Erm,

As previously mentioned, the reason I now run winter tyres is precisly because I failed to get up said Drumrammer brae in the 2010 Snow, the brand new/3 month old Octavia being fitted with plastic Turenza tyres, which were absolutly useless, compared to all other tyres I had had exp of.

On my final marginally overfast for prudence "run" I near made it, only to slide down backwards, oh the ignomy!

This after a wee old Peugeot Partner van "pootled" up the hill past me with NO FUSS! (While I was waiting way back on the flat for the road to clear to get a good run at the brae)

Despite being aware of winter tyres for years, and their advertised properties, only once getting them actually fitted, was the stupendous difference clear.

Especially on hard packed smooth frozen snow.

Cheers

M

Yup. Mines got the plastic turanza's on too! Not for much longer though! Haha.

Winters do make such a difference dont they. Had them on last car and it just kept going. Was brill.

Richf,

In Snow and on Snow is rather different things,

Like Eskimos we have many types of Snow on roads,

Fresh Fallen, Drifting, Wet, Frozen, and treated & Ploughed and compacted & then getting water on top.

 

What ever works, when and where obviously.  

 But 'S' is useful, if you find it not, then no need to use it obviously.

Edited 29 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

I spent a year working in conditions like this . Thats me driving the tug , I was also the guy who drove the snow plough (ever wondered how the guy who drives the snow plough gets to work) . I would say I'm pretty experienced in extremely harsh weather and pretty much every kind of snow but whatever the type of snow your driving should stay consistant , its really not hard. The only people who find it hard are those who drive too fast and dont forward plan

 

 

So you reckon in a Skoda Fabia vRS that 'S' is of no use or advantage on Descents & hilly roads, Snow covered or icy,

& in 'D' and engine braking is enough?

 

Thats fair enough really, if thats your experience of trying it.

 

(Airstrips are usually & in the main built to be flat are they not?)

Never really wondered how the guy that drives the snow plough gets to work,

sometimes i give him a lift, and sometimes he takes me.  He does my welding for me,

seeing as he is a Blacksmith when not doing the Winter Job.

Edited 29 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

Bet that Jimneys good fun this time of year

Rear Wheel Drive & Automatic, lots of fun on slipy roads,  (You have to select Front Wheel Drive and seldom required.)

Especially when on totally inappropriate tyres.

 but nice and safe on snow in any configuration.

Edited 29 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

A guy whom I know to be a keen non-professional Rally driver told me of visiting Norway for some rally or other, and when "driving on", in a hire car,  between stages, they were passed by a kid in a beat-up old Volvo.

Up the road at the local shop, they come across the Volvo parked outside, and the "kid" takes an inordinate getting out, only for them to realize it was a little old lady.

Ouch!

I was brought up in Central/Eastern Europe and learned to drive with snow in all forms as well as ice in all forms on the roads.

If all four wheels are on the ice you can still brake, steer and accelerate but speeds are so low that most people are not able to do it and auto boxes are generally useless - but this is driving your car on winter, non studded rubber on a proper ice rink. Black ice rarely covers the entire available road and the key is to simply avoid it. Snow, unless with it's top surface polished to an ice rink quality has generally good grip so off the ice and into the snow to get traction. If you are driving in winter conditions and hit an ice patch with all four wheels on it you are a passenger with zero control until your speed drops to give you a min steering availability, then try to get out of there. If you cannot and impact is imminent at least try to position your car (if you have any steering) to achieve impact at the best angle - turn your wheels so they hit a kerb head on instead of sideways at the least .

Many a time in UK when country was brought to a standstill I was driving on the non unploughed lane of the motorway wearing winter rubber in my 5-series. Lane was empty where the "treated lane" was chock a block with drivers driving bumper to bumper on summer tyres which was making my skin crawl as it was an accident waiting to happen. Somebody wrote here that the most important thing is the ability to recognise the real level of your abilities and to act accordingly .

 

As to the original question and my MK2 Fabia vRS I personally can only achieve the control I am happy with using the 7-speed DSG gearbox in manual in winter, low traction conditions. "S" mode keeps the low gears to long and "D" mode dowshifts too early for me when accelerating or too late when slowing down. I can also control the amount of engine braking being in manual much better that in any of the auto modes.

 

One thing worth remembering is that crap quality winter tyres can be much worse than good quality summer tyres in winter conditions.

NO tyres apart from studded or chained ones work on ice unless you drive at walking pace.

 

There is another misconception about winter driving. Heavier cars are better to drive in winter conditions than lighter ones.

Not true, heavier ones lose traction later than lighter ones but they also regain that lost traction later - physics basics

 

Somebody wrote about spinning tyres to get out of a parking space. If your tyres are spinning you are not going anywhere in a hurry lol. The whole game is about keeping your tyres FROM spinning, be it winter driving or summer track driving .

 

P.S. Just drove 1000miles across Europe last night, was fun! Where I drove from one day temps were at +10C. Puddles and all around. Suddenly it dropped by 15C overnight. Roads were completely dry apart from the puddles and wet patches from the previous day. All froze to solid ice. Was fun watching drivers who spent their whole lives driving in such conditions pirouetting around. Conditions, especially changing ones can make a fool out even the best skilled drivers in the world:)

I still dont see how you're supposed to avoid black Ice when you cant even see it. Especially when its dark.

By nature, it blends in, thats why its black ice and not just any old ice

I know sometimes it can be seen

But I've seen it where all the roads been fine, gritted and damp (grit seems to hold the moisture doesnt it). Then theres been a a stretch across the road thats frozen. Could barely tell if you were stood next to it so not much chance in a car.

Where the water has run from the field at the side and spread across the road.

Without doing walking pace you wouldnt see it. Obviously you wouldnt be going too fast because of the temps, but still too far to see it

But, erm?, even with my poor night vision (due to being short-sighted, rods n cones n all that) over 37 years driving on rural roads regardless of the time of year or weather or time of day or night or youthful testerone.(Ok my eyesight was better way back then!)

I have never "failed to see" or been "caught out", I just "knowed" when to slow up, sufficiently.

And yes I have spun, momentarily lost control etc, BUT ONLY when expecting too, or at least being well aware of the likelyhood of so doing, NEVER "unexpected".

Despite regarding speed limits as guidance rather than an absolute (like most of us do)

Only had 1 minor at fault accident in those 37 years too, despite some near 700,000 miles driving, a rear end shunt on entering a roundabout in about 1988.

PS

The statement somewhere above in this post about roads being capable of being frozen despite temps being above freezing, can only, as far as I am aware, refer to "Hoar" Frost, which is to say the ice crystals that accrue due to  being formed from atmospheric moisture, which frost is not particularly slippery as the macrotexture of the road surface is still present.

I may well be somewhere on the Autistic spectrum(mildly so, only), as I am aware I am not that good socially, being happier with machinery than with most other people.

cheers

M

There is a difference between Air Temperatures as is often read at 2 meters above the ground,

& cars 'Temperatures' read at Mirror height or Bumper / Grill height.  

Then Ground / Grass Frost temperatures. (road surface temperatures)

 

Ground / Road temperatures can be below the Air Temperature,

& lower in Dips, due to 'Sink' effect.

Then there can be areas that were in the shade and never warmed up or defrosted during a period.

 

The Driver of the Snow Plough and Air Craft tug might know all about Salt & Freezing points 

& laying the Salt Down at around 6*oC to absorb Moisture & turn to Brine and inhibit and change the freezing point of H20.

 

If you ever work at an Ice Rink, or Ski Centre, Fishing Boats, maybe in Refrigeration or places that need to Produce or Create Ice or Snow you quickly learn about Freezing Points & Cold, Air & Ground Temperatures, Cold Sinks, Heat Transfer etc.

 

Plenty on line, because Ice & Frosts is a well studied subject.

http://accuweather.com/en/weather-news/black-ice-dangers/22052530

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

Is the fabias temp sensor in the mirror then George?

I was wondering this the other day

Or live in a rural location, literally on (or more correctly beside) a steep brae, only 3 miles and a few meters difference in elevation from the nearby town that got quite different weather(most noticible in winter, with a snowline between, bytimes)

grow up on a farm/exposed to the effects of weather/always asking why?

live near a frost hollow and observe the wonders of nature etc etc

PS

Any "idiot" (or one that is capable of passing the driving test) should know about shelter from hedges or ditchs preventing frost or ice thawing, that is patently obvious, to someone of my generation, with my upbringing.

Cheers (all a little "tongue-in-cheek btw)

Marcus

PS

I would have assumed the air temp sensor was housed somewhere in about a front or rear wheel arch?

The chill factor due to mirror housing mounting is surely a serious factor, that would be absent in a wheel arch?

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by dieseldogg

Common sense and an education, or just the environment you are brought up in helps lots.

 

But then some people do not have rural background or even peers of elders with the sense they were born with.

So when giving advice you often do that to the lowest common denominator.

 

Quickly learned when dealing with Apprentices & Trainees.

Never take for granted they have common sense or knowledge.

 

Driving Tests in the UK do not mean that drivers ever leave a City, or will have driven on a Motorway,

or that they are in a area that very often has Frosts.

They might never have been on a Push Bike before learning to drive.

Many never have.

They can pass their test in a Manual & then drive an Automatic or Automated Manual, 

and there has to be a First Winter sometime.

 

Very tongue in cheek.

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

Yeah its true. Many live a sheltered life dont they. Many never have the need to leave the city though i guess.

I live about 2 miles from the highest village in Britain.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash,_Staffordshire

And then people say 'no need for winter tired, never struggled'. I suspect these are the city drivers aha.

Ooo, we must start a new Highest Village and Highest road thread,

then i can post my Wanlockhead pictures of driving there at well within NSL's, (or maybe not.)

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

Ooo, we must start a new Highest Village and Highest road thread,

then i can post my Wanlockhead pictures of driving there at well within NSL's, (or maybe not.)

I sense sarcasm haha.

Nevertheless. That is a seriously fast road going past flash. One could probably obtain 140mph without issues in varies places in summer, should one want to.

Which nobody would of course. Because that would be illegal, frowned upon and damn right dangerous.

But i reckon... .

No,

i love Flash, Wanlockhead and all the other highest roads and Villages, i have tried to drive to and cycle away from them all and have done now.

(i am rather lazy and like cycling down hill, not up.)

 

In the good old days before Credit Cards you could get fed when snowed in and they took cheques, cash & even IOU's.

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by goneoffSKi

ok, just back from a very snowy Nurburgring. lets just say Winter tyres ruled, i will get some pics and vids up when i get a chance tomorrow, 

Ooo, we must start a new Highest Village and Highest road thread,

then i can post my Wanlockhead pictures of driving there at well within NSL's, (or maybe not.)

 

That looks a stunning place ( Wanlockhead) got to say George I have travelled that A74 on many occasions on the way to the Highlands and stopped off at Moffat frequently but never heard of Wanlockhead before. The little 'A Frame' house/bothy looks great

 

Harry

Well worth a Visit.

& you can get Gold Panning permits at the  Mining Museum. 

 

Maybe head across & then cut across through the Galloway  Forest Park to the South Ayrshire Coast.   wonderful roads & routes.  You can find some of the best and emptiest driving roads in Scotland near Dalmellington / Loch Doon to Girvan.

http://gallowayforestpark.com

http://ayrshirescotland.com/loch-doon.html

 

http://www.leadminingmuseum.co.uk/home.shtml

http://wanlockheadinn.co.uk/accommodation

&

http://www.leadhillsrailway.co.uk

Edited 3 January, 201511 yr by goneoffSKi

I guess this is why the car bongs and flashes the snowflake at temps of 4c as although that's the air tempt the car is reading the ground temps can be significantly lower and mean frost/ice is likely.

 

Just hate this time of year for bad driving. People just carry on regardless and have no though to driving to the conditions. Then sit on your back bumper as you're not "doing the speed limit".

 

Is the fabias temp sensor in the mirror then George?

I was wondering this the other day

 

I believe it's In the front bumper. It then combines the air intake temperature and the temperature sensor data to give you the dash readout.

<snip

Despite regarding speed limits as guidance rather than an absolute (like most of us do)

<snip>

I believe that lots of muppets feel just the same about drinking and driving

Sigh

(i) 37 years and 700,000 miles without ANY serious speed related accidents, or accidents involving pedestrians, i.e a few low-speed fender-benders only.

(ii) A Perfectly clean licence

(iii) NEVER driven a fast car/ high powered car

(iv) Always run on good tyres, incl Winters where appropriate

(v) Always leave plenty of room in front

(vi) Often drive SLOWER than posted or National Limits

(vii) Often make allowances for other inattentive road users.

(viii) Have driven drunk and stocious drunk.

On private land of course, and in other vehicles as well as cars, one does learn why it is generally frowned upon on the Public Highway, though I did know of an Uncle, who drove because he was simply too drunk to walk, drove weekly, and  routinely, and NEVER had an accident???,plus several Alcoholic RUC men, who seemed to manage fine )

Now a "young Buck" fired up on drink who cannot even drive safe when Sober, that is a different matter.

Or "inappropriate" speed combined with Alcohol.

 

SO WIND yer fornicating NECK IN.

old Boy

in the nicest possible way

Edited 5 January, 201511 yr by dieseldogg