Interesting guide about 1.4tsi fundamental design problems

[Ootohere]

Bump for new members.

 

The OP Post #1,  really should be 'pinned'

 

This covers the various issues with a a variety of the Euro 5 1.4TSI Twinchargers Volkswagen built.

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

[tattyjay]

Need to get around to checking the plugs over the break. Interested to see what's happening.

http://m.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-assess-trouble-by-checking-your-spark-plugs.html

[pearce_jj]

Bump for new members.

 

The OP Post #1,  really should be 'pinned'

 

 

And maybe some of the other outdated pinned posts unpinned....

Edited 15 December, 2014 by pearce_jj

[Ootohere]

Bump.

[Wakey]

HEre's the confusing thing - according to mateys breakdown of the flawa of the CAVE and the subsequent change history issued by VW; it would appear that the issues are down to design flaws

 

If this is the case then why are only a percentage affected? Why are there lots of good 'uns out there?

[Richf]

HEre's the confusing thing - according to mateys breakdown of the flawa of the CAVE and the subsequent change history issued by VW; it would appear that the issues are down to design flaws

If this is the case then why are only a percentage affected? Why are there lots of good 'uns out there?

Exactly , and why much of what you read on the Internet about these engines has to be taken with a large pinch of salt .

[Ootohere]

Volkswagen might actually know which parts were sourced and when and used in which weeks engine productions.

and which combinations of parts are used in which series of engines are failing or failed.

Actually they pretty well do know which engine batches have had and likely will have issues.

 

As they know which DSG were filled with Synthetic Oil or Mineral oil on the Production line,

Which Mechatronic Control Units and Coil Packs were use and from which suppliers,

and which now require the 'Service Campaign and which do not.

http://skoda.co.nz/news/dsg-service-campaign

As an example after they knew these vehicles required action the Factory was still producing DSG with Synthetic oil in.

 

After all they have full traceability.

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK

 

So VW know when and where Faulty or Potentially Faulty Parts were supplied and used in production,

where they did require replacement, when they decided to change the Engines Parts, Breather & Valve Mods & when the Engine Management

Updates, New Engine, New ECU, Yet more changes to Breathers & Engine Management. (not forgetting Squirters)

http://revotechnik.com/support/technical/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

 

...................................................

No Internet myth.   Maybe ask the Briskoda Members with the cars that went wrong if it was their imagination 

or all abused this car, and all their other cars engines also fail before or after they moved on from the Twinchargers.

& remember only 1,800 Skoda Twinchargers in the UK were sold with CAVE & then 1,200 with CTHE from Late 2012

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced

 

Maybe needs taken with a pinch of salt, and we will be told people come to forums when they have faults.

Funnily people with no faults will often have no sympathy or understanding of the issues those with Faulty 

cars are having.

Edited 28 January, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Richf]

Funnily people with no faults will often have no sympathy or understanding of the issues those with Faulty 

cars are having.

Thats not true at all but lets be honest this is far from the only engine in the VW stable with issues !!

 

These kind of problems are widespread with other manufacturers as well , Porsche bore scoring for example, BMW liners, I myself was victim to a £40k Mercedes that rusted within 5 years 

 

Even those of us who dont have an issue are still saddled with a pretty much worthless car so it is an issue for all of us !!

 

I just get fed up with endless copy and pastes from people claiming to know what they are talking about, same rubbish recycled ad nauseum 

 

The fact remains , not all cars are affected in fact much less than half and that includes those modified , so this isnt a design issue

[Ootohere]

20% is much less than 1/2 (50%)  but getting on for 1/3 & 33% is quite a lot, 

when only 1,800 were sold in the UK,

and replacement engines have failed.

 

And then about 4,000 CAVE / CTHE Engines were in the 3 sister cars in the UK,

and the CAVE had a similar failure rate.

 

If you can find a car other than those with the Mazda Engine with a similar failure rate in the past 20 years please name it.

 

2 or 3 or 4 wrongs do not make a right.  So Manufacturers having issues is maybe for that Brands Forums.

& Porsche is also a VWG Manufactuter, so there is some similarity there.

 

As to rusting and corrosion, 

different subject, and maybe for a different thread.

[Ootohere]

That is the Elephant in the room.

 

Those with a vRS Fabia MK2 think that their value of the car is down because of reports of failing engines.

Well in truth very few knew of the Issues in the Car Trade,

& the residuals were much as with any VWG product, and better than with many.

 

If 20% were failing, 2 out of 10,  then 8 were all well.

But the VWG did not make any attempt to be sure that the Owners were aware of the potential issues,

did no service campaign, 

& even put cars that owners rejected back into the Trade with no Actions taken on the cars,

Franchised Skoda / VW / Audi /SEAT Dealership Employees even said, 'They all do that',  

They all use oil,

while some then over filled with oil.

 

If you have a none Oil using Twincharger it is hardly impossible to sell it and get the same money as 

you might get with any similar car.

 

If you are keeping and not selling because you have a good one,

why does its value matter?

 

PS

I might not know what i am speaking about.

But i have never 'Copied & pasted' ever.

All links are typed in by 1 finger, and all text is typed by that same finger, the one next to the middle one.

.....................................

£15,000 car in 2010-11. 10/61/11 plate.

so now available as a 14/64 plate under 1000 miles for £13,000 at a Skoda dealer.

 

the first cars 4 1/2 year old easily sell for £5,000, more like £7,000.

so hardly 'Worthless'.

How much do people expect for a Car you could buy for £14,500 new when it is 12 months past its 3 year Manufacturers Warranty & 4 years old ?

Edited 28 January, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Wakey]

So I've re read the information on the link and basically the chap claims that the reason some engines consume the large oil quantities is down to piston failure and VAG replaced the pistons with upgraded items.

 

So, for the cars that are currently being discussed in the Forum with regard to oil consumption and the dealership offering breather mods, surely they should be carrying out compression tests and/or leak down tests? Especially when they have an ideal opportunity if they are for example changing the plugs too.

[sharkrider]

breather mod is cheap, so they go that way first.

 

the CTHE has different pistons, rings, and breather systems to the CAVE.

[Ootohere]

When a 2009-2012 1.4 TSI CAVE was accepted as having issues, there were ones that had new Rings / Scrapers Fitted.

After that the First Breather Pipe & Valve Mod was Introduced, then there is now a Different Breather Pipe.

'Squirters' now being offered as a Solution.

 

The thing is there are plenty of CAVE Engines from around 2009-2010 still with Original Engines,

Original Rings, Original Breather pipes which have never been changed, and do not use Oil.

 

& VW stopped building those engines to fit in new cars late 2012 anyway.

So the Newest CAVE engines that were OEM fitted are over 2 years old.

 

VW Supplied Replacement CAVE Engines from 2011-2012 that failed, and still did in 2013.

Actually CTHE Engines from Late 2012 on have failed and required Replacement.

[alloyvee]

The thing is there are plenty of CAVE Engines from around 2009-2010 still with Original Engines,

Original Rings, Original Breather pipes which have never been changed, and do not use Oil.

 

 

I think Skoda need to buy one of these cars back, pull the engine down and try to figure out what they did right!!

[Ootohere]

I will give them mine, or maybe Brian will.

Swap for a newer one.

 

They actually had cars rejected and returned with issues and they went into the car trade again without the faults being repaired.

Many many faulty cars left floating about Dealerships that people just got shot of because Seat, Skoda, VW & Audi Dealerships 

said they were within tolerances and nothing was wrong with them.

Service Schedule & Guidelines for Spark Plugs left at 40,000 miles for 5 years, even though plenty of cars had premature failure 

of 1 spark plug.

& still Dealers would Plug in a Car, find no Misfire Codes, and not check the 4 spark plugs.

 

Worse than Kerb Side Motors with some of these 'Factory Trained Technicians', and the actual Factory Engineers are taking the Mick.

[Wakey]

How long have you had yours George? How many miles has it done?

[Ootohere]

Worth reading the Linked thread from the Seat forum.

[Ootohere]

Bumped yet again,

for vxh26 to again read and research and further his extensive knowledge of an engine he has no actual experience of.

 

& maybe we can forget the issues when tuning, and concentrate on the failures of Standard Engines as built by Volkswagen 

& sold between 2009-2015.

[rawcpoppa]

What peeves me off more is that the twincharger has been around since 2006! You would have thought by now that the issues would have been completely sorted.

For those saying that 20% failure isn't bad you need to research what is considered a "good" failure rate. 20% is ridiculous on such an expensive component as an engine. Let's not even go down the route of dsg either.

[Ootohere]

Bumping for a new member, 

not just some random bump.

 

Remember and check those spark plugs if you have EPC or Exhaust Control Management Warning LIghts.

& the Coils if all 4 Spark Plugs are good, faulty plugs causing misfires can kill Ignition Coils

 the Manufactures Service Schedule / Guidelines are far too long on the OEM Plugs.

[Wakey]

How is a 20% failure rate being calculated then? Who has the data on numbers sold and engine failure?

What does the term failure represent? Is it engine non running?

Is it excessive oil consumption?

Is it engines that have failed the consumption test?

Nobody only the VAG have this data. All we know is guesswork. A nice round 20%. Yeah that sounds ok. 1 in 5.

All this speculating is of no help to anything or anyone. Its just speulation. Guesswork. *******s.

We might as well rename the forum...call it 'The Sun' or something similar to compliment the sensationalist claims.

[Ootohere]

Of the 1,825 Skoda Twinchargers registered between May 2010 and September 2012 it is over 20% within the Original Engines and Rebuilt and Replaced ones done under Warranty, that is due to the Oil Consumption, Valve and Spark plugs failing damaging an engines bore in that cylinder and requiring a Replacement engine.

Ask Volkswagen / Skoda for the actual figures.

 

They can confirm it is greater than 360 engines brought into the UK just for fitting to the Mk2 vRS Fabia 1.4 TSI CAVE.

(more than 400 Engines some while back.)

 

Then there are those for the CAVE Engine Seat Ibiza, Polo & Audi A1.

Also Replacement engines for the CTHE Failures.

A lower percentage of failed engines in the CTHE / CAVG etc from 2012-2015.

 

If the claims are sensationalist at 20 % failure, would they be acceptable and more believable and less sensationalist if only being said as a 10% Failure rate requiring Replaced Engines.

eg 182.  or is it to be 5% and 91.

They were at that rate a long time back, when still in the original Manufacturers Warranty Period.

 

One Dealership Group had Replaced 33 Engines over 2 years ago just in Fabia Mk2 vRS.

Edited 16 June, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Wakey]

Hey George thanks for the reply; how do you have this data and how certain are you that it is correct?

[Ootohere]

Very certain. 

People that work for companies and manufacturers that are going to lie to customers and try to treat them like idiots are more than prepared to assist.

Not just disgruntled ex emplyees, after all everyone will have friends and family that can be done wrong by greedy companies that do not do the right thing.

[Wakey]

Whilst i don't disagree with you on companies lying i can also be realistic and accept that the way they deal with things has to be carefully managed.

In an ideal world then vag would just say 'ok we have engine issues across the board lets call them back and put it right.

Doing that though would possibly ruin the company in many ways. Its not just a matter of allocating a few billion to right the wrong. They will suffer in share value and customer sales for years...if they can afford to pay for the work.

The only way they can realistically sort this is by taking care of the ones that shout loudest.

You often quote the brand managers name; that Alistair character. All he cares about is damage limitation. He wont take the brand personally. He doesn't bleed skoda blood. He wont care too much about individuals as such...just the number of individuals affected.

What im saying is that whilst its not great that some engines suffer its not worth waging war either. All the brand bashing just hurts residuals further and everyone suffers.