Hi there, hoping for some advice about my brakes.

 

I've cleaned them up for the photos - so you can see them in all their horrific glory.

Several of the pipes were marked as advisory on the last MOT, and the next one's due very soon.

I'm also wondering if the rear brake pressure compensator will need replacing - you can see the alloy is pitted and corroded at the pipe connections and I'm concerned that if I remove the pipes, the unit might be too damaged to re-use.

 

 

Any advice/thoughts welcome.

 

 

I've seen a lot worse but you will need to change the brake pipes if they were a advisory last year the MOT examiner will see that when he gets details up this year. Let's be honest brakes are the only things that stop you so spend a few quid and get them sorted. The compensator should be okay but they can corrode with steel connectors into an aluminium body new ones are still available but not cheap I've got a good second-hand one if you need it Also be prepared to struggle with the rear wheel cylinders the good news is They are readily available and not expensive clive

You can always coat up all metal pipes with a layer of grease (copperslick preferably). It's always best to do this anyway to stop corrosion in the first place.

This grease then gets coated with road grime, which less vigilent MOT stations don't bother to wipe away to check under.

If you are really woried, then as rv125 says it's replacement time, but I recall there being a thread a while back about how hard it was to get replacement brake pipes.

I've just painted my brakes, and it's took several weekends.

Depending on how confident you are a break pipe toolkit to make your own is about £15 on eBay. A roll of copper tube is a similar price. I am lucky in Crewe there is an old fashioned Car parts Cornershop and you just take your old pipe to him in the correct shape and he will make you a new one always leaving a little extra length as it's not difficult to lose some if  long but it's impossible to stretch them if they're too short Possibly you could find some were similar also I wouldn't want to replace with steel but to be honest your brake pipes have survived well our cars are getting rather old  and they will be the original ones

In addition to my previous post I've just been to my lock-up to help another member out and I have found a full set of rear brake pipes in copper have been used but obviously will never grow old lol  it may be a challenge posting them to you obviously they don't weigh anything just a strange shape clive

I'm an MOT tester, and from what I can see in the photographs I'd be happy to clean up and grease the brake pipes as they don't look excessively pitted or corroded, but I'd be wanting to replace the rear brake hoses because the ferrules are very corroded.

 

As I said, that's from what I see in the photographs, other sections of brake pipes may be more corroded and need replacing.

Thanks for all the replies.

I had a quote for genuine replacement pipes and hoses - £140 plus VAT for all of them (supply only). That's four hoses and eight pipes, including the two that run front to back. It doesn't really seem too bad considering the time it would save. However, the cars only worth three times that (and still may need other work come the MOT), so I'm keen to just do the bare minimum, and learn the dark art of pipe flaring and brake bleeding at the same time.

I'm quite handy but have never messed with brake lines, so I have a few questions...

Replacement hoses - should they be genuine or do all makes have the same end fittings? Do I need to check the lengths of the old ones?

If I keep the front hoses, will standard new pipe fittings fit onto them or will I need to re-use the old ones?

On the front caliper, the long straight rod sticking out that the hose connects to - does this come off with the hose, or should it stay in place?

The front - to - back pipes are rusty near the regulator (they were noted as advisory) - would it make sense to just replace the rusty section and use a straight union, or is getting the length right quite difficult?

Are the hose fixing clips likely to break up when I try to get them off - where would I get replacements?

Is there a risk of crushing when bending the copper pipe by hand?

Will it be 3/16ths pipe?

Clive - you mention struggling with the rear cylinders - do you mean the pipe connection to the cylinder? What sort of difficulties should I be prepared for?

 

One-man bleeding kits seem to range from a few quid up to £30. Any tips for a reliable make or design would be welcome.

Clive, thanks for the offers - I take it there are four rear pipes in your shed? I would hope it will be easier to make up my own rather than try to sort out transportation, but will let you know if that starts to look like a bad plan.

 

Dave - I showed the worst bits.

 

Thanks again for all your advice.

 

 

 

 

 

For bleeding the brakes, I used the ezibleed kit from halfords, for £20, (you can get them cheaper off ebay). It saves loads of time, and if used correctly it is impossible to suck air back into the braking system.

You can try EPC for aftermarket hoses http://www.eurocarparts.com/brake-hose-and-brake-pipe

Aftermarket pattern part brake hoses will be exactly the same as genuine skoda ones, they arent much more than about 12 quid each from a motor factor.

if you buy genuine hard brake pipes from the dealer, they come pre bent, flared with fittings ready to fit tonthe car, from tps the grake pipes are abiut £8 each uf I recall.

I think there are 7 brake pipes in total on a non abs model, it is possible to take the rear bias adjuster out of the brake circuit completely and use the pressure sensitive valves from an abs model screwed directly into the master cylinder ports before the brake pipe is attached.

You can certainly make your own for less than that. it's not difficult with a little practice there are two types of connection known as a single or double flair.

 

I'll try and answer your questions

 

The straight rod comes with the new flexible holes and is removed

 

There is certainly nothing wrong with replacing a section and you may find this is the only way as the long front back pipes go under the sub-frame and can be hard to get between the subframe and body

 

The clips can be a little fragile try warming up with a hairdryer they are screwed on the car body if you want to remove them they do hold the dirt and cause local corrosion

 

Yes you can crush the copper pipe take your time if you want a tight bend put a socket or something in a vice and bend round it

 

The rear cylinders can be difficult as the brake pipe not will almost certainly be reluctant to come out also if it does go wrong the two screws that hold the wheel cylinder to the back plate will be full of crud make a point of cleaning them out before you put the Alan Kek in to remove them make sure it's fully inserted or you will round them off quite easily.

I agree make your own pipes you may even enjoy it towards the end

 

And finally I've used an easy bleed for years and years and never found anything better but follow the instructions carefully do not use too much pressure under any circumstances I've heard horror stories of people connecting a tire with 40psi and ending up with brake fluid all over the car

Well I've got pipe and tools and bleeding kit on order.

I'm trying to order the rear hoses, the ones on my car measure 200mm.

On ebay, there are several different lengths that apparently fit, from 177mm to 255mm.

Is that normal?

Ok, I checked against the tabs on the rear axle - got to be pretty much 200mm, so the local factors have a couple for £10 each, 195mm long. Off to get them now.

I've got the kit now, just practiced using the flaring tool. I'm just a little confused about single flare, double flare and bubble flare.

 

Which one should I be using?

 

I will have to cut the existing steel pipe and renew the rusty section.

Photo below shows two double flares, into male and female fittings. Can these two join together to link two pipes or do I need a proper Union fitting?

 

 

have a look at

 

 

 

If you search on Google images for  brake pipe flaring You will find lots of pictures to point you in the right direction.As you remove each old pipe examine it carefully to establish which type of end it has and recreate the same remember to put the nuts on facing the right way before you create the flair. I would guess the in line connectors  you will need to purchase will be a single flair both sides Basically you create a single flair by putting the pipe in the tool once and compressing the end . To create a double flair you usually use another adapter or turn the adapter round and compress the pipe again this folds the end of the single flair into itself. You must get a correct connector to join the pipes together you cannot use a male and  female to join 2 pipes together the copper will just bend against itself.

You will find flairing the steel pipes on the car a lot more difficult As the steel is a lot harder than copper a little grease or lubricant may help Don't leave any in the brake pipe though.

Thanks rv, I'm getting clearer now I think.

 

I've just been out to buy a box of female/female connectors, so I could join the old to the new, but on the way home, I realised I probably don't need them. I think I can use male and female connector to form a union but I need to do a single flare for the male part which sits inside a double flare for the female part.

I have photos to clarify, but can't seem to upload atm.

please use the female to female its 100% safe

 

http://image.rodandcustommagazine.com/f/31248084/1001rc_29_o+1949_chevy_brake_lines+inverted_flare_unions.jpg

 

Clive

Ok thanks. I've now replaced all the back section of pipe, from the pressure regulator to both rear wheels, and the last few inches of the two pipes that supply the regulator using proper female-female unions where needed.

I freed the rear bleed screws and the cylinder connections using heat and penetrating fluid, so happy about that!

 

Last years MOT also noted slight corrosion to the front offside pipe, but I'm wondering if I can get away with it as it is (see first post for photo).

My question is about bleeding.

I need to bleed the rear brakes now of course - this will renew virtually all the brake fluid in the system, and I guess I should bleed the front ones too to flush out all the old fluid?

But if I leave the front pipes as they are, and the MOT man says that the front pipes need replacing, will that mean I have to get fresh fluid and bleed the whole system again - front and rear?

Will air get into the system (or rear pipes) if I disconnect the front pipes at the master cylinder?

Thanks for any advice.

You are almost sorted well done your braking system is what's known as dual circuit and the master cylinder reservoir is split into two halves so if you lose fluid from one side you will still have two working brakes .

 

It's advisable to change brake fluid every three years, the recommended procedure this to bleed is right-hand rear, then the left-hand rear, then the right-hand front, finishing left-hand front

 

If you take the top off the master cylinder  before you remove any pipes place. Place some plastic over the top  with an elastic band (I use a disposable glove) this will slow the fluid flow down if you are replacing the pipe from the wheel to the master cylinder it sounds brutal but cut the old pipe with side cutters about 2 inches away from the master cylinder and bend it over with a pair of pliers this will seal the fluid in, then you can take your time routing the new pipe through the engine bay connecting it to the flexible hose at the caliper end finally undo the nut on the master cylinder and quickly remove it and replace with your new pipe. Some cloth underneath to catch the brake fluid is a good idea not forgetting it is pretty good paint remover if left

 

If the brake pedal is solid excellent you have finished if its travelling too far bleed the system again I would just bleed the wheel you been working on first to see if that resolves it

I decided to replace the two front pipes as well, and then I renewed the fluid using the Eezibleed. Had a few drips, but checked all round and tightened - all seems good now. Got a feeling there's still a bit of movement in the pedal - guess that means there's still some air in there....

So my question now - if I try to re-bleed the system to see if there's any air left - can I re-use the fluid that I bleed off - since it's basically new?

 

Thanks for all your help - this is a great forum for knowledge, and I've watched a lot of YT videos too in the last couple of weeks.  MOT on thursday....

I personally wouldn't use fluid that had been through the system even if it's new it could have picked up some contamination, but when I have run out at 8 o'clock at night and to be honest yes I have done in the past

Thanks rv. Well the car failed the MOT, only on emissions though, so the brake work paid off!

They commented that the brakes had a bit of movement too, which could indicate the need for some adjustments to the rear drums or more bleeding, so I'll check the drums first. Soon. ish.

Got to get a new cat and lambda sensor now....

 

Thanks again to all.