Fabia VRS - Petrol grade for business mileage

[xman]

Are you sure the Sainsbury Super Unleaded 97 RON is Expensive, it is usually the same price as Shell , BP or Esso 95 RON Unleaded

8p/litre more, round here all 95ron are same price to within a penny.

The issue is sainsburys 97ron is not 98 and therefore of no use. I dont have a vrs but its never made a jot of difference in our other cars which are mainly 1.2tsi at the moment.

Another issue is they hardly sell any (attendants words) and so can be old fuel. I believe high RON fuels lose their octance rating relatively rapidly. A lot of octance boosters (I mentioned MMT earlier) age rapidly and are temperature and photosensitive. MMT is extremely photosensitive and decomposes rapidly when exposed.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by xman

[Ootohere]

What do you mean of no use,  it is the UK Super Unleaded, it is 97 RON Minimum.   

That is a higher octane than 95 Minimum.

BP & Esso Super Unleaded are 97 Minimum in the UK.

 

So not the same as Tesco Momentum 99 or Shell V-Power Nitro,  but until shell added 'Nitro' to the name, Shell V-Power was 97 Ron.

 

It certainly is worth paying the Extra to run the 97 ron in a Twincharger given the fact there are no Retailers selling

98 ron in the UK.

 

Maybe not in a 1.2 TSI but then you need to decide that yourself.

http://www.tescopfs.com/our-fuel/testing_results

 

 

PS.   If the Fuel we buy and pay Duty & Tax are not what they should be because 'They Went Off and lost the Octane 

so do not provide the Energy they should'  we are being Defrauded. That would be criminal.

 

Any links to UK Filling Station Fuels losing Octane through the time in Filling Station Tanks?

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[xman]

Vag require 98Ron to trigger the alternative map.

[Ootohere]

No they do not.  Maybe best go check out where you get your info.

 

 i run a APR Map that is switchable,  and have used different fuels, with Standard & Remapped ECU's, 

using 95, 97, 99, 100 & 102 Ron.

 

All the Fuel Producers / Wholesalers & Retailers should clearly show the Fuels Specs

http://www.tescopfs.com/our-fuel/specifications

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Ootohere]

Since these were made, BP Super is 97 Ron Minimum now, Esso Super is 97 Ron,

Shell V-Power Nitro is 99 Ron Minimum.

That is as sold in the UK, not always in other parts of Europe or World Regions.

 

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[wja96]

The issue is not that the car will run on 95 ron, or making 180 ps Minimum which in the UK they will,

Because we are not exactly at Altitude or having Extremes or Weather

As I understand it, the engine only makes the quoted power with 98RON fuel. With 95RON the ignition timing is adjusted and the power drops, but that doesn't happen immediately, it takes about 700 miles to adjust fully and during that time some rough running is to be expected while the ECU figures out what is going on.

It is the experience of Some Drivers using 95 RON with 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kw 2009-2014 & Rough Idle and start up,

& the shortened life of the Spark Plugs.

 

But as said in posts the car will run on 95 ron, because all EU Type Approved Engines need to.

Nobody said sadly they had to run very well.

I suspect they will run just fine so long as you let the engine adjust. But people use their cars so little that they don't give them time to adjust (700 miles could be a month's driving fo some users) and start running around posting that their car isn't "right". Which it isn't because it's trying to adjust itself to the poorer fuel you have just given it.

[Ootohere]

If you understand the Official Performance figures in a Audi, VW Skoda or Seat Brochure, Owners Manual & Media packs are based on the use of Super 98 Octane fuel please show where?

(Also show where the Co2 testing & the figures given for emissions which gives the VED class comes by using some fuel other than 95 Octane petrol in petrol engines.)

 

Certainly not in the Brochure for the Fabia vRS, Polo GTI, Seat Ibiza Cupra, Audi A1 185 with the Twincharger Engines.

 

The 'Minimum Performance Figures as Published be the Volkswagen Group are based on use World Wide as a Minimum & at different Altitudes & Temperatures 'As i Understand it',

& commonly but maybe wrongly it has often been said by Motoring Journalists, they will make more than the Performance Figures 

published when in the UK.

Near to Sea Level, Air Quality etc.

 

In the US you will note the Audi S3 etc , VW Golf R, Ford Fiesta ST,  MINI Cooper S etc with less Official Performance Figures from the European Models because of the Fuel available in the US,  ie, not given based on using 95 ron..

 

The subject really is the 1.4 TSI Twinchargers and how UK Fuels have affected some as experienced by Members Here.

& there have been a fair Number on Dynos.

 

PS,

As to the Fuel change taking 700 miles.  that is just nonesense.

I run my tank to 40 Mile Range or Less, 

Put in my 40 Litres of 102 ron, (Hyperflo 250) run it to near empty while playing

& put in my 10 litres of 99 ron from a can until i get filled up at Tesco,  first change over and second, obvious in 10 miles or less.

1 or 2 times a month for a couple of years now.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Richf]

Thats strange as fuels in the US tend to be of better quality than over here , are we comparing like for like as not all power is expressed in the same units

[Ootohere]

http://economist.com/blogs/babbage/2012/09/octane-ratings

 

Sorry, no idea what went wrong with the link, it worked at first.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Richf]

Not sure that link is correct so no idea what you are trying to show me

 

People often think the fuel in the US is worse due to lower ratings on the pump but the US uses MON (Motor Octane Numer) and we use RON (Research Octane number) the two are for argument sake about 8-12 points different

 

The lowest grade regular gas is about 95 Ron rising to over 100ron for some premium fuels and lets not even mention the ease of availability for E85

 

More info here

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

Edited 16 April, 2015 by Richf

[wja96]

If you check page 25 of the last Skoda Fabia brochure it has a superscript cross mark that when you check the reference says "use of lower octane fuel may affect performance". Why would they put that in if it didn't?

The Wikipedia page for the 1.4TSi Twincharger also states that the 180PS is only with 98RON fuel. 95RON will reduce performance.

If you think about it, if the different grades of fuel didn't affect performance why would you need a switchable map?

[Ootohere]

Does it say there in that Latest Fabia Brochure that the Prescribed fuel is 98 Super.?   Which is the point.

Is there any mention of 98 Super Petrol in the Brochure?

Where they say the Prescribed Min in 95 Ron, they say a lower octane will result is less performance.

 

Obviously they increase performance, why would i pay double for the 102 ron in the UK unless it did.

The cars are sold on the basis of the 95 Ron being used.

Super 98 is the Recommended Fuel for a Twincharger, but you only know that once you read a Owners Manual 

or open the Filler Flap.

It is not in the Skoda Brochure, or on the Wall of the Showroom, beside the MPG / co2 Framed Sheet.

or does it pass the salesmans lips.

 

 

Richf,

I am not showing anything,

as you know the United States are a big place, with different Emission Laws, fuels 

and also people that will take a Corporation to Court if they Claim a Car has a Minimum Power or Economy 

& do not state which fuel needs used to get that Power / HP / PS.

So they go low.

 

This thread was about a Twincharger, in the UK on UK Fuel.

The cars sold here are sold showing the figures like 

Max Performance PS / rpm,  180 / 6,200

Max Torque (Nm / rpm )  250 / 2,000 - 4,500

 

Volkswagen group do not say,

Not achieved when using regular 95 Ron Pump Fuel, Super 98 is required.

 

There are figures now for they latest launched VWG vehicles, no mention of the need to use Super Unleaded to get 

the Performance they are showing for the car you are buying.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[faradaycage]

There's a very interesting article on www.groups.tr-register.co.uk/wessex/ethanol ,concerning what the ever increasing levels of Ethanol in U.K and the Eurozone fuel are doing to car engine internals and other ancillary vehicle components.Especially in vehicles with older style engine sets ups.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by faradaycage

[Ootohere]

For wja96

Have a look at the  Skoda Owners Manual from 2010,

which someone in the UK would get when buying a Mk2 vRS Fabia in 2010.

 

Page 162- 163

You will notice after the stuff about Prescribed Fuel & Higher or lower octane use,

last bit page 163

'The correct grade of fuel for your vehicle are stated on a sticker affixed to the inside of the fuel flap, 

further information on fuel , page 162'

 

Well anyone that knew about the correct fuel for the car already was OK,

and many never knew,

But that is what happens when things are not Communicated or Lost in Translation,

& the Translation to English in the Polo, Skoda & Seat Owners manuals through up plenty of Lost in Translaton.

 

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The OP started this thread because he knows about the car he drives and the Fuel he likes,

the rest here know which fuel is recommended and works best,

so the only ones that are not sure but read something about the cars & fuel in Wikipedia seem to not 

drive the car being spoken about.

 

Business use, driving economically in a '180ps Minimum' car, 

not even sitting at 2,400 rpm, not using half the available to him,

Standard Fueling (engine Management ) has it running lean, no Supercharger only on demand,

So just wants the Spark Plugs to last, and no Bore Wash, Valves Burning etc.

Which 99 Ron helps with.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[wja96]

The truth is Goneoffski that you have zero evidence to back up what you are saying and I have two documents (one from Skoda) that says the octane rating affects performance. And the fact that you run a different map for different octanes would also suggest there is a performance difference.

The fact is that it does make a difference and the car adjusts. And it adjusts gradually so it runs rough until it gets itself sorted out. Once it's running 95RON it will almost certainly be fine after 700 miles/1000km.

And that IS what the OP was asking about.

[Ootohere]

I do not know what you think i am saying.     What is it you think i am saying this time?

We know about Octanes, i know about Octane,  i cover enough miles in the car we are talking about,

and work on enough of them.

 

We know the Twincharger should be run on Super Unleaded, but like all cars need to be able to run on 95 ron.

But these have had issues when running on 95 ron.

 

& VWG never made clear to buyers about running on Super.

Members here know about it.

 

As to running rough,  you really need to go and just keep reading on,

maybe even drive some, because you are talking sharn.

Those with the bad Parts and Map run like crap sometimes, plenty can run OK on 95 ron.

Well for a while, until the common issues arise.

 

http://revotechnik.com/support/technichal/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues

[wja96]

Just back up ANY of what you are saying. Produce the 80/1269/EC form II that shows it was tested on 98 or 95 RON perhaps?

You can't have it both ways. You originally said that the engine lost no power or performance with 95RON and now you are saying that VAG didn't come clean to owners that it has to be run on 98RON because otherwise bad stuff happens?

Which one is it?

Isn't the truth that you, and a couple of other Skoda-haters just twist anything so it fits your anti-Skoda agenda? And that actually the OP can run his car just fine on 95RON fuel and that if it runs rough for a few starts it will soon adjust itself and run smooth again?

[Ootohere]

Where did i say that, about not losing performance using 95ron in a Twincharger,

can you point me to that?

The Twincharger achieves the Official Performance on 95 ron, but can be a sick beast.

not just rough starting. & if you try some you might know what the issues can be.

 

I have asked you to show where you got the beleif that the 180ps figure came only while using Super 98,

and i have said often enough that there is no mention anyplace in the Official Performance figures or documentation that the Petrol cars Performance is achieved using Super Unleaded, because as we know that have had them on a Dyno 

the Figures running 95 Match the Official figures, and the 99 ron gives improved HP & Torque.

 

You are talking pure nonesense.

We can talk about Performance and Efficiency, all day long,  but the OP was concerned about his engines longevity,

and the risk with running 95 ron with the OEM Plugs and Map is the short life of the plugs,

and them not doing anything like the VW Service Schedule Mileage.

 

The trouble is that those experience the cars and are fans know what VW have tried to get away with,

& Fan Boys like you need to get to know the cars rather than reading the stories.

I have no problem with you other than i thought you knew about the cars, i actually thought you worked on them.

 

.........................

Still on the VW Site, and it does not say if no longer applies with the MK7's.

Maybe someone knows where Skoda or Seat have the same information online for owners 

of cars with the same engines.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/Fuel

Or even for the Polo GTI, Skoda vrs,  Seat or Audi 180-185 ps Twinchargers.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[Richf]

If the car can achieve its stated performance on 95 then there would be no benefit to running on 98

Having driven one on 95 and then 98 back to back I could feel a difference in performance

[Ootohere]

It can in the UK at near sea level in our Temperatures achieve the given figure of 180ps, 

as can easily be checked.

 

But that figure is used World Wide for countries at all altitudes, just as the 170ps is with the CAVD engine and even in countries with no Super 98 available, like the Member on here the other day with a Jetta Twincharhger.

 

So yes the Recommended fuel does have a more efficient running engine.  

More efficient than the given Minimum Scores on the Doors which are the Published Figures.

 

Was the one you drove on 95 ron not giving the performance as published by Skoda / VW / Seat for the 

1.4 TSI CAVE / CTHE 132 kw engine.

& the one on 98 ron exceeding it.

(was it actually 98 ron or 99 ron that was in the tank?)

 

The CTHE gives more power than the CAVE did, on 95 or 98, well 99 ron, 

but Skoda never changed the PS or Torque figures in 2013 when the Engine & Engine Management changed, or Seat, but Seat reduced the Top Speed & Acceleration Figures & Emission Figures, dropping them a Class for the VED and showed improved economy,

while not making the car lighter.

 

http://autocar.co.uk/car-review/seat/ibiza-cupra/first-drives/seat-ibiza-cupra-first-drive-review

Auto Car & the other Magazines really should say these Performance figures require using Super Unleaded 

if that is how the Performance is achieved, and the Dealers should put Super Unleaded in the cars 

when supplying the Fuel at handover, and putting 3,000 - 4,000 on them as Demonstrators.

.......................................

Odd that the Revised Engine / Engine Management went in the Skoda & VW Polo GTI 3-4 months before in the Seat

but no mention was made of Improvements on them,,  But then the VW already had lower Emissions, 

and was being given the wrong Kerb Weight which they later corrected,

& some of the First CTHE vRS were still having issues that required sorting out before the New 2013 Cupra could go on sale.

Edited 16 April, 2015 by goneoffSKi

[lol-lol]

I gather the using of the lower octane fuel has more of an affect on fuel consumption than power put after a while running the lower octane fuel will affect the power to due to the later ignition point in the combustion cycle.

 

As the knock sensor retards the ignition point the thermodynamic effciency of the engine changing the chemical power of the fuel to rotational energy of the crankshaft wiill change.

 

If you pootle around you can get away with 95 Octane and get similar fuel consumption and power to a Fab 2 VRS on 98/99 Octane.

 

If you floor it repeatly then after a mile or so the car running 95 Octane will start using more fuel and produces less power and the ignition point starts to be retarded from optimum to give best thermodynamic efficency.

 

Older Audi TTs, Golf Rs etc just the same.

 

lol

BSc Hons (2-1) with Thermodynamic 2nd year module completed, just for fun (amazed HMRC paid for that).

[Richf]

One was an 2011 and the other a 2012 both Caves , the 2011 had had about 3 tankfuls of 95 , neither car was ever dyno'ed. Up to about 4000rpm there is a little difference but there is after that it becomes more obvious , running on 95 made the top end feel positively flat

Edited 16 April, 2015 by Richf

[Ootohere]

What are you going to be putting in your new Skoda, and does the Nissan get the good stuff?

[Richf]

I have always used 99 in my cars only ever Shell or Tesco

[leobella]

I'm learning alot about my car reading these posts.