Apr stage one remap on my tsi vrs

[Tdernux]

Just to be clear, I have installed APR stage I, which is ECU modification (chiptuning), air intake is another piece to puzzle which is now under consideration process

[neiln]

is the remap there on the ecu al;ong side the stock map, and selectable?  (as i thik it was on previous octy apr maps)  if so, how is it selected?  I like the idea of vrs mode button actually doing someting useful and selecting a map!

[parsey83]

Folks car driving really well, average trip noticing a 2 to 3 mpg increase. Had the car on a 50 mile b road drive today and all I can say is its like being in a gear lower with the available torque. As most of you will know the roads have been very wet, yes the car will spin up in 2nd,3rd and even 4th gear on occasion but I provoked this to see available power. The car has less throttle lag, retains driveability and pulls like a train with an increased rev limit to 7100. You don't need to use this though as 5k seems to still be the sweet spot. I'm on 15k now and will keep the thread updated as I go. Next to order will be the Apr intake kit and possibly milltek full system.

[CBMotorsport]

is the remap there on the ecu al;ong side the stock map, and selectable?  (as i thik it was on previous octy apr maps)  if so, how is it selected?  I like the idea of vrs mode button actually doing someting useful and selecting a map!

 

I would be seriously interested in some sort of switchable system. I like the idea of being able to switch it back to standard for dealer visits etc. :-)

[Orville]

is the remap there on the ecu al;ong side the stock map, and selectable?  (as i thik it was on previous octy apr maps)  if so, how is it selected?  I like the idea of vrs mode button actually doing someting useful and selecting a map!

The new map simply overwrites (updates) the existing ECU coding via the diagnostics port. You will not be able to switch backwards and forwards without the correct programming equipment.

 

Superchips Blufin allows users to flash stock & performance maps backwards and forwards, but it is not yet available for VRS 3/GTI 7 engines. For APR and Revo maps you will have to take the car back to the tuners for stock maps to be rewritten. This will likely cost £60 to £100 each time.

[Sheldon.Cooper]

Parsey, where are the Dyno graphs?

 

I've had 5 cars remapped in the past so am not unaware of the joys of chipping but a 66HP and 142 LB/FT gain is ridiculous.  And I don't mean that in a good way, I mean that in a 'what a complete lie' kind of way unless APR have managed to extract more from that engine by an enormous amount compared to every other tuner out there. 

 

Perhaps it was a typo and you now have 400 nm torque?

 

Or perhaps your engine is in a million pieces as it has blown itself apart.

Edited 6 August, 2014 by Sheldon.Cooper

[Orville]

Folks car driving really well, average trip noticing a 2 to 3 mpg increase. Had the car on a 50 mile b road drive today and all I can say is its like being in a gear lower with the available torque. As most of you will know the roads have been very wet, yes the car will spin up in 2nd,3rd and even 4th gear on occasion but I provoked this to see available power. The car has less throttle lag, retains driveability and pulls like a train with an increased rev limit to 7100. You don't need to use this though as 5k seems to still be the sweet spot. I'm on 15k now and will keep the thread updated as I go. Next to order will be the Apr intake kit and possibly milltek full system.

Any videos showing acceleration and sound will be very much appreciated.

[Orville]

Parsey, where are the Dyno graphs?

 

I've had 5 cars remapped in the past so am not unaware of the joys of chipping but a 66HP and 142 LB/FT gain is ridiculous.  And I don't mean that in a good way, I mean that in a 'what a complete lie' kind of way unless APR have managed to extract more from that engine by an enormous amount compared to every other tuner out there. 

 

Perhaps it was a typo and you now have 400 nm torque?

 

Or perhaps your engine is in a million pieces as it has blown itself apart.

APR's own graphs show 305bhp and 371lb/ft torque for their stage 1 95 RON remap. Parsey's torque is ~8% higher, but may be attributable to mechanical variance or over-optimistic Dnyo calibration.

 

400lb/ft does seem on the high side, but it is possible.

 

APR Linky

Edited 6 August, 2014 by Orville

[loadswine]

As far as I can see, various dynos of APR mapped versions of cars with this engine are appearing out there and all showing similar gains, so not a one off, It appears.

APR have a solid reputation, so I really doubt they are misleading anyone, or about to cause running issues, from reading about their testing . even tuning boxes can liberate 50 or so horses on a stage 1.

[pipsyp]

God this sounds so good.

95 RON map would suit me down to the ground too as I can only buy regular unleaded on my fuel card.

....oh the thought of carting about in a 300-odd horse vRS estate with work funding the fuel...happy days!

7.1k increased rev limit is nice too. One question I do have...can the standard manual clutch cope OK with 400lb/ft torque? Can imagine its useful life would be diminished somewhat having to deal with another 140-odd lb/ft!

[loadswine]

You could opt for one of their reduced torque maps. Not sure how much the torque is reduced by, but they do offer them, so a possible plan then?

[Orville]

The reduced torque maps are used mostly to protect the much more expensive to replace DSG gearboxes. They have smaller weaker clutches and build up more heat. The manual gearbox and clutch setup should be fine, although lifespan may be somewhat reduced. The main benefits of manual gearboxes are lower complexity, separate clutch / gearbox assembly (failure of one does not require replacement of both), easier and cheaper to replace (or repair), generally stronger and more reliability. DSG boxes are lovely pieces of kit, but they are essentially sealed units and throw away items once they go wrong.

[harrysprout]

Maybe the stock power output is much more than the quoted 217 bhp. That might go somewhere to explain these huge increases.

[Durabolin]

I think stock output is seriously understated. I am hearing 240 bhp. VW love to play games with product positioning and specs as do most manufacturers. Cant have the VRS trampling on the GTI's toes. Of course the GTI is also understated

Edited 7 August, 2014 by Durabolin

[pipsyp]

60-odd hp gain is pretty immense. Its difficult to determine a cars original "real" HP as most dynos either over-read or under-read.

I'm not going to suggest that the car wasnt throwing out 240+ hp out of the box but for arguments sake its probably more accurate quoting the car as having 280+hp now based on manufacturers figures...after all the actual power gain can be proved as being real. What is obvious is that the 220hp 2.0 is pretty wound down.

I guess proof of the pudding would be to stick it on a number of different rollers and then calculate the average power and torque figures?

Edited 7 August, 2014 by pipsyp

[Awesomemark]

The car is a flash and not ECU out, so in reality it should only take no longer than half hour to flash, some dealers if you had the car flashed with them wouldn't

charge for the flash

[Tdernux]

Guys, 400Nm torque is not that much, if you consider, that diesel with DSG gearbox have 380 Nm...

[loadswine]

That's not 400 Nm, its ftlbs, which is around 500 Nm I think.

[Orville]

Guys, 400Nm torque is not that much, if you consider, that diesel with DSG gearbox have 380 Nm...

The APR remaps are benching 370 to 400lb/ft torque which equals 500 to 540Nm.

 

The twin clutches, syncro and gearing's within the DSG box will have to handle 30% more power than within the VRS TDI engine. This is probably fine for normal spirited use but will reduce the boxes lifespan.

[KiDr]

revo is finally out:

http://blog.revotechnik.com/revo-2-0tsi-generation-3-ecu-upgrade-for-the-mqb-platform/

[loadswine]

One thing I have wondered about with the proper remaps, is whether the throttle pedal response feels any better than stock. It has always felt a bit laggy to me. Of course, this may be an advantage with all that extra grunt.

[themanwithnoaim]

loadswine, a Pedalbox reduces the need to crush you carpet.

 

Revo seem to be down on torque compared with APR, not sure if thats a good or bad thing...

[loadswine]

Yes, I know the pedalbox is a fix for that, but I just wondered whether the remap gave a better solution in that department. I have found that with remaps before, the pedal feels better in relation to throttle response, this could be moreso with fly by wire throttles.

I don't know if its just the scaling used, but the Revo graph looks nice and smooth.

[Orville]

Yes, Revo torque curve is very vs APR's curve which has the extra muscle between 2500-4000rpm (where it will be most felt and where the higher boost is probably safest). At high revs there will be little difference between them but within the mid-range APR should feel stronger. APR may be fastest and Revo may be the safer long-term option in terms of wear & tear, but stock is of course safest (and fast enough for most needs).

Edited 8 August, 2014 by Orville

[Saints92]

On 06/08/2014 at 21:59, harrysprout said:

Maybe the stock power output is much more than the quoted 217 bhp. That might go somewhere to explain these huge increases.

 

I've just had mines mapped, and stock with 99 momentum came in at 217hp at the wheels, so came in around 250hp at the crank. 

 

That's a standard 220. Apparently VWs often use the wheel HP so folk are susprised at how quick they are.