Do tyres harden with age?

[Sak]

My car is 1.4 Elegance on 18" Bridgestones. Ride was not bad until 11000 kms. After that it became gradually harsh. Now I can feel every crack on the road. Ride is so crashy and jarring. Asked my dealer to check the suspension. Everything is normal. I park my car under sun during work days. Do tyres harden with age / Heat? Does anyone else feel 18" bridgestones + Torsion beam rear unbearable? 

[moley]

Tyres will be affected by UV rays and probably will become harder or more 'brittle' with age, you often see cracks appearing in the bottom of the tread after a few years. Try swapping the wheels front to back to see if there is any difference. My last Mk2 Octavia had Bridgestones fitted and I found them to be harsh and noisy compared to the Continentals that were on my previous Mk2. I fitted Continentals as soon as the Bridgestones wore out and the ride was much better, unfortunately that was at around 50,000 miles (80,000 Km) (swapping front to rear after 22,000 miles).

My Mk3 has 17" Michelin's and they appear OK, the ride in the MK3 is firmer than the Mk2.

 

Living in the UK I don't understand the terms 'sun' and 'heat', please explain

[Sak]

Thanks Moley. Tyres have done only 13000 kms. I've rotated them last week. Can't feel any improvement in ride quality. Here in Queensland it averages 35 degrees in summer. It also reach 45 degrees some days . Lucky you

[moley]

Thanks Moley. Tyres have done only 13000 kms. I've rotated them last week. Can't feel any improvement in ride quality. Here in Queensland it averages 35 degrees in summer. It also reach 45 degrees some days . Lucky you

We had 24 degrees the other day.........12 in the morning and 12 in the afternoon. :p

[Gerrycan]

Yes they do harden but not to the extent and in such a short time as you are suggesting.

This may seem pretty obvious but have you checked your tyre pressure for over-inflation?

It is not unknown for the pressure gauge at the local petrol station to be way out. Most extreme case I have heard (advanced driving school story) was a Datsun 120Y that had inflated the tyres to 75 psi. Apparently the driver reported similar ride characteristics to yours.

Assuming that your independent check indicates they are between 33 to 38 psi and therefore ok then despite your dealers assurances there is something wrong. My guess would be the shock absorbers. I get the impression that the ones supplied to Skoda are not very high quality and either have problems from the get go or perhaps yours have deteriorated prematurely.

Being in Australia you get the opportunity to ride some dirt roads and the corrugations can drastically shorten the life of shock absorbers.

The dealer should be more helpful than they have

[philbes]

Tyres are affected by age and exposure to UV rays.  With my last car I had the same spare wheel under the floor of the boot for 7 years and it never aged/cracked. 

 

A friend has been a caravan owner for many years.  He never replaced tyres due to wear (caravan only used a couple of times each year for a few hundred miles) but due to degradation.  He now puts the caravan on stands and the wheels/tyres in the garage under a cover.

 

Some tyre companies insist that tyres should not be used beyond 5 years old.

[philbes]

Yes they do harden but not to the extent and in such a short time as you are suggesting.

This may seem pretty obvious but have you checked your tyre pressure for over-inflation?

It is not unknown for the pressure gauge at the local petrol station to be way out. Most extreme case I have heard (advanced driving school story) was a Datsun 120Y that had inflated the tyres to 75 psi. Apparently the driver reported similar ride characteristics to yours.

Assuming that your independent check indicates they are between 33 to 38 psi and therefore ok then despite your dealers assurances there is something wrong. My guess would be the shock absorbers. I get the impression that the ones supplied to Skoda are not very high quality and either have problems from the get go or perhaps yours have deteriorated prematurely.

Being in Australia you get the opportunity to ride some dirt roads and the corrugations can drastically shorten the life of shock absorbers.

The dealer should be more helpful than they have

I once had a new Cavalier SRi delivered to me with around 45psi in all four tyres instead of the correct 30psi.  The apprentice had inflated the tyres to 3.0 bar.   That was pretty bouncy with terrible cornering until I corrected the tyre pressures. 

[moley]

My dad was a mechanic and often 'new' cars had been standing in fields or compounds for long periods before being sold, so the tyres were a little uneven. He would over inflate the tyres and run the car for a few miles on the PDI to let the tyres regain their shape before setting the correct pressures. 

[hobbie2k]

Tyres will become brittle with age and exposure, but they won't become hard enough to affect ride. Most likely your pressures are off (recent service? inspection?) or there are suspension repairs needed.

[Sak]

Thanks All, I checked my tyre pressure at another Fuel station. Looks like the pressure gauge in my local fuel station is 3 PSI off. i.e. it was displaying 34 PSI when actual pressure is 31 PSI. Inflated the rears to 34 PSI. Ride is not bad as before. Any thing below 33 PSI makes the rear suspension very harsh. Is this normal?

[kallekilponen]

Thanks All, I checked my tyre pressure at another Fuel station. Looks like the pressure gauge in my local fuel station is 3 PSI off. i.e. it was displaying 34 PSI when actual pressure is 31 PSI. Inflated the rears to 34 PSI. Ride is not bad as before. Any thing below 33 PSI makes the rear suspension very harsh. Is this normal?

This is why I always carry a digital tire pressure gauge with me. I never trust the petrol station gauges to be accurate.

[Gerrycan]

Thanks All, I checked my tyre pressure at another Fuel station. Looks like the pressure gauge in my local fuel station is 3 PSI off. i.e. it was displaying 34 PSI when actual pressure is 31 PSI. Inflated the rears to 34 PSI. Ride is not bad as before. Any thing below 33 PSI makes the rear suspension very harsh. Is this normal?

Unusual for under inflated tyres to give a harsh ride unless you were bouncing off the rims.

With 18's you might find you benefit from even more pressure.

Also I would follow kallekilponen's advice and get your own good quality tyre gauge.

See if you can get a ride in an another for comparison purposes.

[mcmaddy]

Tyres will become brittle with age and exposure, but they won't become hard enough to affect ride. Most likely your pressures are off (recent service? inspection?) or there are suspension repairs needed.

Yes they do and have. Hard old tyres on my tiguan ruined the ride and steering characteristics and the tyres had 5mm of tread left on them. VW won't sell a used car with tyres older than 3 years on due to this hardening effect.

[Gerrycan]

Yes they do and have. Hard old tyres on my tiguan ruined the ride and steering characteristics and the tyres had 5mm of tread left on them. VW won't sell a used car with tyres older than 3 years on due to this hardening effect.

The Mk3 has only been available in Australia for less than a year. I cannot see them hardening in that short a time.

SAK should look at the tyres to see when manufactured to eliminate that possibility but I think it unlikely.

Complaints about harsh suspension on the Mk3 Octavia are more common than they should be.

Skoda are in denial about it but people with the issue who have changed the shocks themselves have had instant improvements.

There are whole threads on this aspect

In this case SAK was originally happy with his ride but it has deteriorated drastically during his ownership, the dealer says the suspension is ok but patently it is not. It should be covered by the warranty.

I still say he should get a ride in a comparable new Octavia to confirm his suspicions about the deterioration though.

The dealer should provide one but maybe GTR27 is close enough to assist?

Edited 6 April, 2015 by Gerrycan

[Sak]

Thanks Gerrycan, I'll talk to my dealer about testing another car with same configuration. As I said above 34 Psi does seems to improve ride quality. Still it is harsh compared to the other cars I owned. May be I am spoiled by the ride of my previous Maxima  

[RickTT]

There can be a differance in ride quality comparing a new tyre to a worn tyre, I find on my BMW E60 the ride quality decreases at around 4.5mm depending on tyre choice and therefore I change at around 3.5mm min.

 

Whats the tread depth ?

[Sak]

Treads seems good. Fronts on 5 mm and the rears on 5.5 mm 

[Gerrycan]

May be I am spoiled by the ride of my previous Maxima

Quite possibly, I believe the Maxima is supposed to be very 'comfortable'

I remember another member found his Octavia's ride almost unbearable, his other car was a 20 y.o. Citroen Xantia (pneumatic suspension) so comparisons were pretty unfair.

I still think it was his individual Octavia at fault because you would think he would have run away (far and fast) when test driving.

I have driven mine on corrugated dirt roads and while the ride is not as good as my previous Mk2 (multi-link rear and 15 inch wheels) it is still better than both my previous Hyundai SUVs imo.

Way back in my youth I had the misfortune to be driven around in Rolls Royces and Jaguars which is great unless they make you car sick. Plush is not my thing.

I don't know quite how VAG manage to engineer in that mixture of firm but compliant ride, but I like it.

Don't forget your ride was good but has deteriorated.

'Matt Pez' is due to fit uprated units on his car on the 20th of April. A lot of people will be waiting on his results.

Edited 8 April, 2015 by Gerrycan

[billybskoda]

Besides the shiny, shiny look, one of the other advantages to using tyre shine is that it helps prevent uv damage to tyre walls... not that my fronts last long enough to age...

Edited 8 April, 2015 by billybskoda

[brenno_au]

I remember another member found his Octavia's ride almost unbearable, his other car was a 20 y.o. Citroen Xantia (pneumatic suspension) so comparisons were pretty unfair.

I still think it was his individual Octavia at fault because you would think he would have run away (far and fast) when test driving.

I have driven mine on corrugated dirt roads and while the ride is not as good as my previous Mk2 (multi-link rear and 15 inch wheels) it is still better than both my previous Hyundai SUVs imo.

 

That would be me I agree a comparison with a Xantia would obviously not favour the Octavia, but that is not the basis for my criticism towards the ride in the Skoda. I've also owned cars with a notoriously bad ride (Suzuki Sierra!), and worked in the automotive industry driving many many makes and models. 

 

I find it hard to believe any manufacturer could offer for sale a mid-sized, garden-variety car that could be considered uncomfortable to drive, but Skoda has managed to do it.

 

Perhaps I should have test driven one before buying. This was not an option in Australia - no cars were available to test drive.

 

Funnily enough I took the Octavia out on some known bad roads on the weekends. On bad, corrugated and poorly maintained roads, it is rather good. The bad ride only really presents itself on well maintained roads/motorways (the majority of my driving) where the vertical pitching from the rear is quite tiring.

 

There is a section of road nearby where this pitching is pronounced. In all other cars I have been in recently over this same stretch of road, among them the Octavia's cousin - a Mk7 Golf 1.4 TSI, a current Camry, XTrail, Passat there is no such pitching. The road can't even be felt. 

 

I'm yet to work out whether to import Volkswagen dampers, experiment with Bilstein/Koni, try some 15" rims, or get rid of it. Or just deal with it. We're quite happy with the car otherwise.

[Gerrycan]

I never doubted your Octavia's suspension was causing you grief but you have lost me with the 'vertical pitching' description as I have never encountered anything remotely similar on mine which is a comfortable long distance cruiser.

'Hobbie2k' and 'GTR27' in Aus seem relatively happy with theirs and they seem more experienced than your average tyre kicker (me), In any case SWMBO would tell me if I was wrong.

A pity you are so far from the dealer and with Skoda's general rarity you probably have the only one in your area for any comparison.

I would not recommend the 15 inch tyres only because they are unusually expensive to replace in Aus.

Apparently you can get 16 inch rims and tyres cheap from VW and Audi owners who have upgraded and cannot give them away.

I know the 16 inch steel rims/tyres save 4.5kg a corner over 17 inch alloy/tyre when I weighed my spare and fitted rims.

I feel for you, being unhappy with new car is not good. Been there, done that and got the t-shirt (yes, I did have a test drive, but not long enough).

Edited 9 April, 2015 by Gerrycan

[Ootohere]

As to the OP.

You know where the car is parked exposed to the sun, ambient temperatures when you set tyre pressures at,

how a car might run on 18" rims / tyres,  there are cars all around you and drivers in the same circumstances.

 

What is maybe different as you reached 110,000 kms is your suspension.

Dampers / Springs now tired & hardened, or even goosed already.

[Gerrycan]

11,000 Kim not 110,000 km.

Might want to change statement lol

[V6Jules]

At 11000km I wouldn't have thought anything should be worn enough to give you issues nor should the tyres be old enough to have hardened due to age... This doesnt mean something isn't faulty though

[Ootohere]

Skoda also thought this about cars in Australia. But then they often think things and get it wrong in other World Regions. It is a VWG sort of thing.