That's a leaf!  This is a road.

 

This is a good one too.

 

 

Can you tell I'm bored?

Looks like there's no overtaking on that first picture too, I reckon the caterpillar is safe

Looks like there's no overtaking on that first picture too, I reckon the caterpillar is safe

No, it's actually the caterpillar who's overtaking like a ****. He's blatantly straddling the middle lane markings and forcing other traffic to move over to let him through..... Lol ;-)

Double yellow lines

That just means i cant park there, right?

Can't really see what the problem is

If something's coming the other way you stay off their side of the road until it's clear,regardless of power,weather etc

You can ride Lady Luck all you like but sooner or later you will regret it

Can't really see what the problem is

If something's coming the other way you stay off their side of the road until it's clear,regardless of power,weather etc

You can ride Lady Luck all you like but sooner or later you will regret it

That's the best post in this entire thread.

That's the best post in this entire thread.

Well, to an extent.

I've overtaken loads of times when i can see something coming, but i know i can get past.

It only takes a second or so to get past in something fast. Yeah, i have to wait for a pretty big space in the fabia, but in a fast car/bike you can nip past in a second or two. Its really not a big job.

Edit: i dont mean splitting lanes here, i mean before the oncoming car approaches.

At one end of the scale you've got the over-cautious, or dawdlers.

 

At the other end of the scale you've got the reckless.

 

I like to think I'm somewhere in-between, not risk averse, but not dangerous.

 

There are always oncoming cars, always. The question is can you see them and can they see you.

 

I'm able to determine when an overtake is appropriate or not and I have safely overtaken on the A64 three-abreast.

This topic has caused a lot of high blood pressure I would imagine, one of the problems is that people who write their views could be describing what they saw but the reader may get a different picture and take a stand on that view, there are lots of points of view to most things. I have found it interesting because of the way different people have a mind set over their own points of view, we are all different in temperament and will all see the same thing in a different way especially if we were not there and have a mental view after reading about the issue

 The things I remember from many years ago was my first instructor telling me that the middle lane is called a suicide lane and keep out of it if possible, always drive within the capabilities of your vehicle , your own capabilities and the scene around you.

We all have different capabilities so have patience with others, the annoying things in life pass quick enough as do the pleasurable ones,

As an older driver I am aware that my responses are not as sharp as they once were and drive accordingly, if that causes someone behind me to have to wait a second or two longer then so be it, I drive to make progress for my benefit and let anyone pass who wants to but that does not mean i have to drive beyond my perceived capabilities so have some patience, no one is perfect, I am sure most folk would rather an old driver kept safe rather than rush around dangerously, by the way, I may have mentioned it before but I have held driving licences for PSV, class 1 HGV, Motor cycles, track laying vehicles and passed my Advanced Driving Test with the IAM, and for some years I drove for North Yorkshire Police (as a civilian) they were happy enough to trust me with their fleet

As a final word I think the OP is correct, no one has any driving curtesy any more and very little patience

Best regards to all

The things I remember from many years ago was my first instructor telling me that the middle lane is called a suicide lane and keep out of it if possible, ll

Why is it the suicide lane? Why shouldn't you use it?

Why is it the suicide lane? Why shouldn't you use it?

Im guessing he means because you'd be in the centre of a crash. If needed I stay in lane 3 until I've stopped flying past things or my engine blows.

Im guessing he means because you'd be in the centre of a crash. If needed I stay in lane 3 until I've stopped flying past things or my engine blows.

On a 3 lane road, i still cant see the hazard?

Distances between any given car within one lane pose much more if a hazard IMO.

I just go with the flow. If im not going faster than anything I'll stay in the first lane, if im going faster than the first lane I'll use the second and so on. Plus if im in the outside lane and somebody comes up behind me I'll move over to let then past.

On a 3 lane road, i still cant see the hazard?

Distances between any given car within one lane pose much more if a hazard IMO.

I just go with the flow. If im not going faster than anything I'll stay in the first lane, if im going faster than the first lane I'll use the second and so on. Plus if im in the outside lane and somebody comes up behind me I'll move over to let then past.

I did exactly that on the A69 trom Skipton to the M6 at Easter a few years back. The overtaker managed to be exactly 3 cars ahead of me when the climbing lane ended, and 2 of them turned off before we hit the M6 North.

 

I'm able to determine when an overtake is appropriate or not and I have safely overtaken on the A64 three-abreast.

 

No you haven't. You've just got away with it. You can juggle chainsaws every day for a week, a month or a year without incident but it is intrinsically dangerous, as is overtaking three abreast. It's Russian Roulette but in this situation you risk not just your own life but the lives of others.

 

It's a subtle difference, granted, but there is a difference between doing something repeatedly and getting away with it, and something which is - in and of itself - safe. 

 

Even if you argue that overtaking in the face of ONE opposing car is safe, having seen that the other car has seen you and moved over, it does not follow that it is safe if a line of cars is approaching. The lead car may well see you overtaking and move over, (let's ignore the question of forcing someone to move over so you can overtake) but the others probably won't. They aren't looking that far ahead.

Im guessing he means because you'd be in the centre of a crash. If needed I stay in lane 3 until I've stopped flying past things or my engine blows.

 

 

On a 3 lane road, i still cant see the hazard?

Distances between any given car within one lane pose much more if a hazard IMO.

I just go with the flow. If im not going faster than anything I'll stay in the first lane, if im going faster than the first lane I'll use the second and so on. Plus if im in the outside lane and somebody comes up behind me I'll move over to let then past.

 

I think you are both missing the point of this thread, and oldtynesiders post.

 

It is not about the middle lane of a 3 lane dual carriageway / Motorway, but the central "overtaking" lane on what is in effect an ordinary A road, with a central lane queezed in between the 2 normal / outer lanes, which traffic going in either direction can pull out into to overtake, leading to the possibility of 2 cars both attempting to overtake in opposite directions at the same time having a head-on collision.

 

In fact, except for crawler lanes on hills, these are now relatively uncommon, but in the 60's and 70's when I began driving / motorcycling they were a common feature on most major "A" roads, and were the scene of many serious and fatal accidents, as their presence led to many drivers being encouraged to "take a chance" The usual cause was someone already in a full overtake being clipped by someone pulling out to check.

Bear in mind that in those days speed limits were a lot more relaxed than today.

 

Gradually they were largely phased out, with the road markings altered to simple 2 lane roads, although driving regularly on these A roads you can clearly see where they were - the road suddenly gets wider.

Well, to an extent.

I've overtaken loads of times when i can see something coming, but i know i can get past.

It only takes a second or so to get past in something fast. Yeah, i have to wait for a pretty big space in the fabia, but in a fast car/bike you can nip past in a second or two. Its really not a big job.

Edit: i dont mean splitting lanes here, i mean before the oncoming car approaches.

 

If a fast car or bike means you can regain your side of the road before the opposing car reaches you, then  

 

No objections from me.

Many years ago I had a friend at College with an Anglia 1200,cut down springs and huge wheels.

He used to overtake everywhere on single carriageways up the middle of the road saying "There's room for 3,room for 3....."

He's also been Dead for many years...... :'(

Saw this advert on TV over in New Zealand. 

Not about overtaking as such but the overall message is still 

applicable to the subject of this thread. 

It was aired a lot while I was over there, not forgetting they 

have a limit of 100kph or 60mph. And certainly in the South island 

mainly single lane each way  roads, no dual carriageways as such. 

A fantastic way to get the point across I thought. 

 

I think you are both missing the point of this thread, and oldtynesiders post.

It is not about the middle lane of a 3 lane dual carriageway / Motorway, but the central "overtaking" lane on what is in effect an ordinary A road, with a central lane queezed in between the 2 normal / outer lanes, which traffic going in either direction can pull out into to overtake, leading to the possibility of 2 cars both attempting to overtake in opposite directions at the same time having a head-on collision.

In fact, except for crawler lanes on hills, these are now relatively uncommon, but in the 60's and 70's when I began driving / motorcycling they were a common feature on most major "A" roads, and were the scene of many serious and fatal accidents, as their presence led to many drivers being encouraged to "take a chance" The usual cause was someone already in a full overtake being clipped by someone pulling out to check.

Bear in mind that in those days speed limits were a lot more relaxed than today.

Gradually they were largely phased out, with the road markings altered to simple 2 lane roads, although driving regularly on these A roads you can clearly see where they were - the road suddenly gets wider.

Yeah i know what the topic is about. We were just going off topic abit and discussing other scenarios.

No you haven't. You've just got away with it. You can juggle chainsaws every day for a week, a month or a year without incident but it is intrinsically dangerous, as is overtaking three abreast. It's Russian Roulette but in this situation you risk not just your own life but the lives of others.

 

It's a subtle difference, granted, but there is a difference between doing something repeatedly and getting away with it, and something which is - in and of itself - safe. 

 

Even if you argue that overtaking in the face of ONE opposing car is safe, having seen that the other car has seen you and moved over, it does not follow that it is safe if a line of cars is approaching. The lead car may well see you overtaking and move over, (let's ignore the question of forcing someone to move over so you can overtake) but the others probably won't. They aren't looking that far ahead.

I'm going to presume that you don't stop every time you see on-coming traffic on 2-lane. Explain how that situation is any different for a lone car approaching a string than the one you hypothesise.

Ken

 

I assume that that the lead car in a line is looking ahead a reasonable distance, but that each car following behind is only looking (broadly) at the back of the car in front and no further. Therefore, if the lead car has to move left to make way for someone overtaking up the white line, then the second, third and fourth cars probably won't see the approaching, overtaking car until it's too late because a) they're only looking at the back of the car in front and b; the overtaking car is at least partially obscured by the car in front. 

 

In order to overtake up through the white line (again, I'm talking about a wide, single carriageway) you have to have a LOT of faith in the observation skills of the opposing traffic, and a lot of faith in luck.

 

My philosophy is that my side of the road is exactly that - MY side. It is for traffic heading in the same direction as me. If you want to use MY side of the road, or any part of it, wait until the road is clear and it is safe to do so. Otherwise stay on YOUR side of the road.

 

Isn't this why we have lines on the road and lanes? If, in fact, driving has now degenerated into a free for all, let's stop painting lanes and we can all drive anywhere we want.

 

Also as a matter of preference, I like to have as much room between me and the car I'm overtaking too. Why squeeze through a gap if, by waiting for a more suitable opportunity, you don't have to? It's not like you're driving to an emergency.... and yes I know emergency vehicles do this but they have a pressing need to make progress that most of us don't possess, and they have flashing lights and sirens to increase their presence on the road.

Saw this advert on TV over in New Zealand. 

Not about overtaking as such but the overall message is still 

applicable to the subject of this thread. 

It was aired a lot while I was over there, not forgetting they 

have a limit of 100kph or 60mph. And certainly in the South island 

mainly single lane each way  roads, no dual carriageways as such. 

A fantastic way to get the point across I thought. 

 

 

I see the point you're making here. Personally, I would not want to bet my life (or anyone else's) on someone else having to take avoiding action, all so I can gain a couple of car lengths which will be lost a mile or so later at the Morrisons roundabout.

Ken

 

I assume that that the lead car in a line is looking ahead a reasonable distance, but that each car following behind is only looking (broadly) at the back of the car in front and no further. Therefore, if the lead car has to move left to make way for someone overtaking up the white line, then the second, third and fourth cars probably won't see the approaching, overtaking car until it's too late because a) they're only looking at the back of the car in front and b; the overtaking car is at least partially obscured by the car in front. 

 

In order to overtake up through the white line (again, I'm talking about a wide, single carriageway) you have to have a LOT of faith in the observation skills of the opposing traffic, and a lot of faith in luck.

 

My philosophy is that my side of the road is exactly that - MY side. It is for traffic heading in the same direction as me. If you want to use MY side of the road, or any part of it, wait until the road is clear and it is safe to do so. Otherwise stay on YOUR side of the road.

 

Isn't this why we have lines on the road and lanes? If, in fact, driving has now degenerated into a free for all, let's stop painting lanes and we can all drive anywhere we want.

 

Also as a matter of preference, I like to have as much room between me and the car I'm overtaking too. Why squeeze through a gap if, by waiting for a more suitable opportunity, you don't have to? It's not like you're driving to an emergency.... and yes I know emergency vehicles do this but they have a pressing need to make progress that most of us don't possess, and they have flashing lights and sirens to increase their presence on the road.

We've finally got somewhere - What I mean is that I will overtake on the line  on a "once was 3 lane" road if and only if the oncoming traffic is already far enough left to allow me to do so without requiring any more co-operation than that they do not deliberately move into my path.

OK, I see where you're coming from. I still wouldn't do that, but I see what you mean.

 

I guess my OP was originally (mainly) aimed at people who seem to think that they have a god given right to overtake regardless of the existence, or road position, of oncoming traffic. As I said, I've had a couple of instances where people have forced me to swerve - not just ease over- but actually swerve to miss them.