"Conspiracy Theorists"

[TroyChallenger]

BJM, on 21 Jul 2014 - 18:14, said:

Surely the whole point about the "slating" of Conspiracy Theorists is that, by and large, to them EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, and every theory is automatically believed.

 

I think you lose the argument the moment that anyone uses the label "conspiracy theorist" to refer to a free-thinking individual who doesn't blindly believe that everything he or she is told is gospel.

 

Sure, there are a large number of fruitcakes out there who will tell you the earth is flat but that applies equally to the human race in general.

[RainbowFire]

I think you lose the argument the moment that anyone uses the label "conspiracy theorist" to refer to a free-thinking individual who doesn't blindly believe that everything he or she is told is gospel.

 

Sure, there are a large number of fruitcakes out there who will tell you the earth is flat but that applies equally to the human race in general.

 

I disagree. I don't believe everything that I read or hear, however, I don't feel the need to try and "fill in the blanks" or connect incidents together and conclude that there's a government trying to do something underhanded somewhere to someone. Reading through the diatribe that is regularly written on here by several individuals, the theories are quite laughable, but always presents as "a truth you didn't know" and we should "wake up and smell the roses", even when those theories contradict the evidence that's presented. What happens then is we get "well the evidence has be changed to fit someone's underhanded version of events". A conspiracy theorist will never accept the truth, because it *has* to be a lie, and there *has* to be different explanation, even if that explanation ends up being more laughable than an EastEnders storyline.

 

There is a member on here who sees conspiracy everywhere: BT, British Gas, big business, little business, our government, everyone else's governments, the local council.....you name it: there'll be a conspiracy about it somewhere, never once has there been any credible evidence to back any it up.

 

In 100 years 99.99% of the current population will have squawked their last and run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible, and that would include those who are the targets for all the current theories. Maybe those who have less sand left in their hour-glasses should spend it more wisely.

[TroyChallenger]

Reading through the diatribe that is regularly written on here by several individuals, the theories are quite laughable

I'm sure but then some of the "official" Government announcements are equally laughable.

 

Google David Kelly.

[RainbowFire]

I'm sure but then some of the "official" Government announcements are equally laughable.

 

Google David Kelly.

 

Absolutely, but having a fairly staple diet of Python, Izzard, Radio 4x and Big Bang Theory, there is only so much laughter one can take. Oh and the TV at work is on BBCNews so there's always PMQ's to keep us going. ;)

 

Although to be fair, the government will have a reason for making it laughable........we're just unlikely to find out what that reason is.

[theezenutz]

Interesting. From the above link:

 

"Do you notice who gets assassinated? People who tell us to live together in harmony and try to love one another. Jesus, Ghandi, Lincoln, John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Medgar Evers..."

 

It's almost as though there is a force that doesn't want the world to live in peace.

If you find Carlin interesting you may like Bill Hicks especially this one, one of his last Performances. In a way it's a little sad because you can really sense the bitterness and frustration in his voice but he makes some interesting points he sort of let's loose with a barrage. He mentions Waco which ties back into your original reason for starting this thread. I hope you enjoy.

Bill Hicks- The Elite (Last Performance) - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDTaO3QCJ8A

[trundlenut]

If you find Carlin interesting you may like Bill Hicks especially this one, one of his last Performances. In a way it's a little sad because you can really sense the bitterness and frustration in his voice but he makes some interesting points he sort of let's loose with a barrage. He mentions Waco which ties back into your original reason for starting this thread. I hope you enjoy.

Bill Hicks- The Elite (Last Performance) - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDTaO3QCJ8A

Have you seen Last Week Tonight with John Oliver? Its on one of the sky channels but I think they are also on YouTube.

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[@Lee]

http://humansarefree.com/2014/07/busted-mh-17-was-in-fact-lost-flight-mh.html?m=0

[Bian]

http://humansarefree.com/2014/07/busted-mh-17-was-in-fact-lost-flight-mh.html?m=0

That site is laughable, iphone 5 in someones bum and saying its now exposed as mh370. This is a gem of a headline "The alleged MH17 was the same plane model as MH-370" consider me convinced as it's obvious an airline would never ever buy two of the same model of aircraft to do so would be sheer lunacy. 

[trundlenut]

I've got a sieve with less holes in it than that story.

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[gadgetman]

Pmsl

[sparks03]

Bit of a thread revival but this story is right up the conspiracy alley.

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-causes-of-the-mh17-crash-are-classified-ukraine-netherlands-australia-belgium-signed-a-non-disclosure-agreement/5397194

 

 IF true (and I have only stumbled on this quite by accident on some bizarre sites) this could be an interesting development.

Edited 9 September, 2014 by sparks03

[2SkodaFamily]

Also found from that link:

 

[Clunkclick]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Springmann

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmjAg_-Vi9Y

 

 

Nick

[TroyChallenger]

Also found from that link:

 

Yeah but picking holes in the official version of 9/11 is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[trundlenut]

Yeah but picking holes in the official version of 9/11 is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Do you mean its the kind of thing Yanks do purely because it involves guns?

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[theezenutz]

It seems 9/11 isn't the only event where the official story has been fabricated, full of deceit and outright lies.

Waco: The Rules of Engagement is a highly detailed examination of the interaction between David Koresh, his members, and Federal Law Enforcement. It shows how the FBI misled the public and American political leaders in order to focus overwhelming force on a group whose diversity of race, national origin, and apocalyptic religious beliefs made its members easy targets for lethal abuse of civil and human rights.

Gripping and deeply thought provoking, the film provides America with something it truly needs - an opportunity to review the historical record of events at Waco. The findings raise doubts about the FBI's version of the story and their larger role in similar instances of law enforcement.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/waco-the-rules-of-engagement/

[Clunkclick]

Conflict is big money. It is a commercial business, more now than its ever been,  both in the supply of equipment and the support of service people.

 

At its height, for every US soldier on the ground their were deployed 2-3 contractors in Afghanistan by virtue of contracted-out functions and manpower substitution. Same in the UK, although I think the ratio wasn't as great.

 

The 10 year  Afghan involvement cost the UK taxpayer £37 billion i.e. the equivalent to the annual budget of the whole of the MOD - makes the cost of the two aircraft carriers (@£6bn) look paltry.

 

Apparently the likes of Haliburton, Betchel etc made an exceptional amount of money and  their  lawyers, accountants and commercial speciallists didn't hold back in claiming absolutely everything they possibly could (Allegedly, the various executive officers would be on the phone balling 'em out weekly_if they fell short of monthly targets in this respect). A lot of the contracts are probably still being audited for price and quantitycorrection today, so that Governments can convince themselves they paid a reasonable amount for the goods and services. And there's been plenty of cases in the states where contractors have been found out outrageously overcharging or charging where no service or good was provided.

 

Nick

Edited 10 September, 2014 by Clunkclick

[trundlenut]

Conflict is big money. It is a commercial business, more now than its ever been, both in the supply of equipment and the support of service people.

At its height, for every US soldier on the ground their were deployed 2-3 contractors in Afghanistan by virtue of contracted-out functions and manpower substitution. Same in the UK, although I think the ratio wasn't as great.

The 10 year Afghan involvement cost the UK taxpayer £37 billion i.e. the equivalent to the annual budget of the whole of the MOD - makes the cost of the two aircraft carriers (@£6bn) look paltry.

Apparently the likes of Haliburton, Betchel etc made an exceptional amount of money and their lawyers, accountants and commercial speciallists didn't hold back in claiming absolutely everything they possibly could (Allegedly, the various executive officers would be on the phone balling 'em out weekly_if they fell short of monthly targets in this respect). A lot of the contracts are probably still being audited for price and quantitycorrection today, so that Governments can convince themselves they paid a reasonable amount for the goods and services. And there's been plenty of cases in the states where contractors have been found out outrageously overcharging or charging where no service or good was provided.

Nick

In that case it would make perfect sense that Putin is a CIA stooge. Recruited during the cold war when in the KGB.

He plays the mad dictator, threatening Eastern Europe and the US military industrial complex make money hand over fist, selling arms to everyone, the US military get to flex their muscles and the US public gets a new tangible pantomime villain and don't mind the extra military spending.

Some people in Eastern Europe die but who cares.

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[Clunkclick]

In that case it would make perfect sense that Putin is a CIA stooge. Recruited during the cold war when in the KGB.

He plays the mad dictator, threatening Eastern Europe and the US military industrial complex make money hand over fist, selling arms to everyone, the US military get to flex their muscles and the US public gets a new tangible pantomime villain and don't mind the extra military spending.

Some people in Eastern Europe die but who cares.

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There is an element within the  institutions of the military/industrial complex on both sides of the old iron curtain which seeks to justify their own existence by upping the threat perception or initiating extra-territorial minor conflicts. But up until the recent market reforms in Russia, the Russian industrial complex probably wasn't as financially incentivised to go to war as the American, by virtue of the two differing economic systems. Most of their incursions have been idealogical.or institutional power block based. As regards the recent action in Ukraine, I think what you are seeing is the establishment of a very big country, containing lots of diverse interests, many of whom would love to break away (topical), being fearful of the consequences for themselves and the rest of the population and drawing a line in the sand in an area traditionally regarded as being firmly within Russia's sphere of influence.

 

At least Putin has got the support of a fair part of the home population in his action, unlike the UKs recent middle eastern excursions.

 

I mean to say, how many times in the last 60 years have air wings been launched from Russian carriers (They do have some) to enforce their foreign policy goals ?

The occupation of the Balkan countries  post WW2 was done with the agreement of the West and Russia only moved into some of the  Middle-Eastern and African countries, post WW2, after the Western imperial powers withdrew from their colonies in the 1950s and 1960s, leaving them destitute - unlike the original colonisation, it wasn't a forceible occupation. The only country they did "Invade" in support of their protégé/puppet was Afghanistan and only after the CIA had been stirring things up out there.

 

And then there's Vietnam.

 

Nick

Edited 10 September, 2014 by Clunkclick

[theezenutz]

Conflict is big money. It is a commercial business, more now than its ever been, both in the supply of equipment and the support of service people.

At its height, for every US soldier on the ground their were deployed 2-3 contractors in Afghanistan by virtue of contracted-out functions and manpower substitution. Same in the UK, although I think the ratio wasn't as great.

The 10 year Afghan involvement cost the UK taxpayer £37 billion i.e. the equivalent to the annual budget of the whole of the MOD - makes the cost of the two aircraft carriers (@£6bn) look paltry.

Apparently the likes of Haliburton, Betchel etc made an exceptional amount of money and their lawyers, accountants and commercial speciallists didn't hold back in claiming absolutely everything they possibly could (Allegedly, the various executive officers would be on the phone balling 'em out weekly_if they fell short of monthly targets in this respect). A lot of the contracts are probably still being audited for price and quantitycorrection today, so that Governments can convince themselves they paid a reasonable amount for the goods and services. And there's been plenty of cases in the states where contractors have been found out outrageously overcharging or charging where no service or good was provided.

Nick

Sounds a bit like this article I remember coming across a while back.

MoD accused of wasting billions by hoarding supplies - http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/jun/28/mod-wasting-billions-hoarding-supplies

The NAO found the MoD was still keeping 54 years worth of spares for a Nimrod aircraft that was retired two years ago, as well as 24 million items for which the military had no demand between 2009 and 2010. The unused equipment, thought to be worth £4.2bn, included bayonet scabbards.

During the same period, the MoD spent £4bn on items such as clothing and ammunition, but did not use £1.5bn worth of this equipment.

Overall, the military is storing 710m items – from rifle ammunition and missiles to clothing and aircraft parts – at a cost of £277m a year. The NAO estimates that of the £19.5bn worth of inventory it reviewed, stock worth £6.6bn was either unused or over-ordered.

Don't forget Lockheed Martin which has a very shady and nefarious past being awarded the contract to collect and process the data from the recent census. Hmmm that's like trusting your child with Jimmy Saville.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/feb/19/census-boycott-lockheed-martin

Edited 10 September, 2014 by theezenutz

[Clunkclick]

I think I've quoted this one before:-

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Billion-Dollar-Misunderstanding-Collapse/dp/1557507775/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410384563&sr=8-1&keywords=the+5+billion+dollar+misunderstanding

 

 

Nick

[Clunkclick]

The difference between WW2 and today, as far as the Western Powers are concerned is that civilian contractors are embedded into operational model, especially the foreign expeditionary excursions, to a far greater extent than in WW2. Without contractors, most of the camps in the back-areas i.e. away from the front-line just wouldn't have got built, run and dismantled when no longer needed, supplies of fuel, water and other consumables wouldn't have got delivered, waste and sewage "Disposed".

 

The divisions of big companies established to do this, even in the absence of active wars, have to maintain a core of  skilled employees on staff or contract just to be in a position to honour the contracts they have entered into with national governments and to be able to set the wheels for scaling everything up , in the event that the national administration calls them up.

 

 

Nick