Grrr S.  H.    1.   T

Biggest problem with the Octaiva vRS is there's always been to many Special Editions, seems they just do it for any excuse.  Won't be long before the normal ones are the rare ones.....

Can't agree with you there. The mk1 octy had 1 limited edition, and the mk2 had 1 limited edition and a run out model that was not a limited edition, just a vrs with extras to get rid off them.

I'm curious why seat are allowed tho

Because vag market them as the sporty brand within the group.

There is a video showing the Golf PP vs standard GTI lap time difference

. With 10bhp (~5%) more power and the E-diff the GTI PP's lap times are ~2% faster (75.6 vs 77.2 secs).

 

One thing that journalists keep saying is that the standard Golf (and Octy) does not have an LSD. This is untrue because both cars have a very effective standard diff (plus XDS). Without a diff the wheels would squeal when going around roundabouts because power/speed from the drive shafts would be locked. Almost every FWD car ever has had some form of LSD.

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One thing that journalists keep saying is that the standard Golf (and Octy) does not have an LSD. This is untrue because both cars have a very effective standard diff (plus XDS). Without a diff the wheels would squeal when going around roundabouts because power/speed from the drive shafts would be locked. Almost every FWD car ever has had some form of LSD.

Of course they have a diff, but not a limited-slip diff... The XDS has similar results to an LSD, but via the brakes, not inside the diff. Very few FWD cars have an LSD. Most have a regular open diff with some electronic aid using the brakes to limit rotation differences. 

Every car has a differential. It allows the inside wheel, going a shorter distance arounda corner, to turn more slowly. Without a diff cars would twist drive shafts and destroy tyres.  That is different from a limited slip diff though, these limit the difference in rotation between the 2 ends of an axle. 

Exactly, the Octavia will have an open differential. This by nature of its deisgn will allow the wheels to travel at different speeds for cornering however the downside is it will always provide power to the wheel with least resistance. My wifes little mx5 happens to have a torsen LSD which will mechanically lock up the differential when you loose traction, it does this cleverly with a set torque bias ratio which I won't pretend to fully understand and explain without reading up on it myself but its very effective and stops peg legged wheelspin when mashing the accelerator in low grip situations.

The Octavia uses clever electronics to brake that spinning wheel so the differential will then put the power back to the other wheel

Edited 15 May, 201412 yr by V6Jules

Yes please!

Hmm, if it was awd and 280hp, I might have been tempted to chop mine in for one, but not for fwd. Not that I think that's an issue (should be capable of delivering it OK on fwd if set up right) but that combination of awd and power would have floated my boat.

There is a video showing the Golf PP vs standard GTI lap time difference

. With 10bhp (~5%) more power and the E-diff the GTI PP's lap times are ~2% faster (75.6 vs 77.2 secs).

One thing that journalists keep saying is that the standard Golf (and Octy) does not have an LSD. This is untrue because both cars have a very effective standard diff (plus XDS). Without a diff the wheels would squeal when going around roundabouts because power/speed from the drive shafts would be locked. Almost every FWD car ever has had some form of LSD.

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Untrue about every car having some form of lsd. Standard diff is totally different from an LSD. XDS is no where near as good as a mechanical proper lsd. Go amd drive a car with an lsd and you'll soon notice the difference.

Untrue about every car having some form of lsd. Standard diff is totally different from an LSD. XDS is no where near as good as a mechanical proper lsd. Go amd drive a car with an lsd and you'll soon notice the difference.

My comment regarding all cars having an LSD was incorrect. However the real benefits of an actual LSD (rather than the Octy XDS+diff or BMW's E-LSD etc) can only be fully appreciated on a track I have driven the Golf GTI PP, Focus RS and of course my Octy VRS. On normal roads the Focus feels more planted than either of the VAG cars, even though it lacks an LSD. An LSD is certainly beneficial when accelerating out of corners whilst at the limits of traction, but a well sorted and balanced chassis is decisive. Obviously having both would be ideal but no hot-hatch has yet found the perfect balance. Focus chassis with VAG diff would likely be very nice indeed. Standard diff's and LSD's are mechanically very similar apart from added clutch plates on true LSD's. For ~99% of road driven miles it will be near impossible to tell the difference between the same car with and without VAG's LSD. On a track or on empty twisty roads an LSD will of course edge it. I would certainly rather have one than not, but as I gave up race days when I parted with my Subarus I can live without it. On public roads being able to exit a corner one or two mph faster makes no odds.

Edited 17 May, 201412 yr by Orville

My comment regarding all cars having an LSD was incorrect. However the real benefits of an actual LSD (rather than the Octy XDS+diff or BMW's E-LSD etc) can only be fully appreciated on a track I have driven the Golf GTI PP, Focus RS and of course my Octy VRS. On normal roads the Focus feels more planted than either of the VAG cars, even though it lacks an LSD. An LSD is certainly beneficial when accelerating out of corners whilst at the limits of traction, but a well sorted and balanced chassis is decisive. Obviously having both would be ideal but no hot-hatch has yet found the perfect balance. Focus chassis with VAG diff would likely be very nice indeed. Standard diff's and LSD's are mechanically very similar apart from added clutch plates on true LSD's. For ~99% of road driven miles it will be near impossible to tell the difference between the same car with and without VAG's LSD. On a track or on empty twisty roads an LSD will of course edge it. I would certainly rather have one than not, but as I gave up race days when I parted with my Subarus I can live without it. On public roads being able to exit a corner one or two mph faster makes no odds.

Does the Focus RS not have a Quaife LSD? When added to the Revoknuckle suspension this was the reason why they claimed it could handle 300 bhp through fwd.

Sorry to be an engineering bore - the LSD in the Focus RS is also a mechanical version, without clutch plates as it uses planetary / sun gearing to achieve the same effect as the more traditional LSD.

Edited 18 May, 201412 yr by Black_Sheep

My comment regarding all cars having an LSD was incorrect. However the real benefits of an actual LSD (rather than the Octy XDS+diff or BMW's E-LSD etc) can only be fully appreciated on a track I have driven the Golf GTI PP, Focus RS and of course my Octy VRS. On normal roads the Focus feels more planted than either of the VAG cars, even though it lacks an LSD. An LSD is certainly beneficial when accelerating out of corners whilst at the limits of traction, but a well sorted and balanced chassis is decisive. Obviously having both would be ideal but no hot-hatch has yet found the perfect balance. Focus chassis with VAG diff would likely be very nice indeed. Standard diff's and LSD's are mechanically very similar apart from added clutch plates on true LSD's. For ~99% of road driven miles it will be near impossible to tell the difference between the same car with and without VAG's LSD. On a track or on empty twisty roads an LSD will of course edge it. I would certainly rather have one than not, but as I gave up race days when I parted with my Subarus I can live without it. On public roads being able to exit a corner one or two mph faster makes no odds.

Got to disagree about the diff only being useful on track. I ran a Megane r26 (running circa 270bhp) for a year and the LSD was incredible. Zero under steer, incredible turn in and superb traction on the road. I ran a Clio Trophy prior to the Megane and even coming from 'the greatest hot hatch ever built' - it really was by the way - the diff made a huge difference to the Megane.

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Got to disagree about the diff only being useful on track. I ran a Megane r26 (running circa 270bhp) for a year and the LSD was incredible. Zero under steer, incredible turn in and superb traction on the road. I ran a Clio Trophy prior to the Megane and even coming from 'the greatest hot hatch ever built' - it really was by the way - the diff made a huge difference to the Megane.

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Sacre bleu Rodney, sacre bleu

with 280bhp through the front wheels alone would anyone care to estimate the life expectancy of the front tyres?

with 280bhp through the front wheels alone would anyone care to estimate the life expectancy of the front tyres?

That is dependant on the way its driven and the tyre (compound) in question. On my last fwd hatchback (330bhp and 320 lb/ft torque, Quaife equipped) Id see around 9,000 miles from a pair of RainSports and Toyo T1R's.

Untrue about every car having some form of lsd. Standard diff is totally different from an LSD. XDS is no where near as good as a mechanical proper lsd. Go amd drive a car with an lsd and you'll soon notice the difference.

 

McLaren P1 runs an open diff*...

 

*yes, it uses the brakes/electronics as a clever e-diff, more precise than old-fangled/crude mechanical diffs.

McLaren P1 runs an open diff*...

 

*yes, it uses the brakes/electronics as a clever e-diff, more precise than old-fangled/crude mechanical diffs.

  ..and im sure the electronics and software is the same between the P1 and VAG hatchbacks.

 

Having had cars with and without a proper mechanical diff and one that had it installed... a proper mechanical diff for me every time please! Having said that, the Cupra 280 and Golf PP e-diffs are getting very good now.

This very, very old video in a rather charming way captures the relative simplicity of a differential (not an LSD), might be interesting for some. I like the way they progressively make the differential more effective at 3:25 onwards using a model..

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAw79386WI#t=160

McLaren P1 runs an open diff*...

*yes, it uses the brakes/electronics as a clever e-diff, more precise than old-fangled/crude mechanical diffs.

Don't think you can really compare to xds! If vag had a rear wheel drive car I doubt xds would allow you to do power slides

Whatever diff it has, I reckon it would be great fun!

simple explanation of the different diffs here, including brakes used as an e-diff

Thanks for the link.

Would also like to see the adaptive suspension on this version of the vRS

.... If vag had a rear wheel drive car I doubt xds would allow you to do power slides

VAG do have RWD cars - but you don't need an xds type differential on a RWD car as it's only there on Golfs to mask the limitations of higher powered engines driving only the front wheels (torque steer etc)