge.

 

george

 

What these weights look like, for those that have not seen them, notice at the same side as the exhaust on a RHD car.

so might make more sence on a LHD car,  not an good example of Balanced Suspension. 

& stick 4 fat people in a car with some luggage., and 'Unladen Corner Weights are out the window.

But you start the journey carrying 25 kg extra on the very rear of the car.

(& Top Gear driving the Hardkott Pass.)

Hi Marty, good to here the weights are off, the most obvious reason for the weights to be there is to slow the vrs down and make it look below par when compared to the other vag brands, well at least on paper. This is just my penny worth and could be a mile off but the weights may make it pitch heavier to the rear from a fast standing start which would help induce wheel spin and electronic intervention which could easily add those few extra tenths to the 0-60 times published and my theory in my head would say that the estate though 5kg lighter overall has an equally similar tendency because the weight in the body sits higher up and more rear bound and that brings me on to another point that the vrs as standard rides taller than the polo, Ibiza and A1, this would also contribute to the pitching effect.

Marty, does it understeer both on and off throttle?

Wrighty

Hey Wrighty

When I put it into a left hand bend last night at 6mph (???? might be digit missing there) off throttle I could feel it starting to wash out at the front but very minimal, same corner but about 5 mph faster while on throttle and the front just wouldn't stick at all even with a bit of feathering.

To be fair my car ain't lowered yet and I will be putting ARB's on soon ????

Marty

Do you think it's a good Idea to remove something that is obviously there for a reason?

No,

but is it obviously there for a particular safety ot technical reason for them to be there.?

Do they improve the cars brake bias, or handling.??

 

Manufacturers including Skoda/VAG are happy to sell a car, that can then have the Rear Seats removed totally,

car becomes lighter when driven empty,

then the space available gets filled up with heavier stuff probably

 

Skoda delete the spare wheel from cars and sell them as an option.

So happy to have a car 19kg lighter, then heavier again once the spare is in.

 

We put our luggage and shopping in a car, and passengers in the rear, and then allow them to exit the car,

and we drive on, not replacing their weight with some sacks of potatoes to compensate.

 

Actually my passengers are mostly potatoes.

No,

but is it obviously there for a particular safety ot technical reason for them to be there.?

Do they improve the cars brake bias, or handling.??

 

Manufacturers including Skoda/VAG are happy to sell a car, that can then have the Rear Seats removed totally,

car becomes lighter when driven empty,

then the space available gets filled up with heavier stuff probably

 

Skoda delete the spare wheel from cars and sell them as an option.

So happy to have a car 19kg lighter, then heavier again once the spare is in.

 

We put our luggage and shopping in a car, and passengers in the rear, and then allow them to exit the car,

and we drive on, not replacing their weight with some sacks of potatos to compensate.

 

But  manufactures build cars to carry passengers and luggage safely. The weights are there for a reason and removing them could upset the balance of the car. I suppose the rear seat passengers could help get the car out of a ditch when it ends up in one.

 

Just my thoughts

Best that you do not do it then.

?

How many have ended up in ditches since your post 2 years ago,

about the possibiltiy of ending up in a ditch if you remove the weights, due to a light rear end.?

 

Could, Should, Would,  but does it,

or are we talking Might, or just Sh!te?

 

I have not heard from any of the members that removed the weights of any crashing into ditches or adverse handling.

But each to their own.

Skoda never fitted the Lowering Springs or ARBs as standard, 

or wider wheels/tyres.

 

As long as your Insurance Company knows you are Modifying a car, and the Decleration Sheet is completed,

each to their own.

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/223019-removing-rear-weights-mk2-fabia-vrs-tsi-hatch-guide

 

george

Just a thought.

 

I wonder how many buyers of used vRS are driving around with no idea if the car still has the weights fitted,

or if they are already removed.

Just as they have no idea if the Steering or Brake assist or XDS is changed from Factory Setting,

Be that more or less Assistance,

or even if the ECU has a re-map sitting on it right now.

 

Skoda Dealerships do not seem to check these things as a matter of course before selling as Approved Used Skodas.

Now this is an interesting topic. My understanding is that excessive weight over the front wheels gives understeer and that a 50/50 weight balance gives the best handling characteristics.

Therefore, removing rear weight would cause a deterioration of the handling towards excessive understeer, followed by lift off oversteer or oversteer when braking in mid corner.

Manufacturers err on the side of all drivers panicking when finding themselves too fast in a corner i.e. lift off and brake =safer understeer characteristics.

Therefore remove your tail weight if you are a very experienced driver and probably have race experience.

By the way if you are a race driver, oversteer is a slower way round a corner than neutral or slight understeer.

My vRS estate is as perfect as I require and handles better than any car I have owned (no tail weight required on estate).

I would be very interested to hear counter arguments from those more knowledgable than I.

Tony :think:

You genuinely think 25kg makes 0-62 1 second slower?!

As a side note, Audi did very similar with the TT when they all got recalled for spinning out on autobahns. They fitted the rear spoiler, ESP and a ~25kg ballast weight behind the crash bar on the near side rear of the car! Maybe it's because the vrs is massively tall and gets a bit wobbly in the wind lol..

George,have Skoda ever officially stated the exact design purpose of the weights?

Never seen anything from Skoda or VAG on the weights.

 

We are not talking race cars here, & seconds hardly matter, except to VAG that always make the more expensive models have better figures,

 

but if we do talk race cars or performance and weights, we could talk about the Handicap weights added in BTCC

from 9kg -45 kg

Bolted in the car, not out back to make it tail happy.

 

'Success Ballast'.

http://www.btccpages.com/btcc/regs.php#ballast

 

I would imagine anyone Removing weights on a vRS are doing other changes,

Adjustments done with plugging in and altering Steering assist say, and Brake Assist.

ARB added , that is weight added, (it all counts no matter how little) Lowering Springs fitted, Removing the spare wheel, Tyres and treads & wheels changed, so unsprung weight, and checking & adjusting pressures

and trying for the best handling and traction from the Front Wheel Drive. Maybe Brake Modifications being done.

Worth getting the Normal Running all up weight including driver, before choosing your upgraded Dampers, 

and doing the alignment, and checking Corner Weights with full fuel load carried.

 

Then the car has ESP, & TC that can be switched off, and XDS operating until the Brakes/Brake Fluid gets too hot and that stops operating. So lots going on to think about, more than 25 KG bolted on or not to the far back corner.

You genuinely think 25kg makes 0-62 1 second slower?!..

Not a chance, there would be virtually no discernible difference at all in acceleration in car that weights as much as that with just 25kg shaved off the massive mountain of mass it's hauling around.

Hey Wrighty

When I put it into a left hand bend last night at 6mph (???? might be digit missing there) off throttle I could feel it starting to wash out at the front but very minimal, same corner but about 5 mph faster while on throttle and the front just wouldn't stick at all even with a bit of feathering.

To be fair my car ain't lowered yet and I will be putting ARB's on soon ????

Marty

Thanks Marty, sounds familiar to the mk1 vrs, lowering should help, I don't have experience of an rarb, but I will try one when I finally get my mk2, it feels like eternity waiting.

I always ran Goodyear Eagle F1's on the mk1 and found that driving it like a go-kart bought out the best of front end grip avalible. This is how i found worked for me. When entering the corner be off throttle or better still trail braking with ever decreasing pressure on the pedal until you get to the apex and be smooth, this helps push the weight in to the nose of the car and aids the outside front tyre to grip, onec you hit apex and start to open out the steering to exit the corner start to re-apply throttle smoothly and this allows best use of tyre grip for traction off corner, you should start to feel where the grip is. This tends to work best at medium to low speed corners as faster stuff the nutural safe handling is a nice balence. Just to note that this is just my opinion so it may not work for others and it takes practice to understand but if you try it please be responsible about where you practice this, I take no resposiblity for someone else's snotted up tyres ;-)

There is no actual accuracy in the Figures that VAG publish for any of their products,  Not real world figures,

Top Speeds, 0-60, etc, they choose a number, almost any number.,

Mostly they better these figures.

Higher or slower numbers effected by the RRP of the vehicle at times.

1 mph and 3 seconds 1 way or another is there for their Sales & Customers.

Some might be near that figures and some better them by a good margin.

Like BHP figures, those are Minimum Figures for cars,

put the cars on a Dyno once run in and see how those can vary car/engine to car/engine.

 

Once VAG give them the Media just keep publishing them.

http://vrsworld.co.uk/skoda_vrs_specs.html

 

'Gathered from Credible Sources', so that will not be VW then.

http://zeroto60times.com/Volkswagen-VW-0-60-mph-Times.html

It might make a .1 second difference.

 

Incidentally, Australian Motor Magazine tested a whole lot of cars with the same driver on the same day last year. The Polo GTI was 3/100 of second quicker than the Fabia RS 0-100 (6.76 to 6.79), and the Audi A1 Sport was slightly slower again (6.80).   Maybe some extra equipment added (dead) weight to the Audi?

They are there for a reason.  A car manufacturer wouldn't spend 10p on parts that were not necessary, let alone a few £. I would think that they're there to give the car a nice safe understeering characteristic, so that they don't keep flying off the road.

They are there for a reason.  A car manufacturer wouldn't spend 10p on parts that were not necessary, let alone a few £. I would think that they're there to give the car a nice safe understeering characteristic, so that they don't keep flying off the road.

 

they should have put a spare engine in the boot instead