head skimmed now biiigg problems :(

[Chris.c]

ok so last week i had the head skimmed as i blew a my head gasket, new pd150 head bolts put in whilst i was there.

 

the car before was mapped to 183bhp.

 

i gets the car back driving home and the car physically cant do more than 36mpg is this a known thing to happen, the car is sluggish no power whatsoever i know this is because of the compression and all that but really that bad?

 

now the major problem i really need help with......the car started fine when i left the garage drove home fine other than the above, on my way back to work i filled up came out went to start the car and it seemed hesitant.....then started but as soon as the revs settled back down to 900rpm it stalled itself :( 

 

finaly got it started with a few extra revs to keep it going drove 200 miles back to work was fine got back allowed it to cool down turned it off. went out to it in the morning went to start it and the problem was alot worse now it starts and cuts out almost instantly.

 

when it was in  the garage the mechanic said the glow plug wiring harness was deteriorated could this be the main problem?

 

thank you guys in advance chris

[moley]

The glow plugs only pre heat the cylinders to assist in starting. Is the engine still sluggish and down on power? if so I would check the valve and pump timing.

[Chris.c]

The glow plugs only pre heat the cylinders to assist in starting. Is the engine still sluggish and down on power? if so I would check the valve and pump timing.

yea the engine is massively down on power would the timing really be out just after a head skim? valve?

[SEVrs]

The most obvious thing to jump out for me is that skimming the head could possibly raise the compression ratio and this could have implications on turbo operation.  It would have to be significant enough though to put it out of compression tolerance for the turbo, so I'm guessing that the skim was just a few thou? (in which case even the standard head gasket should be ok).

 

Other than that, if it was going fine before and isn't now, it points perhaps towards an error in the reassembly...have you checked all electrical connections etc?  I'd take it back to whoever did the work and ask them to fault find, after all, you'd reasonably expect a competent garage to warrant their work.  It may be nothing to do with them and just a sods law thing where something else has failed but that's where I'd be starting.  No power points towards a turbo failure or leaking turbo vacuum pipework.

[moley]

The engine is overhead cam so the cambelt has been removed to remove the head. I assume a new belt was fitted after the head was replaced. Also worth doing a compression check.

[Chris.c]

The engine is overhead cam so the cambelt has been removed to remove the head. I assume a new belt was fitted after the head was replaced. Also worth doing a compression check.

yea the cambelt was replaced. yea thats a good idea actually...more moneys lol.

[Chris.c]

The most obvious thing to jump out for me is that skimming the head could possibly raise the compression ratio and this could have implications on turbo operation.  It would have to be significant enough though to put it out of compression tolerance for the turbo, so I'm guessing that the skim was just a few thou? (in which case even the standard head gasket should be ok).

 

Other than that, if it was going fine before and isn't now, it points perhaps towards an error in the reassembly...have you checked all electrical connections etc?  I'd take it back to whoever did the work and ask them to fault find, after all, you'd reasonably expect a competent garage to warrant their work.  It may be nothing to do with them and just a sods law thing where something else has failed but that's where I'd be starting.  No power points towards a turbo failure or leaking turbo vacuum pipework.

yea it was skimmed 7 thou he said with the largest three hole gasket put back in. but straight after leaving bthe garge it was fine for the whole weekend?

[mannyo]

Have a look at this thread

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=228579

 

it explains how to check the timing of the cam/crank using VCDS.

 

Your timing could be out by a tiny amount.

[Chris.c]

Have a look at this thread

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=228579

 

it explains how to check the timing of the cam/crank using VCDS.

 

Your timing could be out by a tiny amount.

thank you very much looks like it will have to go somewhere with the correct computers seen as i have nothing lol

[Chris.c]

thank you very much looks like it will have to go somewhere with the correct computers seen as i have nothing lol

 

Have a look at this thread

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=228579

 

it explains how to check the timing of the cam/crank using VCDS.

 

Your timing could be out by a tiny amount.

but would it run correctly for arouynd 300 miles then be out surly these are instant things if the timing is out

[hutchysrs50]

A few things.

- Timing could be out after removing the timing belt.

- These heads don't like being skimmed, the OD engine is setup very precise and doesn't like being changed. 7 thou is quite a lot IMO and even using a bigger gasket might not be enough. I may be wrong though.

- the wiring harness for the glow plug won't affect normal driving at operating temp, only affect starting. Once it's started tho that would be it, it won't make it cut out straight after.

[Chris.c]

A few things.

- Timing could be out after removing the timing belt.

- These heads don't like being skimmed, the OD engine is setup very precise and doesn't like being changed. 7 thou is quite a lot IMO and even using a bigger gasket might not be enough. I may be wrong though.

- the wiring harness for the glow plug won't affect normal driving at operating temp, only affect starting. Once it's started tho that would be it, it won't make it cut out straight after.

it seems to be pointing towards timing so have i caused anymore damage driving it? if 7 though is alot what could now be done to either help it? or fix it.

[hutchysrs50]

Not a fan of doing it personally and never will, but two head gaskets would make up a bigger gap. This would be a bodge at best. Other than that nothing can be done other than replacing the cylinder head.

As for doing more damage it's possible but not your fault. The tensioner may have been loose or somthing hence why it's getting worse.

[Chris.c]

Not a fan of doing it personally and never will, but two head gaskets would make up a bigger gap. This would be a bodge at best. Other than that nothing can be done other than replacing the cylinder head.

yea fair enough live and learn lol. 

[Chris.c]

so if the worst comes to the worst and i have to undo all what has just been done where is the best place to get a cylinder head and can you get better ones?

[sepulchrave]

It's almost certainly the timing, it must be absolutely spot on with a PD engine. Get the timing checked at an independent specialist.

[rwbaldwin]

If the problem is variable, I wouldn't try starting it until the timing belt tensioner has been checked.

[SKYHAWK]

TIMING!

[Chris.c]

TIMING!

ok timing will be getting checked so the car did 300 but seemed fine the whole time how all of a sudden has this happened and if so has there been any internal damage or could there have been?

[hutchysrs50]

It's impossible to know about internal damage without looking at it, it still might not even be the timing.

As said the tensioner could have failed or not been tightend up correctly and worked loose. Camshaft bolts might have been left slack or also worked loose, new ones should be used but I bet the weren't.

[SKYHAWK]

ok timing will be getting checked so the car did 300 but seemed fine the whole time how all of a sudden has this happened and if so has there been any internal damage or could there have been?

its possible for it to have jumped a tooth or 2 as for internal damage a tooth or 2 wouldn't cause internal damage just be bad on fuel down on power and run like a pig

[Chris.c]

its possible for it to have jumped a tooth or 2 as for internal damage a tooth or 2 wouldn't cause internal damage just be bad on fuel down on power and run like a pig

and those are the exact problems im getting. its going in tuesday to get put on the diagnostics machine see where its at 

[rwbaldwin]

I repeat my warning of post #17. Don't drive it until the tensioner has been checked. A faulty (or incorrectly set) tensioner would explain why the belt has jumped. You seem to have been lucky so far. If it jumps again the engine will be toast. I see at least one owner a year 'push their luck' with a timing problem and end up destroying their engine.

[mogwye]

Totally agree on the above post.

 

Check the tensioner tab where it should locate into the engine block to ensure it is not bent thus allowing the tensioner to rotate clockwise and slackening off the belt.

 

I had a belt change once and found the above problem, luckily for me the belt had not slipped, I think I resolved it by supporting the sump underneath, removing the top engine mount, (stuffed a rag between the belt to stop anything falling down) slacken off the tensioner nut, and using a pair of long handled angled adjustable grips I managed to twist it back into shape and inserted it back into the block and part retighten the nut, reset the tension and tightened the nut.

 

DB

Edited 20 August, 2014 by mogwye

[Chris.c]

the car will and has not been run since monday morning......and will be getting towed to the garage with a note do not start until checked.