Leaders Debate

[Ootohere]

Have you ever thought of moving to the Falklands where almost everyone will be British even if they have never set foot on the British Isles?

[Supurbia]

.Wish I'd not edited that now,

 

Still as I said it's not about where it's about who, if you want gang crime I will give them your place of residence and send them your way,

 

Actually there are a lot of Argentinians living in the Falklands these days

Edited 18 April, 2015 by Supurbia

[Ootohere]

Please go use the NHS,  they might be able to help you.

[Llanigraham]

I see this is starting to develop into a racist rant by certain members.

I wonder where they were born?

[Supurbia]

In England mate, would you like to see my Great Grandfathers WW1 medals he earned in the Royal Navy

 

Ok that's enough, I can see what's happening.

Edited 18 April, 2015 by Supurbia

[gadgetman]

Poor old Nigel is still upset

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/571439/Ukip-lawyers-biased-BBC-Furious-Farage-war-Left-wing-debate-audience

As we all know, his legal action will come to nothing. Just noise for the party faithful who are looking at 1 seat and Farage having his ass handed to him in Thanet. His words are irrelevant as he won't be UKIP leader after 8th May

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6417917/Ukip-could-be-left-with-just-one-MP.html

[Richf]

Not having watched Question time I couldn't comment but the BBC is quite left wing in a lot of its programs , the recent one on Harley Street spoke volumes

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05rdgtp/inside-harley-street-1-make-me-better

[fabdavrav]

Immigration, it is good if they are over here to live like us (the good us) & pull their weight & do a good job.......................

 

That's the theory, the practice though is so far off it ain't true, where I live we have one of the biggest Polish groups  (circa 10,000), & at least 90% arrived since they were allowed free movement, & that's the official council figures, let alone the number of Polish shops & food you see which have sprung up since they arrived. Thing is the money they earn goes on this polish food which is run by Polish people etc, I know several Polish (very difficult not to) & 80% of their wage goes back home.

 

Thing is there is more work starting back home in Poland, so some are moving back, leaving again empty shops etc. this immigrate is a sort of "make hay when sun out then bugger of".it is not good for this countries long term stability!

 

Oh & I have been a "resident alien" which is what you are classed as in the USA, & I lived their way, shopped, lived, worked how they do etc, I did not demand my own churches, shops, schools, nor my own "enclave" .........I got fed up of their way of life & came back here,

 

unfortunately I had to leave London as where I was (Croydon) is so bad for a white male.......ever been surrounded by a gang of coloured youths with knifes at the main bus depot wanting your mate trainers (this was in the late 80's then the Nike air Jordans were £100 plus)......... 

 

& my mum doesn't recognise her home town, just outside Burnley......try spotting a white face there.............the place is a dump compared to what it was before.

 

& I'm now an immigrant up here in Scotland, & if the SNP have their way I'll be kicked out..........but considering I can trace my male line back to the old battle & 100% Scottish & my father got his DNA tested & it is defo up here......so   up yours SNP.............

Edited 19 April, 2015 by fabdavrav

[Richf]

Immigration isn't a problem in the UK its Economic Migration , one we can control and the other we cannot and that's the fundamental issue , the right to control our own borders.

 

Mind you after what has happened in France this week , the rape and murder of a 9yr old girl by a Polish man will feed the right wing political parties to force a change in EU policy

[gadgetman]

Indeed. A large number of Polish and Latvians are indeed moving back, partly because of high living costs here and rising wages there.

Not a huge eastern European influx here as in farming areas, but our town has gone from 10 dedicated shops to 3 larger ones (typically taking over the now vacant shop next door).

Certainly when I go to parents who do live in veg farming area, the car plates are less PL, LT etc and more registration plates are RO and BG.

I guess some will be down to the farmers paying less, but more about the previous influx wanting more than 12-16 hours in a muddy field

[Dr Zoidberg]

A few thoughts and observations on immigration.

At the moment we've got plenty of Eastern Europeans coming to the UK, and the majority of them seem to be doing so to work and make a better life for themselves. While that might have effects here, you can't criticise them for wanting to do that, and more than you could if it was a UK citizen wanting to go to Australia, Canada and so on.

In terms of integration into society we are seeing exactly the same pattern that happened when we were seeing lots of Afro Caribbeans or Asians in the last century. Quite a lot of them aren't well paid by UK standards so they have little choice about where they live - in cheap housing with other immigrants who are similarly stuck. If you get a lot of Poles living together is it then really any surprise that you have a few shops selling Polish food? It certainly doesn't cause any harm - they are paying their taxes and stopping shops sitting empty.

That's not all the European migrants though - there's plenty that live side by side with the "natives" without issue and fit in just fine. I was out Bowling on Friday with a group of friends from all over Europe and further afield, all of whom are making a much better contribution to UK society than plenty of people born here.

It's exactly the same that you see where there's a lot of UK ex-pats living abroad, especially if it's somewhere that English isn't the main language. You'll find lots of little England colonies in Spain, Portugal, Greece and so on. If it's somewhere like New Zealand where language isn't an issue then people mix more.

[Supurbia]

A very good post Dr Z and not far from my own thoughts,

 

However it is very important that a filter is in place to ensure that only the good apples are allowed to stay, we've enough home grown criminals of our own to deal with already,

 

Your point regarding British migrants who've gone the other way, they sicken me tbh, they like those I moan about should not have migrated if they wanted to take the UK with them, if I ever do escape (I wish I'd gone mainland 25 years ago tbh as I like the Holland,France,Spain etc type countries) I'll be having a nap in the afternoon, cycling to work and dieting on wine & cheese like they do as it will be my main priority to fit into their ways not take mine to them,

 

We do however have to face up to the fact that if the current system of free movement of the money continues our pot will get smaller and smaller and any hope of an economic recovery will be gone as less and less equals nothing eventually,

 

I'd like to add all the replies since my last one have been of constructive truth rather than point the card ones and I thank you all for that and you fabdav for having the nuts to post up your experiences in life and where it's led you.

[gadgetman]

Going into fastfood retail outlets through work, there is a definite shift in migration.

Previously certain stores were staffed primarily by Asian and Muslim staff. This then shifted slightly to Those from Indonesia, before eastern European migrants came significantly in the last 3-5 years.

As each racial background was replaced, the previous workers moved up in social standing. Even between eastern EU workers there is a definite attitude towards others from another eastern EU country. I've seen one worker come in for a job and then been mocked after they'd left because they weren't from the same country.

The few Hungarian, Bulgarian and Romanian workers I've seen in these same stores are definitely at the bottom of the pecking order and likely pay reflects this.

However as most are payed the same minimum wage under legislation, it's typically down to British workers shunning these jobs that a market for immigrant workforces exists.

Veg pickers, cleaners, restaurant workers etc etc all have vacancies but no British workers want to do these jobs.

[Ootohere]

Amazing amount of ignorance abounds on Central & Eastern Europeans. 

Lots of it on this forum as usual.

 

Sometimes i wonder if people might think.  'They all Look alike, so they are all the same'.

 

Plenty well Educated from Mainland Europe come to work in the UK, hard working, with higher education, Skills & Qualifications,

multi-lingual, and more tolerant than many bampots in the UK that live on Benefits and think the world owes them everything.

[gadgetman]

Indeed George.

Certainly those I come across through work, work hard and take pride in what they do.

[kevberlin]

Amazing amount of ignorance abounds on Central & Eastern Europeans. 

Lots of it on this forum as usual.

 

Sometimes i wonder if people might think.  'They all Look alike, so they are all the same'.

 

Plenty well Educated from Mainland Europe come to work in the UK, hard working, with higher education, Skills & Qualifications,

multi-lingual, and more tolerant than many bampots in the UK that live on Benefits and think the world owes them everything.

Well said that man!

[Dr Zoidberg]

Indeed George.

Certainly those I come across through work, work hard and take pride in what they do.

Yep, if it wasn't for the Polish engineers at work, we'd struggle to fill the jobs.

[Supurbia]

Amazing amount of ignorance abounds on Central & Eastern Europeans. 

Lots of it on this forum as usual.

 

Sometimes i wonder if people might think.  'They all Look alike, so they are all the same'.

 

Plenty well Educated from Mainland Europe come to work in the UK, hard working, with higher education, Skills & Qualifications,

multi-lingual, and more tolerant than many bampots in the UK that live on Benefits and think the world owes them everything.

 

 

My posts aren't aimed soley at EU migrants, the ones within the EU are entitled to be here, my main gripe is those that arrive who aren't supposed to be here and have simply made their way here to profit, now I don't blame them for trying their luck that isn't an issue but before long if things go unchecked you'll have a whole African country arriving here as word goes about what it's like in the UK, it's an extreme scenario but one that isn't unimaginable,

 

I've worked with them all and some are good and some bad, the bad do not obey any rules and it's always someone elses fault and the common thought among the conditioned is that there aren't any bad ones and everyone else is simply a hater making it up because they don't like anyone different,

 

Then there's the race card, people think it's only the British who can be accused of this but I've seen many examples of the race card being played by one migrant on another and that's real fact,

 

With the multi language thing, ok you could say the average Brit is too lazy to learn another language but as English is now the internationally adopted business language it's much easier for 40 different people from 40 different countries to learn one language i.e English than a British person to try to learn 40 other languages,

 

It's all too easy assume everyone is a racist, it's also all too easy for others to assume the British should be happy to step aside, have you considered how many of the now benefit scroungers as you put it (I'm sure I could come up with an equally good term as racist for this as it's still a hate phrase on another body of people as racist is on others btw) would not be those type of persons had they had the chance of a career, the way I see it is somebody dumped these people in high rise council estates and said to hell with them, 2 generations on you now have a society of people who accept the doors are shut to them so they simply help themselves and be anti social, if you need some sort of comparison the film Trading Places is a good place to start, you can 99% of the time change someones surroundings and watch them adapt to fit into whether it be a good or bad direction.

[Supurbia]

I also know migrants from Asia and the EU who are more humped off about immigrants than any UK citizen is as well, pots got so much smaller now and they are noticing they are now the undercutter whose being undercut, hows that for a proper cluster****?

[fabdavrav]

Amazing amount of ignorance abounds on Central & Eastern Europeans. 

Lots of it on this forum as usual.

 

Sometimes i wonder if people might think.  'They all Look alike, so they are all the same'.

 

Plenty well Educated from Mainland Europe come to work in the UK, hard working, with higher education, Skills & Qualifications,

multi-lingual, and more tolerant than many bampots in the UK that live on Benefits and think the world owes them everything.

 

I like to give people the benefit of doubt first, then give them enough rope & they usually hang themselves!...........

 

Quite a few polish that I have met up here are good & ok, but also quite few are just in for a quick £ & treat this place like a dump,  & ignore the rules etc & basically when caught out play the "you're picking on me because I'm Polish" card...................I've seen this with my own eyes & experiences, & even those with high pay/experience/qualifications, so not just exclusive to the "farm workers" type either!...

 

TBH as said before now this will probably be replaced with the Romanians, Bulgarians etc...........& we will have the same old problems etc, some good people, but some bad, with some playing the race card, & with the usual influx of bad criminal types which come over in the mix as well.  

 

The thing is we need what is talked about by government which is integration............when I lived in the USA I integrated, didn't like it came back home. Unfortunately A lot of immigrants do not want to fully integrate with the British society, so we have enclaves etc which causes more division & more hatred, & more misunderstanding!

 

Two personal experiences

 

1.  Old friend of my mums came over from St Lucia in the early 50's & is coloured. Studied hard, self taught had drive, married a white girl over here, so they had racism etc, had two kids which were half cast so they had fun in school as well!............(we were still bad in the 70's & 80's not as bad as USA). Ended up with kids in Oxford & Cambridge & top jobs due to drive etc Father ended up a barrister & had his own chambers. They as a family I have utter respect for & are as "British" as I can imagine, & have integrated into this society very well considering the racism they have faced.

 

2.  When I was at school in London we had about 1/2 non white, & most races etc. One of the girls in my class for the last two years (15/16yrs old) was from Pakistan descent, parents came over in the late 60's. Her father was strict & wanted her to do things the way back home, but she wanted to be as other "British" girls here. Father wanted her to have an already arranged marriage, were a head scarf etc. She did not do or want either of those things & kept having arguments with parents. After the last exams at school she left her home aged 16yrs to live away so she did not have to have an arranged marriage, & this was in 1990!

 

Two examples of people trying to integrate into "our" "British" society...........unfortunately we still have major problems with this & people twisting their own religions & beliefs for power, cause more division when at the heart of all the main faiths they all state we are all the same..............

 

EDIT..............

 

Oh I & would still prefer any hardworking, honest decent person, no matter the race, colour etc over some of our white indigenous scum which I have had the pleasure of meeting.............

 

I think the main problem with immigration is the proportion of good people to bad people.eg let in x% & y% will be scum/lazy/trouble.............it's sorting the wheat from the chaff............we have enough of our own scum/criminals with out letting in any more..............

Edited 19 April, 2015 by fabdavrav

[Jabozuma]

I thought I'd wade in here and then thought better of it - wasted 15 mins of my life reading " it is somebody else's fault"...

[Llanigraham]

Amazing amount of ignorance abounds on Central & Eastern Europeans. 

Lots of it on this forum as usual.

 

Sometimes i wonder if people might think.  'They all Look alike, so they are all the same'.

 

Plenty well Educated from Mainland Europe come to work in the UK, hard working, with higher education, Skills & Qualifications,

multi-lingual, and more tolerant than many bampots in the UK that live on Benefits and think the world owes them everything.

 

Exactly, but the racists aren't able, or don't want, to see that.

As has been shown on this forum.

[Supurbia]

I thought I'd wade in here and then thought better of it - wasted 15 mins of my life reading " it is somebody else's fault"...

 

 

Are you sure mate?

 

What I've read is most people debating their own personal experiences of the situation, now you either have no real reply, wanted to sit in the holy than thou position or cannot bring yourself to accept that some of what is written is actually true imo, it is only my opinion btw but I found your reply to be totally dismissive and if I'd felt the need to post that line I wouldn't have bothered to tbh, if it offended me that much I'd have just ignored the whole thread,

 

It would be nice if people would post their nationality at the same time, at least then we can get a perspective of point of view, might get to see things through anothers eyes that we miss through our own.

[Jabozuma]

Nationality: British.

@Supurbia - of course, you are right, who am I to be bursting your bubble? Enjoy your the world according to Supurpia, I am ecstatic I live in UK, not that dreary, xenophobic, narrow-minded, socially and economically myopic sad place you are living in. No wonder UK is in dire straights where some many people have absolutely no clue how the world works.

 

On that note I am going to start blaming Bolivians for all the bad things going on in the UK. Why? Why not, makes the same amount of sense as blaming immigrants lol

[Llanigraham]

Are you sure mate?

 

What I've read is most people debating their own personal experiences of the situation, now you either have no real reply, wanted to sit in the holy than thou position or cannot bring yourself to accept that some of what is written is actually true imo, it is only my opinion btw but I found your reply to be totally dismissive and if I'd felt the need to post that line I wouldn't have bothered to tbh, if it offended me that much I'd have just ignored the whole thread,

 

It would be nice if people would post their nationality at the same time, at least then we can get a perspective of point of view, might get to see things through anothers eyes that we miss through our own.

 

Oh dear!! 

This is a DISCUSSION forum, people DISCUSS things.

 

For your information one part of my family has been traced back to 2 sisters from the village of Rosebush in Pembrokeshire, one of whom was named in a report of the defeat of the last invasion by the French on the mainland of the UK in 1797. It appears she was a force to be reckoned with!! Other arms have been traced back to various areas of Wales and Somerset back to 1806. There are also some records of Jewish history before that and one arm possibly came from the Isle of Man.

Overall a Welsh Celt first and a European.