Fabia mk 11 misfire help

[Pappafox]

I suppose this is when under load i.e 3250 rpm+

 

So why/what may have has the spray pattern become compromised?

 

Are they easy to fit then?

If I bite the bullit, I  am in my rights to ask for the ones they take out? I'd try and get them rebuilt!!!

 

If I replace 2 what chance that the other will need replacing!!!

 

 

Anyone know where there's a set of old ones. I believe I need 03E90631C

 

I was told by a Skoda dealer in South Yorks that there are two types of injector on the BME and i gave him the chassis number and he quoted the above part. The C at the end is very important.  l couldn't see a part number on mine when i took the cover off to see the injector rail. The holder for each injector had a red plastic sort of holder around it. Should have taken a picture. (Have seen others on websites which are green holders?

[xman]

Sheesh....not going to comment further except pappafox's wife must get frustrated with her husbands overzealous nature...

New injector http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fuel-injector-03E906031C-/261641453195?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3ceb0bbe8b

Plenty of other options on ebay I expect

Why not just lift off the injector rail and inspect the injectors? It may be obvious why they arent squirting right and some manual cleaning using the right stuff might fix it. Might even be debris, old paper towels stuck in the inlet manifold.....

Either dive in and look, or pay the piper....I doubt Skoda dealer will guarantee a result, did you ask? Thought not....so what if another £500 later its still not running right?

Edited 27 October, 2014 by xman

[Pappafox]

Thinking about 2 injectors!!

 

Cylinder 2 was sooty indicating a problem with injection OK?

 

So could the fact that the ECU said there was a problem here then cause Cyl 3 to mis behave. The spark  plug was normal in cylinder 3 i.e no soot on it and it was like no 1 spark plug. We replaced all 3.

 

 

If the injector is replaced does the ECU need re programming. What I'm trying to say is if I fit them myself would there be a problem?

It looks like two torq  screws to take the injector rail out. Then a clip for the injector!!

[Pappafox]

Xman,

 

 

You doubt me. I have asked...I'm not as naive as you think my friend. They say they will guarantee their work. I really don't trust them. 

I can but them off ebay then and fit them. Do they need to be coded at all? 

[xman]

I suppose there is another possibilty, leaking fuel pump or blocked fuel filter......(low pressure/flow).

[Pappafox]

Xman,

 

Surely the scan would show this?  

 

Is it a case of taking an injector out and putting a new one in? If so i will buy the damn things on ebay. I see where the screws are holding the rail in.

[xman]

Xman,

 

Surely the scan would show this?  

 

Is it a case of taking an injector out and putting a new one in? If so i will buy the damn things on ebay. I see where the screws are holding the rail in.

 

I dont think a scan would show fuel pressure/delivery problems, its a simple system and I dont think theres any sensor there. There is a shrader valve at the end of the injector rail, which I guess is for bleeding air and checking fuel pressure.

 

Anyway, I remembered there is a full workshop manual available free online, so perhaps some study here would be worthwhile. It looks as if changing the injectors is a doddle, I would think the ECU would self calibrate using the lambda probes, and crankshaft sensors etc.

 

looky here....

 

http://workshop-manuals.com/skoda/fabia-mk1/engine/1.2/40;_1.2/47_engine_fuel_injection/mixture_preparation_system_electronic_inj.gas/fuel_injection_system/disassembling_and_assembling_fuel_distributor_with_injectors/

 

 

There is also a section on the fuel delivery system, if there has been contamination of the fuel, e.g. dirty petrol, deliberate contamination etc the fuel pump has a pickup strainer that can become clogged, the fuel filter can also become blocked. I say this because many many many moons ago  I had a Honda motorbike that just would not run above a certain midrange speed/power without severe juddering power loss etc. Honda couldnt fix it (after charging me the earth), I eventually sold it to my brother who found the problem straightaway, a bit of cloth in the fuel tank that kept blocking the fuel pickup....

Edited 27 October, 2014 by xman

[Pappafox]

A doodle then?  So we are not sure the ECU  self calibrates? Also looks like i need new o rings correct? Also a torque wrench for the screws when i put the rail back ? 

[xman]

Well I read the section about checking the injector flow rate,

http://workshop-manuals.com/skoda/fabia-mk1/engine/1.2/40;_1.2/47_engine_fuel_injection/mixture_preparation_system_electronic_inj.gas/testing_components/inspecting_the_injection_rate_tightness_and_jet_formation_of_the_injectors/

its in a fairly tight range, and no mention of recalibrating if changing a faulty injector.

 

O rings only if old ones damaged, also check when disassembling the o rings were seated correctly, a common source of problems...

 

No torque wrench necessary, 8nm is lightly nipped up. All workshop manuals have torque values everywhere, but these are just self tapping screws or bolts that hold the rail in place.

 

Off to bed for now!

Edited 27 October, 2014 by xman

[Pappafox]

Thanks xman.  

 

 

I still wonder if replacing the injectors will sort the problem. 

 

Im not  very confident to change them.

[freelanderman]

I read xman post regarding testing of injectors with great interestvery good infomation, but word of caution unless you are a very confident and skilled person great care needs to be exercised in that a bad electrical connection could easily start a fire.

[Richf]

If you can buy a set of used injectors on a rail it's very easy to swap them over , have a search on YouTube most cars are along the same lines

It's a case of a couple of fuel lines and simple plugs , the risk of getting it wrong is quite low but start it up and check for leaks afterwards

I'd agree with getting the fuel filter changed as well but doubt that fuel flow is causing this fault , the plugs wouldn't be sooty

As for cause , I would imagine short trips and lack of use could effect the injectors over time as could contaminated fuel

[Pappafox]

thanks chaps

 

But what about putting injectors into the rail?  

 

I can but the injector for £35 each on each buy. so I plan to buy 2 new injectors  and then fit them into the existing rail. Obviously need to take to off.

 

Thoughts?

[mrburdon123]

Why don't you swap the existing injectors around then re-do the scan to see if the error follows the change in position of injector - process of elimination.

 

You need to eliminate possible causes not replace things - you may fit different injectors thinking there working when they may not be but your none the wiser and go off looking for something else. 

 

You need someone to do a full diagnostics, even get someone to do some fuel logs and post the full report up on here. Dont rely on what your skoda dealership is telling you as you dont seem to be particularly clued up of VAG codes or diagnostics so the wool can be pulled over your eyes easily - not your fault but the money makers at skoda.

 

I am cringing reading over some of the post here. 

 

START SIMPLE AND WORK UP not the other way round. if you have a flat tyre would you go and replace all your wheels and tyres or check for a puncture first...............................

[xman]

thanks chaps

But what about putting injectors into the rail?

I can but the injector for £35 each on each buy. so I plan to buy 2 new injectors and then fit them into the existing rail. Obviously need to take to off.

Thoughts?

Looks easy peasy, two screws out, tug or lever the rail gently back, to overcome the o ring resistance, a bit like lifting a coil pack. Remove the electrical connector, then slide the 3 sided clip off the relevant injector, then simply pull the injector out.

Before starting on this though, get a soft brush/paint brush, along with your vacuum cleaner and throughly/dust/clean the area. Cleanliness is all important!

If you were electrically minded, you could check the injector for resistance, the value is given in the service doc., also I would spray clean the injector out with carburettor cleaner (Toolstation) and exercise ot with 12 volts. As I also have VCDS which cost me £4.99 a few years ago, I'd swap the known good injector in no.1 with no.2, reassemble, bleed the rail, restart and rescan to see if the fault is cleared or moved as suggested earlier. But thats just me.

As there are alledgedly two faulty injectors, I would also consider taking the rail off completely, stripping it down and cleaning out the rail. Keep track of which injector is which!

Edited 28 October, 2014 by xman

[Pappafox]

Hi Mr Burden and everyone else,

 

I have here the official report from the dealer run  on a system entitled Diagnostic Protocol version 1.4_dev as of 2013-06-19

there is a website address quoted  https://portal.cpn.vwg/jetpro/elsa/WebUIProjects/Protokol viewer....

 

 

I picked it up (the re[port) this morning. What is  a little odd  is that they called me yesterday to say 2 injectors were needed  and they had done the test.

 

This report is  9 A4 pages in total dated today with the  session from 09.57 to 10.02am 

 

Anyway highlights I can see,

 

Address 01 : System name: Simos Engine Management System it states Events 2

 

Fault memory - P0303Cyl.3 misfire Detected

Error type 1: Open circuit /short circuit to ground

Error type 2: Intermittent

 

Fault memory - P0302Cyl.2 misfire Detected

Error type 1: Open circuit /short circuit to ground

Error type 2: Intermittent

 

 

Then address 03 System name: ABS Bosch 8.0 - Events 3

 

Fault memory entry

 

VAG01314 Engine control module

Error type 1: Please read DTC

Error type 2: Intermittent

 

P1857 Load signal Error Message from Eng Cont

Error type 1: tbd

Error type 2: Intermittent

 

VAG00532 supply voltage

Error type 1: tbd

Error type 2: Intermittent

 

 

Interesting on a section named test plans It says error on the injectors aforementioned but also 

 

Control unit address  ERROR VAG01314 Engine control module (ECM)

 

 

These are highlights and I could photograph and email if needed to people ?

 

 

Xman,

 

Changing the injectors sounds easy...for you bleed the rail????. Where are you located? If I take it off maybe I could bring it across and you could teach me how it's done..ha,ha!!

 

 

Special thanks to freelander who's been giving me support via pm.

 

Keep owing back to boys ..and girls with help!! 

[Richf]

You won't need to bleed the rail/injectors so don't worry about that

[Pappafox]

That's a relief Richf

[Pappafox]

Gendean cable is here!!!

[Pappafox]

will set up in the morning !

[Pappafox]

Ok so.......

 

New injectors fitted and the car seems to be running just fine!!!!   

 

I have the Gendan VAG cable in my hand but can't seem to get it to be found by my laptop.. Trying to resolve and will let you know if ?I need some help!

[Pappafox]

Didn't get the dealer to fit them I sourced them on fleabay and local mechanic fitted them. Wow talk about garages charging for their labours!!!!

[thinkpad]

Ok so.......

 

New injectors fitted and the car seems to be running just fine!!!!   

 

I have the Gendan VAG cable in my hand but can't seem to get it to be found by my laptop.. Trying to resolve and will let you know if ?I need some help!

 

Perhaps it will only detect the cable once you plug it into the car. The cable's circuit is powered by the car's battery.

[thinkpad]

Didn't get the dealer to fit them I sourced them on fleabay and local mechanic fitted them. Wow talk about garages charging for their labours!!!!

 

How much did you pay for the injectors and the labour?

[Pappafox]

see post 213.. Looks like I owe my neighbour as few lemonades in the pub!!!