Tyre wear on my VRS

[neiln]

It reduces the likelihood of lift off over steer, slightly

[goldfish]

I had 4WD cars, always the front wears faster. It is also the breaking on the front wheels generate the tyre wear.

Incidentally, our current s-max 2.0 ecoboost only did 35k but already on the last leg of the 3rd set front. 2 set of rear, 2nd set still very good condition. The 1st set was changed prematually because of a puncture.

[Orville]

Replacing two tyres at a time is more time consuming (backwards and forwards to garages) and can easily be more costly because many garages do 4 for 3 or similar offers, but few give discounts for two or fewer tyres. Being able to rotate tyres myself means that I always replace 4 tyres at a time unless one suffers a blowout or irreparable damage. It also ensures that I keep tyres of the same age, compound and type on all 4 wheels, rather than playing the lottery of whether the garage has two of my existing tyres in stock.

[David 8]

What type of milage, M-ways all day or stop start, traffic lots of corners and braking ??

[FUBAR]

Wow that's a shocking rate! Same tyres on my Mk2 from new and I am still on them with hitting 22K miles today. They will be needing changed soon though as I am almost at the same level of wear you are. 

[Stuarted]

Why is that?

.

See my post (no. 24) in this thread:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/301763-tyre-advise/?hl=%2Bgracefully#entry3599490

 

[Stuarted]

Replacing two tyres at a time is more time consuming (backwards and forwards to garages) and can easily be more costly because many garages do 4 for 3 or similar offers, but few give discounts for two or fewer tyres. Being able to rotate tyres myself means that I always replace 4 tyres at a time unless one suffers a blowout or irreparable damage. It also ensures that I keep tyres of the same age, compound and type on all 4 wheels, rather than playing the lottery of whether the garage has two of my existing tyres in stock.

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Generally, I agree.  However if you plan to replace tyres as a complete set of four (and there several advantages in doing that, as you point out), you must rotate them regularly (say every 6,000 miles) especially with a FWD car where the fronts wear a lot faster.  Otherwise you either end up throwing away a pair of only part-worn rear tyres or keeping the front ones until they are dangerously worn.  And you need to do this swapping regularly, not just once half-way through the tyres' life, otherwise you end up with tyres on the back which are much more worn than the ones on the front - bad idea.

OK I've got a trolley jack and axle stands and a driveway and (for the Mazda) a spare wheel stored in my garage, and I'm used to changing wheels, but not everyone is and for some owners regular wheel-swapping might incur the cost and inconvenience of a trip to a tyre fitter's workshop.  Although at least swapping your own wheels in daylight in the dry at home, sheltered from traffic, is good practice for doing it at the side of a dark, busy, unlit motorway in freezing horizontal sleet.  Deep joy.

[Dodgy]

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See my post (no. 24) in this thread:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/301763-tyre-advise/?hl=%2Bgracefully#entry3599490

 

 

I hear you, it just sounds counter-intuitive. I would expect the end of the car doing the most work would wear quickest, that's why I would expect on a front wheel drive car for instance, to have the best tyre on the front.

 

I'm not arguing, just putting my thoughts across.

[Timoctav]

Your lucky with your sports car - mine has different tyres front /rear so rotating them is not an option. New tyres 11,000 miles ago on it and just about half worn, fortunately. Similarly with the Octavia, but I don't drive it hard and most of the miles on motorway so no twisty roads which would wear the tyres out more quickly.

[Orville]

*My 4WD Subaru's used to average 6-8K miles before needing new boots. I drove them reasonably hard but nothing excessive. They did go on track days but I used separate (old) sets of tires then. The fronts wore slightly quicker so rotation was needed.

*My FWD cars have mostly averaged  10-12K miles with rotation at the mid-point due to the fronts wearing upon average twice as fast as the rears.

*My 87' RWD Cossie managed very low miles (perhaps 5-6K), but this was due to relatively skinny tires being unable to put the power down. The rears melted away very quickly indeed, but I was also much younger and in more of a hurry to get places.

*My 2009 3-Series did 10-12K miles, similar to most of my FWD cars. It was probably about the most balanced car in terms of tire wear, being pretty equal front and rear.

 

The biggest decider for tire wear is not the car but rather the driver and type of miles driven. If 90% of  miles are eaten up on the motorway you will obtain a much higher life than if 90% is driven around town,or screeching around roundabouts. Every driver gets different results.

[Stuarted]

I hear you, it just sounds counter-intuitive. I would expect the end of the car doing the most work would wear quickest, that's why I would expect on a front wheel drive car for instance, to have the best tyre on the front.

 

I'm not arguing, just putting my thoughts across.

.

I agree, it is counter-intuitive, and I (like you) didn't believe it.  There was a time when some experts would have said "best tyres on the front, 'cos those are the wheels doing important stuff like braking and steering".

However, in the light of latest research, nowadays all tyre manufacturers and tyre-fitting companies seem to recommend best-tyres-on-the-back because apparently if the back end goes, you wil not be able to do anything about it and you will get no warning before you leave the stage backwards.  And I guess modern cars are designed to cope reasonably well with frontal impacts.  I know of at least two experienced drivers who - when driving normally - went off backwards without warning, and they each had rear tyres more worn (although not particularly badly worn) than the front.

It woiuld be interesting to hear a comment from any professionals in the tyre business if they read this. 

[Guest Cossiecol]

Ok so I don't exactly drive like a saint but 3000 miles in and my front tyres are about 1mm away from the depth marker.I know the Continental Contact 2's are known for poor wear but surely it's not unreasonable for me to say this wear is excessive?Lewjo (Joseph)

Any update on the wear pattern?

[Orville]

It's virtually impossible to get the back end out on an Octy VRS (and Golf GTI) when trying to do so deliberately due to VW nanny systems braking the inside wheel when it detects oversteer. I would stick the best tyres on the front end if I had to choose

[LewJo]

Sorry, been a bit busy to catchup on here. The wear is even across both fronts and the rears are like new.

I don't drive like an absolute fool but I don't corner all that quick either. Granted I've had a few brisk pull offs but I this car doesn't get driven any differently to when the wife had a Fabia VRS and we got 10k out of the dunlops that were on there.

Lewjo (Joseph)

[LewJo]

Oh forgot to mention the type of roads, mainly I commute via motorway, sometimes I take a duel carriageway with lots of round abouts.

When cornering I don't drive all that hard, certainly not considering since I've had the car it's been wet almost all of the time.

I think I'll pop into my dealer, got a few other things I need to discuss with them anyway.

Lewjo (Joseph)

[ozoccy]

Front tyres do most of the braking and have the biggest impact on cornering and control. As an example, not sure if anyone has experienced a blow out, rear is relatively easy to control while front is a real hand full.

Best tyres always on the front!

Sent using tapatalk

[vrskeith]

Both my partner I got approx 25k out of sat of Dunlops and Goodyears respectively from our Fabia vRs'

We both have different driving styles. We both enjoy our quick driving. So 10k would consider a disaster

[Guest Cossiecol]

Interesting to hear what the dealer have to say about the tyre wear.

although it seems that you do have a harsh driving style if you can burn through tyres that fast.

Edited 27 January, 2014 by Cossiecol

[Stuarted]

It's virtually impossible to get the back end out on an Octy VRS (and Golf GTI) when trying to do so deliberately due to VW nanny systems braking the inside wheel when it detects oversteer. I would stick the best tyres on the front end if I had to choose

.

Quite probably true, but we're talking about the rear end suddenly and unexpectedly completley letting go and the car consequently spinning.  The VW "nanny system" won't be the slightest help once the wheels have let  go - applying the brakes to a wheel which has already lost adhesion will not achieve anything at all.

And we are not talking about a situaton when a driver is trying to provoke a rear-wheel slide, which may indeed be virtually impossible.  We are talking about sudden and completely unexpected loss of grip.  Even the world's best drivers in F1 cars spin occasionally if their rear wheels suddenly lose adhesion.

Did you read my link?  We are not talking about a progessive slide here, we are talking about the near-instantaneous WHAP as the car simply flicks round, a situation in which you are left with no control whatever.

I used to believe (for the same reasons as you) that it was sensible to put the better tyres in the front.  I only changed my mind after reading the latest advice from tyre companies and from tyre-fitting companies, and talking to a couple of skilled and very experienced friends (who also used to think 'best-tyres-on-front) who had each gone off the road due to sudden, completley unexpected loss of rear-end grip, when driving quite sensibly with their families on board.  They, too, like me, now agree - best tyres on the back.

Edited 27 January, 2014 by Stuarted

[Orville]

The problem is that most accidents are not caused whilst driving around corners quickly in wet/slippery conditions when wearing bald tyres on the rear.

 

Most accidents are front/rear-end shunts where the person behind has lost concentration and not braked fast enough to avoid hitting the car who has slowed or stopped in front. Within this scenario (or a scenario where a child runs out or car pulls in front of you) good grip at the braking wheels, ~85% of which is performed at the front is much more important than grip at the rear.

 

Losing the rear-end tends to be caused more by driver error/stupidity rather than having less tread on the back than on the fronts. The reason professional driver have rear-end moments is due to them pushing the absolute limits of evenly front/rear balanced cars. Octy's do not have such neutral handling and will absolutely not push the rear out under normal driving/braking conditions whilst wearing road-legal tyres.

 

For >99.9% of the time the Octy VRS is front-wheel limited in terms of traction and braking. Thus it makes most practical sense to wear the most grippy tyres at the front, rather than compromise safety during the vast majority of driving conditions. I imagine that very few Octy  owners have ever experienced an over-steer moment, much less a quote: "near instantaneous WHAP" whilst driving on public roads within any condition.

Edited 27 January, 2014 by Orville

[LewJo]

I've figured out the cause!

Now the wear is even across the width of the tyre but not the circumference. I was rather puzzled by this until when we arrived at work the wife was parking it and with the car stationary was turning the wheel from lock to lock.

I'm going to go ahead and say mystery solved!

Lewjo (Joseph)

[andyvee]

I thought the primary driver for putting new tyres on the rear was regarding the age of the tyres. If you just kept replacing front tyres as they wear out you will have the same set on the rear many years later. The idea is to put new tyres on the rear, then your old tyres on the front where they will wear out quicker, and then need replacing.

Sent from my phone so please excuse brevity and spelling

[gullyg]

I've figured out the cause!

Now the wear is even across the width of the tyre but not the circumference. I was rather puzzled by this until when we arrived at work the wife was parking it and with the car stationary was turning the wheel from lock to lock.

I'm going to go ahead and say mystery solved!

Lewjo (Joseph)

Ouch - that's an expensive habit that She Who Must Not Be Named does...

 

Causes a fair few arguments as well.

[themanwithnoaim]

Page 230 Octavia manual "Always fit new tres or those with deeper tread depth to the fronts wheels"

 

Nuff said

 

Regards

T

[Stuarted]

Like I said in my link, that is the one area where I disagree with the manual.

I used to believe the same as you.  However I am prepared to believe that the tyre manufacturers and the tyre fitters know more about this than me.  They would not have changed their advice in recent years without good reason.

Have you ever spun a car accidentally whilst driving on the road?  Have you ever spoken to anyone who has?  It's much better to be in a car which is moving forward in a more-or-less straight line, where you may have some chance of controlling it, than in a car which is spinning  where you have absolutely no control whatsover over anything until it eventually comes to a halt.  Neither of the people I know who spun were expecting it and they were not driving recklessly or cornering hard, yet their cars enexpectedly spun off the road.  They did not have bald, faulty or unsuitable tyres on the back - just tyres which were worn more than the fronts.