Yesterday must have been 'Force Yorkshire Briskoda Members Off The Road On The A64 Seamer Bypass Day' as I too had a minor incident on the same stretch.  It wasn't the puke coloured Corsa but it was a Vauxhall. 

 

I was positioned in the middle of my lane heading out of Scarborough doing an indicated 60mph.  Heading towards the town was a pre facelift Vectra with a lovely set of aftermarket 18" wheels and badly fitted DRLs.  He was fourth in line behind others following a white van making him the fifth vehicle in the convoy.  Perhaps he had delusions of the prowess of his car's ability to take four vehicles in one fell swoop or maybe he didn't care about those in the car with him or the other road users but decided to have a go anyway. 

 

He started his manoeuvre a good way off, I saw him lining up to take the row of cars and I fully expected him to have completed the overtake well before our cars would meet.  Maybe he should have spent more on buying a faster car instead of spending it all on styling mods because it took way longer than it should have done.  However, I moved slightly to the left to allow him through as some people on here have suggested - never occurred to me before .  This coincided with the t**t in the Audi A4 1.6 petrol with the S Line styling kit behind seeing his chance to blow my chavvy VXR into the weeds as I'd annoyed him by doing 30mph in a 30mph zone, 40 in a 40 and 60 in a 60 etc on my way out of town.  A bit like Jason Plato he saw half a gap and went for the overtake.

 

So here we have two underpowered cars overtaking people, closing in on each other for a head on smash on their way to work.  In my opinion (and I'm sure others will disagree as they often do on here) the Vauxhall driver was a bit over ambitious in his attempt to do what he wanted.  At the same time, the frustrated Audi driver in trying to prove a point was also at fault for being so focused on the rear end of my car that he totally missed the oncoming Vauxhall. 

 

Now obviously it didn't end in a fiery death (on my part at least) but it does back up Martin's original post about people being arses and forcing others out of their way.  I'll not say how I avoided the accident as that's irrelevant but I thought it was worth a mention.

  I'll not say how I avoided the accident as that's irrelevant but I thought it was worth a mention.

I'm guessing you booted the VXR and left the tool in his underpowered Audi for dust so he had to pull back in behind you, hence avoiding the smash....?! Lol

I'm guessing you booted the VXR and left the tool in his underpowered Audi for dust so he had to pull back in behind you, hence avoiding the smash....?! Lol

I did that to a scirroco driver once. I saw he was about to overtake in a dangerous place. Could see a a potential accident with me in the middle of it,.. So i opened the bike up, left him on the wrong side of the road and got out of the way.

It wasnt until we got to a set of traffic lights that i realised how mad he was.

He got out of his car and offered me to a side road so he could 'knock my head off'

At which point i thought to myself, i dont care if this lights still on red or not, if he comes any closer im gonna do a racing start haha.

Is this the fault of the road or the drivers though?

 

Any road is only as safe as the drivers driving it.

 

I still believe a wider road allows for increased visibility and safer overtaking.

 

I'm sure these examples of bad overtaking can be offset with an equal amount of perfectly safe 'three abreast' overtaking.

Is this the fault of the road or the drivers though?

Any road is only as safe as the drivers driving it.

I still believe a wider road allows for increased visibility and safer overtaking.

I'm sure these examples of bad overtaking can be offset with an equal amount of perfectly safe 'three abreast' overtaking.

I guess it can be seen to encourage drivers to do silly things.

But yeah, perfectly safe if used in the right way

 

 

 

Believe it or not, speed limits are set the way they are for a reason, 

 

Yes, they are, but it's rare for that reason to be about how safe the road is. By far the most common reason is to define the edge of a town or parish, which is where you find loads of 40 and 30 mph signs on country roads - and if the bureaucracy hasn't quite caught up with the reality of an expanding town this can be after the houses have started.  The next most common reason is that the locals managed to complain long enough to the council that the council gave in and gave them a reduced limit. If it's not the 30mph they were looking for they well well continue to request one until the council does give in.  Councils do look at accident stats on a road as a reason to reduce the speed limit but they don't look at just speed-related accidents. Any accidents, regardless of speed or of whether speed was a factor, will be used with a reduced speed limit being the outcome.

There are, of course, lots of other places where the speed limits are there for a genuine accident black spot area but it's impossible to tell if that is the case now which defeats the point a bit. 

Derbyshires speed limits are a complete mess tbh.

Nearly all a- roads are 50's, yet you can go down a tiny narrow bendy country lane and its NSL.

Yesterday must have been 'Force Yorkshire Briskoda Members Off The Road On The A64 Seamer Bypass Day' as I too had a minor incident on the same stretch.  It wasn't the puke coloured Corsa but it was a Vauxhall. 

 

I was positioned in the middle of my lane heading out of Scarborough doing an indicated 60mph.  Heading towards the town was a pre facelift Vectra with a lovely set of aftermarket 18" wheels and badly fitted DRLs.  He was fourth in line behind others following a white van making him the fifth vehicle in the convoy.  Perhaps he had delusions of the prowess of his car's ability to take four vehicles in one fell swoop or maybe he didn't care about those in the car with him or the other road users but decided to have a go anyway. 

 

He started his manoeuvre a good way off, I saw him lining up to take the row of cars and I fully expected him to have completed the overtake well before our cars would meet.  Maybe he should have spent more on buying a faster car instead of spending it all on styling mods because it took way longer than it should have done.  However, I moved slightly to the left to allow him through as some people on here have suggested - never occurred to me before .  This coincided with the t**t in the Audi A4 1.6 petrol with the S Line styling kit behind seeing his chance to blow my chavvy VXR into the weeds as I'd annoyed him by doing 30mph in a 30mph zone, 40 in a 40 and 60 in a 60 etc on my way out of town.  A bit like Jason Plato he saw half a gap and went for the overtake.

 

So here we have two underpowered cars overtaking people, closing in on each other for a head on smash on their way to work.  In my opinion (and I'm sure others will disagree as they often do on here) the Vauxhall driver was a bit over ambitious in his attempt to do what he wanted.  At the same time, the frustrated Audi driver in trying to prove a point was also at fault for being so focused on the rear end of my car that he totally missed the oncoming Vauxhall. 

 

Now obviously it didn't end in a fiery death (on my part at least) but it does back up Martin's original post about people being arses and forcing others out of their way.  I'll not say how I avoided the accident as that's irrelevant but I thought it was worth a mention.

I do see this differently, as being the Audi driver's responsibility, because he required someone else to alter their speed rather than just their position in their lane. 

It's just too tempting a bit of road that, after you've crawled out of town all the way to the McDonalds roundabout, no end of idiots try to pass on the next stretch

As I read it this thread is suggesting that anyone overtaking on this stretch of road is either an idiot or is attempting an unsafe overtake.

 

The previous examples go into detail about the colour, brand and performance expectations of the 'chavs' chosen vehicle.

 

These types of drivers don't need a wide road to show to others how incapable behind the wheel they are.

 

Let's reduce the width of all roads, put double white lines down the middle and force all road users to follow in convoy at a set distance apart, in other words minimise any risk.

 

Or how about instead we make the roads wider, straighter and smoother to enable increased visibility and we all learn to treat other road users with respect.

 

I have safely overtaken on that stretch of road and have been safely overtaken several times too. Throw a 'chav' into any situation and it can be twisted to suit any argument.

Edited 23 October, 201411 yr by silver1011

I have overtaken, and been overtaken, safely on that road too.

 

All I ask is that the overtaking person uses the same criteria that they would on any road; that the opposing lane in clear for the overtake. Not "**** it, I can squeeze in there if everyone budges over a bit"

I have overtaken, and been overtaken, safely on that road too.

 

All I ask is that the overtaking person uses the same criteria that they would on any road; that the opposing lane in clear for the overtake. Not "**** it, I can squeeze in there if everyone budges over a bit"

 

+1

I have overtaken, and been overtaken, safely on that road too.

 

All I ask is that the overtaking person uses the same criteria that they would on any road; that the opposing lane in clear for the overtake. Not "**** it, I can squeeze in there if everyone budges over a bit"

Ok, I don't know this particular stretch, but I've overtaken, and been overtaken, safely on other similar roads in the face of oncoming traffic. The fact that silver1011 seems to feel similarly dies make me wonder whether the issue is as much you as them. 

Ok, I don't know this particular stretch, but I've overtaken, and been overtaken, safely on other similar roads in the face of oncoming traffic. The fact that silver1011 seems to feel similarly dies make me wonder whether the issue is as much you as them. 

I think the key to this is that you think that this can be done safely, and I don't. I think we will have to agree to disagree Ken. 

 

For me, a safe overtake means that there's nothing coming.

As I read it this thread is suggesting that anyone overtaking on this stretch of road is either an idiot or is attempting an unsafe overtake.

 

Not at all.  I overtook someone this morning.  The difference is that the opposite side was free from traffic when I did so.

 

The previous examples go into detail about the colour, brand and performance expectations of the 'chavs' chosen vehicle.

 

This was a poor attempt of setting the scene on my part - I apologise.  The chav's vehicle referred to is actually my own.

 

These types of drivers don't need a wide road to show to others how incapable behind the wheel they are.

 

True, a dangerous driver needs no excuse to demonstrate their abilities.  The uncanny things is that on this particular stretch, which I have driven over 4000 times on my daily commute (very rough maths), does seem to encourage the blighters.

 

Let's reduce the width of all roads, put double white lines down the middle and force all road users to follow in convoy at a set distance apart, in other words minimise any risk.

 

As scary as it seems there are people who might consider this a good idea.  I'm with you on this one though and hope it never happens.

 

Or how about instead we make the roads wider, straighter and smoother to enable increased visibility and we all learn to treat other road users with respect.

 

Nah, I lived in America for a bit and having driven across Nevada a few times I can honestly say it's dull.  I'd go with the respect thing though.

 

I have safely overtaken on that stretch of road and have been safely overtaken several times too. Throw a 'chav' into any situation and it can be twisted to suit any argument.

 

It's good to know that you have survived the perils of this road as an overtakee and an overtaker.  I consider my self to be the chav in all of this as I'm the one in a crappy Vauxhall.  The chap in the Audi however, was very smartly dressed by the look of things, although I couldn't see his lower half.  His shirt and tie were very nice though.

 

To be honest, it's just like many roads in the UK, there will be incidents at some point in most places I guess.  The difference is that Martin and myself drive it every day and statistically there will inevitably be some daft examples of road craft out of the hundreds of times we use it in any given year. 

 

I'm willing to bet that there are other places that some people on here drive regularly that they would say encourage similar driving due to the fact that they see a few examples throughout the year. 

 

Having said that though, I've driven on the M25 a few times and can honestly say that it was a pleasure.  There were no traffic jams, I didn't see a single crash and people were very polite and courteous.  From this limited experience I am now stating that the M25 is a wonderful motorway and that anyone who suggests it isn't is wrong and that they should question their own skills and judgement for any bad experiences they might have had whilst driving on it.....

 

For me, a safe overtake means that there's nothing coming.

I agree with this to an extent but I'm not sure it's so black and white.

I think you need to take into account visibility, weather, road surface, distance to oncoming traffic and it's closing speed, the performance of your own vehicle, other traffic (and the prescence or abscence of chavs lol) to judge it. Each situation on the road is unique and needs to be considered on its own merits.

Some roads just attract clowns

We've got quite a few round here. Especially the faster, straighter roads, people become here's in 2.0 TDI's

Itll never change. Its just annoying and could be quite painful for all involved

It's a very similar story when I goto visit my parents in Cliffe, as soon as you join the Selby ring road its like a race track, people using the whole of the lane's to enter/exit the round-abouts quicker & when leaving the round-abouts they are instantly pulling onto the wrong side of the road to try and overtake (even though they don't have a clear view until they have pulled out passed the width of your car), yet coming up the A19 from the M62 which is alot narrower and slower moving feels to be a safer road.

 

Some road designs just seem to encourage high speeds & more risky manovers (by some poeple)

Disappointed.

 

I thought this thread was going to tell me how I could overtake even more like a **** than now.

I agree with this to an extent but I'm not sure it's so black and white.

I think you need to take into account visibility, weather, road surface, distance to oncoming traffic and it's closing speed, the performance of your own vehicle, other traffic (and the prescence or abscence of chavs lol) to judge it. Each situation on the road is unique and needs to be considered on its own merits.

 

Perhaps I should clarify my original definition.

 

"Can you complete the overtake and regain your side of the road before an oncoming car could (reasonably) reach you?" If you can't complete the overtake without requiring the opposing vehicle to take evasive action, then there's no way this can be safe. And by evasive action, I mean that they have to maintain a particular position within their own lane, or actually swerve.

 

This should allow for relative performance to be taken into account. It goes without saying that weather needs taking into account as well. I won't overtake if it means I have to drive through surface water on the other side which may cause aquaplaning or steering influence.

 

Also, in fog for example, it can get very frustrating on some roads where conditions are sufficient to do 60mph, but not to see far enough ahead to be able to safely overtake the person in front doing 45mph because "it's a bit foggy".

 

Roadcraft golden rule. Drive so that you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear.

 

I was giving this more thought the other evening as I drove through town. It's commonplace under these circumstances to use the most of the available road space to allow both lanes to make progress. To me, the difference is that, at sub-30 mph, you can make eye contact with the car coming the other way; you don't need as much stopping distance due to the lower speed; and even if you did have a bump, the consequences are not likely to be dire.

 

On the other hand, when you commit to an overtake at >60mph, the distances required to stop are much larger; you can only assume that the other person is going to maintain their road position or even that they have seen you at all; and a collision head on is likely to be very serious.

 

This attitude of "I can overtake if you move over"....where does this end? "I'm pulling out of this junction even though you have the right of way because you've got time to stop"?

 

The use of courtesy and respect for other's right of way seem to have disappeared down the bog.

 

By the way, a head on collision between two cars doing 60mph is NOT equal to doing 120 into an immoveable object. It's equal to doing 60mph into an immovable object. Mythbusters proved that 

Perhaps I should clarify my original definition.

 

"Can you complete the overtake and regain your side of the road before an oncoming car could (reasonably) reach you?" If you can't complete the overtake without requiring the opposing vehicle to take evasive action, then there's no way this can be safe. And by evasive action, I mean that they have to maintain a particular position within their own lane, or actually swerve.

 

 

By that definition, you can never overtake, because the vehicle you are overtaking may require to swerve, say to avoid a wooly bear caterpillar. 

"By that definition, you can never overtake, because the vehicle you are overtaking may require to swerve, say to avoid a wooly bear caterpillar."

If his eyesight is that good, he could have stopped in the distance he could see to be clear, and thus avoided a swerve.

I have been following this thread and it seems to have reached an impasse between those who would, and those who would not, overtake into the face of oncoming traffic on a wider road. I was taught NEVER to be the meat in the sandwich, and to reinforce this if we were caught overtaking between two cars we had to buy the bacon butties for the crew (hence meat in sandwich)

Edited 24 October, 201411 yr by P6bJOHN

I dont think we'll ever agree on this lol.

Theres too many different scenarios and POV

I dont think we'll ever agree on this lol.

Theres too many different scenarios and POV

 

You're right there. It is interesting though as to how much people's opinions vary and the discussions it raises.  As long as people see it as a discussion/ chance to vent their spleens and not get too wound up then all's good. 

I had to Google that one!