Vrs upgrade to 230bhp with stock clutch and intercooler

[DannHall]

I'm hoping someone can clarify this for me, on Facebook a group called ##!!##h claim they are working on a turbo that upgrades a standard 1.9tdi to 230bhp with it having all standard parts as on clutch and intercooler...... Is this possible, I'm thinking maybe they are limiting the torque? But I don't know enough to understand this fully!

If this is possible I'm definitely interested buy was wanting to get a remap done at hidden power :-/

[Wardy]

I would certainly want to see a printout of an RR run with that turbo and adjusted mapping!

 

My feeling is that it might hit 230bhp once, and the rest of the map would be quite 'compromised' with regards driveability.

[SKYHAWK]

same company that mapped mine really know their stuff pm me for more info about company

[mattbvRS]

I can smell something...

 

Besides peak bhp figures really do mean nothing especially on a diesel! 

 

It's all about the power curve and how it delivers power across the revs which is more important in terms of drive ability. 

[SKYHAWK]

like this power curve you mean??

 

 

 

same company as hes talking about above good aftercare aswell!

[Wardy]

What company is it, and what turbo's being used?

[Wardy]

like this power curve you mean??

 

 

Not really what I'd be after in terms of torque delivery, but depends what you're after. That curve looks to be below stock torque levels until 2750RPM. Then quite a short rev range of peak torque.

[vRS Joe]

A stock intercooler with 230hp is not going to work! Okay it will for say an overtaking manoeuvre but it you drive fast for more that a few seconds you'll notice the power drop off significantly due to heat soak.

As for a stock clutch taking that power, some do, some don't. There are a few, including me that run in excess of that through the stock clutch and DMF.

[mattbvRS]

For me I'd like the torque to peak a bit sooner and hold for longer over the rev range, even if that means lower overall power figure.

 

That's the problem with adding larger turbos to these, it's a compromise in the lower revs in terms of power delivery. No doubt it'll be quick once it gets going but below 2.5k it looks fairly flat to me. The standard turbo starts to come on song from about 1.5k so you have access to more usable power across the revs if that makes sense?

[DarksideDevelopments]

Peak Torque on that Graph is about 1000rpm too late.

Stock vRS clutch will take around 300ft/lbs but will cling on for dear life well above that if the torque comes in

late (ie big turbocharger)

Stock SMIC is no good above 160-170bhp, have seen 100+ inlet air temps on mildly tuned cars.

[Guest BigJase88]

With a simple remap to 170bhp it was relatively easy to heat soak the stock intercooler when pressing on a hot day

230bhp will be acheivable for all of 0.05 seconds until the intercooler is heat soaked to the max

[DannHall]

Thanks very much for your input guys! I'm assuming based on reading all of your comments that it is possible just it will still be restricted in performance and is therefore not really worth doing. And if a bigger turbo is to be put in, upgrade the clutch and intercooler.......it is just the clutch is so expensive!

[vindaloo]

In some ways I would say it depends on the platform... The MK4 platform might offer a bit more than a space-constricted Fabia/Ibiza/Polo.

 

Would ahve to agree about the SMIC though.... Although.... If you are prepared to accept "clagging" levels of smoke you may well achieve and maintain the headline numbers.

 

OK, I give up!!!! Stoopid youtube can't find the hella=smoke vids I recall viewing only last year.

 

 

I do love the weird way these trains sound though. It gives them a unique identity.

[Lofty]

The standard side mount intercooler will be as much use as Anne Franks drum kit at the required amount of boost pressure to achieve 230bhp.

 

3 laps of Donington on a cold spring day was enough to heatsoak mine into limp mode at 180bhp on the standard cooler

[PastyBoy]

... Is this possible?...

 

no

[Skoda_Saint]

Not discounting oil temperature either which after a lap or two mine hit 130... so oil cooler was ordered. I also use a SMF which now takes the power my old Sachs DMF and clutch wasn't up to 230 so I doubt standard will last at all.

[silky16v]

I'd want to see a graph more like below on a GTB2260 with race nozzles, admittedly the mapping was never finished on the Polo but you can see the bhp comes in sooner and holds on for a wider spread of rpm

 

 

 

The Fabia on GTB2260 on stock nozzles the power and torque peaks and then dies off, EGT's were silly high

 

Back to Back the polo would've torn the Fabia to bits on the road!!!

 

 

SteveoPC if that graph is correct? your car will have around 500rpm of usable peak power from 4000rpm - 4500rpm??????

[Wardy]

That's better! You ideally want to see a torque curve like Table Mountain.....

 

i.e upto 'safe' peak torque and holding.

[SKYHAWK]

 

I'd want to see a graph more like below on a GTB2260 with race nozzles, admittedly the mapping was never finished on the Polo but you can see the bhp comes in sooner and holds on for a wider spread of rpm

 

 

 

 

The Fabia on GTB2260 on stock nozzles the power and torque peaks and then dies off, EGT's were silly high

 

 

Back to Back the polo would've torn the Fabia to bits on the road!!!

 

 

SteveoPC if that graph is correct? your car will have around 500rpm of usable peak power from 4000rpm - 4500rpm??????

 

but 35bhp less that's a lot on same setup

[mattbvRS]

The power is sustained over a wider rev range, so I'd go out on a limb and say even though it's 35bhp less (peak) it would be similarly as quick and would also be easier to drive quickly as the power is more progressive. 

 

35bhp isn't really that much in fairness so power delivery will play a big part in how fast the car is on the road, look at the torque curve differences between the two graphs in particular! Both setups make a similar torque figure give or take 20lbft so the way it's delivered is equally important to the figure when it's that close. 

 

That second graph almost reminds me of a Honda VTEC engine in the way it delivers power. It'll be quick once you get it up there, but keeping it up there and having a relatively narrow power band will be challenging given that it's not geared for that sort of power delivery. 

 

I wonder why there is such a difference between them given they are on a similar set-up? Will it be down to the injectors and mapping perhaps?

[andypandypoos]

The power is sustained over a wider rev range, so I'd go out on a limb and say even though it's 35bhp less (peak) it would be similarly as quick and would also be easier to drive quickly as the power is more progressive. 

 

35bhp isn't really that much in fairness so power delivery will play a big part in how fast the car is on the road, look at the torque curve differences between the two graphs in particular! Both setups make a similar torque figure give or take 20lbft so the way it's delivered is equally important to the figure when it's that close. 

 

That second graph almost reminds me of a Honda VTEC engine in the way it delivers power. It'll be quick once you get it up there, but keeping it up there and having a relatively narrow power band will be challenging given that it's not geared for that sort of power delivery. 

 

I wonder why there is such a difference between them given they are on a similar set-up? Will it be down to the injectors and mapping perhaps?

 

nothing wrong with vtec

[ste372]

It maybe 35bhp less but it holds peak power quicker and for longer.

[Richard-vrs]

To keep torque down, they would have to bring in power later on in rev range meaning by time you get there you wont be able to use much of it.

Side mount is biggest limiter as people have already mentioned, I am close to 200hp with my map and have standard side mount if i keep my foot flat for any long periods intake temps climb pretty quick to 80 degree. So full power for me is really for overtaking wouldnt even dream of a track day without upgrading to fmic.

[silky16v]

but 35bhp less that's a lot on same setup

 

 

16BHP less (260 - 244 = 16) unless your are comparing to you bhp figure?

 

The polo was on the DSSR injectors and the Fabia when that Graph was done was on Stock Injectors, so not really a fair comparison but 100% the polo was a quicker car

 

The polo mapping was never completed so never got a final figure

 

but your graph you should be making power sooner and for a longer rpm range, you have a very narrow peak power band and then it starts to die away

[faboka vrs]

My 2p

Different dyno's, different loads, different gears = different results

The last gtb2260 with firad 80's made peak torque at 2750 rpm and 263bhp at 4300 rpm. EGT around 900c.

Might have results from dssr 130 soon. Starts perfect as well