Wonky EGR

[cliffschooling]

My wife has a Fabia 1.6 Tdi 60 plate wi 45k on the clock and the engine management warning has come on. My local mechanic cleaned the EGR and reset the faults (all the faults refered to the EGR), car ran OK for a wee while then went into limp mode again. What I found was once the engine was warm if I gave it a good thrash it would run ok.

Now the question I want to ask having trawled through the subject is, OK I might get a good will replacement from my local Skoda dealer, but is the damn thing going to go on the bum in another 45k.

Am I better biting the bullet and get the ECU remapped to do away with the damn thing? I'd rather spend the dosh on a remap if its going to give me more long term reliability

Edited 2 August, 2015 by cliffschooling

[jonro2009]

I'm not in a position to answer the question of longevity of a replacement EGR sorry.

If an ECU remap is something you are considering then I would be tempted to tell you to go for it. You should get a gain in performance and fuel consumption and in the longer term wipe out the the need to worry about the EGR, if the remap allows you to do away with it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jme808]

What kind of driving does the car get?  Long journeys or in town?  EGRs do need to be driven to keep clean or they can build up gunk which kills them.

[Baxlin]

Mrs Baxlin's 1.6 Diesel Fabia, also on about 45,000 miles showed a warning light, (can't describe it as I didn't see it) but she knew enough from my experience with other family diesels to take it on the bypass and drive it like she stole it for ten miles or so. OK, probably not cured it totally, but a good blast occasionally seems so far to have kept it at bay.

FWIW, I bypassed the EGR completely on my Rover 75 diesel, a forum member manufactured a fitting that blanked off various pipes, with a straight through pipe in place of the actual valve. This was on the BMW M47 engine, things may have got a bit more sophisticated since then, so it may not be possible now.

Malcolm

[GeneralPurpose]

cliff, egr's normally last ok on these but as the guys are saying you have to really use the performance now and again to keep them clean. How you drive it is largely responsible for how long the egr remains trouble free. Modern diesels are more dependant on the egr for emission control than engines of the past. The 1.6TDI needs to rev regularly, and not just be plonked about otherwise the egr will get buggered. The whole emissions system is dependant on the egr. If you remove it and remap you may or may not have success in keeping the emissions down. Our local hotshot boy racer (my neighbour) had his Fabia (with egr removed and remapped) fail it's mot on emissions. He's having to replace it. The problem comes on the smoke test when they row the engine on the throttle. It smoked repeatedly and couldn't get through even though it had just 50k on the clock and had be driven well fast before arriving at the mot station. There are no guarantees it will pass if you go that route and of course, with the new legislation on the horizon, you'd only have to put it back and retune the engine anyway to get it through the test. Don't forget, it's there to protect us all against the crap that comes out of diesels.

[cliffschooling]

The problem is it main life is spend driving on twisty Scottish country roads, my wifes work is 40 miles away and I'd be surprised if the engine got really hot in winter by the time she got there.

Thrashing the nuts off it does seem to help, but the minute teh engine cools down, on comes the coil light and the take to a workshop or yer gonna die message comes up.

Is it worth getting some of the cleaning gunk ye skoosh into the intake and shove in the fuel?

Beginning to go off diesels :-(

[GeneralPurpose]

Indeed cliff. Petrol engines are fast becoming superior in power, torque and mpg's. And they are cleaner than diesel. Good example is the car my bro in law has just bought. He has the 2.0ltr petrol Mazda 3. It is Golf size. It does not have a turbo and only puts out 122ps but has high torque and very very good mpg at 66mpg for combined fig and 49mpg or thereabouts on the urban run. Acceleration is 8.9 on the 0-62mph dash. Not bad! Diesels are not for everyone now. They are becoming much more finnicky about how they are driven and how they are used ie: short or long trips, town running etc.

[jme808]

Is it worth getting some of the cleaning gunk ye skoosh into the intake and shove in the fuel?

 

 

I wouldn't do that personally, have rarely heard it's helped anything.  Mostly it seems to do nothing or cause more problems.  If I'd kept mine I would have tried to find a indie garage (VW group specialist) to replace with a decent quality part.

[gigglepin]

1.6 CR TDI EGR Valve failures are an epidemic across all VAG brands.

 

Around 40,000 Miles is a common failure point mileage wise.

 

I change more EGR valves on the CAY range of 1.6 engines than I do air & fuel filters.

 

Try for good will from the dealer or Skoda UK if the dealer shows no interest.

 

More often than not there is a software update on the 1.6 to go with a new EGR valve, this changes the operating temperature range in an attempt to prevent a build up of varnishing inside the valve.

 

VAG are on their 3rd revision of this valve now to try & resolve the problems it is causing.

 

The EGR valve doesn't just fail for varnishing issues, the whole design is troublesome with roll pins falling out, motor gearing stripping, potentiometer failure etc.

 

Aftermarket valves are worse than the dealer supplied ones, so genuine appears to be the best option.

 

Hold in mind that if the EGR system is not operating within its design parameters, excess soot can be generated in the exhaust system.

This soot is carried into the DPF & in some cases dramatically shortens the life of the particulate filter.

 

From experience, once the system starts to fault no amount of cleaning or "thrashing" provides a long term repair.

 

hth.

Edited 4 August, 2015 by gigglepin

[djj777]

1.6 CR TDI EGR Valve failures are an epidemic across all VAG brands.

 

Around 40,000 Miles is a common failure point mileage wise.

 

I change more EGR valves on the CAY range of 1.6 engines than I do air & fuel filters.

 

Try for good will from the dealer or Skoda UK if the dealer shows no interest.

 

More often than not there is a software update on the 1.6 to go with a new EGR valve, this changes the operating temperature range in an attempt to prevent a build up of varnishing inside the valve.

 

VAG are on their 3rd revision of this valve now to try & resolve the problems it is causing.

 

The EGR valve doesn't just fail for varnishing issues, the whole design is troublesome with roll pins falling out, motor gearing stripping, potentiometer failure etc.

 

Aftermarket valves are worse than the dealer supplied ones, so genuine appears to be the best option.

 

Hold in mind that if the EGR system is not operating within its design parameters, excess soot can be generated in the exhaust system.

This soot is carried into the DPF & in some cases dramatically shortens the life of the particulate filter.

 

From experience, once the system starts to fault no amount of cleaning or "thrashing" provides a long term repair.

 

hth.

 

I have just had mine replaced at 65,000 miles.  I've had the car from new and do plenty of motorway miles and regularly give it a blast on the advice of Estate Man when I first bought it.  The car is 8 months out of warranty but my main dealer, Alex Lawrie in Liverpool, spoke with Skoda and they offered a contribution of 100% to the part and 50% to labour.  The original quote for the work was £980 but the contribution meant I only paid £236 towards the bill.  I certainly wasn't going to argue with that having read the potential secondary issues it can cause. This was on the basis that I have a full Skoda service history though.  It also included the software update.  

[GeneralPurpose]

That's good information gigglepin. 

 

Generally I've found the egr's tend to be ok if the car does a lot of hot driving without too much plonking. But it sounds as if their is a fundamental fault with some egr valves that is the main issue now. Lets hope they get it fixed.

[cliffschooling]

well, gaily tundled into the Skoda dealer in Dundee yesterday and its the cooler thats buggered on the valve...that'll be 78 quid thankyou very much to find that out and another 750 to fix it. So after a little verbal arm twisting it was suggested that they could get onto Skoda for a goodwill payment. Awaiting with baited breath.

This experience has completely put me off deisels and am gonna go back to bein a petrol head until they sort out the reliability

[jh93]

My EGR only just recently went at around 55k, I do a lot of miles (around 3k a month) and I service the car every 8-10k with Helix Ultra. I do lots of town miles but lots of regular long distance (50+ miles) motorway journeys too, I always run on Ultimate or VPower diesel, and let's just say my driving can be very 'spirited' quite often too. Realistically I think I tick all the boxes for a clean EGR, especially considering on my last service I ran a can of EGR cleaner through the car, but still, it went. Hopefully it won't go again soon, hopefully I can get it remapped and blanked off before then. Sounds like a big common problem with these seemingly.

[cliffschooling]

Just been offered a 20% goodwill discount on a bill o £750. I think I'll tell them to go stick their goodwill where the sun dont shine. 42k miles for a major fault like this is completely unsatisfactory and considering it is a common fault....NOT A HAPPY BUNNY

[jme808]

Just been offered a 20% goodwill discount on a bill o £750. I think I'll tell them to go stick their goodwill where the sun dont shine. 42k miles for a major fault like this is completely unsatisfactory and considering it is a common fault....NOT A HAPPY BUNNY

 

I would hope you could get the work done cheaper.  I've not had the best experience with Skoda sercive departments and only use them while my cars are under warranty.  After that I either do it myself, or for work I can't do, I use a trusted local garage.  Normally under 1/2 the price of Skoda and they seem to take better care.  Some member may know of good garages near you.

 

I understand some like to use Skoda for the history though, which is fair enough - sorry to hear it's not better news anyway.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Some people like the 100% goodwill contributions you tend to get with full dealer history too.

[Ootohere]

People 'Tend' to get Goodwill because they had the Right to a full 100% Contribution anyway because there is a 'Fundamental Design or Manufacturing of Component Fault'.

(Tending is not good because that is not Consistent treatment of Customers & Owners, it is playing the Customer off in a Lottery of who deals with the case.)

 

So seeing as there is a EU Open Market on having a Vehicle Service you Pursue the Volkswagen Group / VW / Skoda / Seat /Audi 

to accept that the fault was known when the vehicle was in Warranty and that it is not 'Goodwill', it is making their faulty product right.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

If the component doesn't fault during warranty then why should it be expected to be replaced out of warranty completely free?

granted it's now a known issue but it's just poor timing that it's now affecting vehicles without warranty.

goodwill depends on a number of factors such as dealer service history, original ownership/purchase location, brand loyalty and SUK/factory discretion.

sadly cars that are second hand, purchased outside the dealer network with little or incomplete history stand a very small chance of significant good will contributions, something which SUK are pretty generous with.

[Ootohere]

All very true. 

But as we know. Vorsrung Durch Technik.  

& the Volkswagen Group keep producing and selling the vehicles while they know the upcoming failures are there, 

they just play the Numbers game in the EU where they get away with things.

 

Skoda UK is not Generous, Skoda UK try where they can and where Customers let them off with it to take the total pith.

But there are actions you can take, and luckily the EGR issues like the Timing Chain, DSG, Twincharger issues are now coming to a head 

and the Volkswagen Group will be paying the cost of the failures they knew existed and they did not address.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

They're more generous than you'd think.

The UK base of vw ag consisting of the 5 brands including SUK are the reason that uk purchased vehicles have a third year of warranty. European vehicles only have 2 years factory warranty so the UK branch supplement all repairs in the third year.

granted some of their products leave a lot to be desired when it comes to quality but it's nothing when you see some of what goes on in other brands to cover up HUGE issues.

[Ootohere]

If you say so. You are the Volkswagen Technician.   Forgive me for my scepticism.

As for what other manufacturers do, 2 wrongs do not make a right.  

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK.

3 Monkeys and employ people related to Tommy.

 

All Paying Customers should get treated as Volkswagen Group Franchised Dealership Employees will be treated,

which is correctly.

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/272158-egr-fault-is-this-common

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/262438-is-this-a-common-fault

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Your scepticism is not unfounded.

I've worked for the vw group brands for most of my career and the treatment dealt out is at times both confusing and unfair. I've seen people pay big bills where the brand knows damn well they themselves are at fault but on the flip side I've seen people who are completely unreasonable, rude and sometimes threatening kick up such a fuss that the manufacturer rolls and picks up a bill for a failure that is not necessarily their fault.

This is why things are becoming more stringent TD1 for example.

I except that referring to other brands covers ups doesn't justify what vw ag do but from what I've encountered they will always try their best to resolve minor issues before they become major, they're just not very good at handling mass catastrophic failures.

I can't discuss what I've seen other brands get up to in public but it would be enough to make you return the car you own.

[Ootohere]

We do not care about those with no reason to be expecting fair treatment, 

just those that bought a Volkswagen Group Vehicle because they believed they would be of merchantable quality, 

and when Snagging Faults & bigger Fundamental Design and Manufacturing Faults were identified they would be addressed.

 

Not just the Volkswagen way, of Hear, See & Say no Evil, it will be OK until we change the Productions in another 8 years or so, 

unless some Government Agency in a World Region in the EU will hold us to account.

Or a Group Action in the US will make as bankrupt.

[cliffschooling]

My whole grumble is under the Sale of Goods act a product must be durable and having a major engine component fail after 42k is not a demonstration of durability and I dont gie a flying **** who serviced it as long as the job is done properly. My nearest and very good garage is 19 miles away and charges £30/hour, the Skoda dealer is in Dundee (a place I rarely go to) 40 miles away, do they expect me to travel another 40 miles round trip hang about and pay at least double what my local man charges. I am not legally required to use Skoda for servicing during the gaurantees period either.

So my take on it is that they either fix it or I fix it at the local garage, punt the car and change brand and fuel.

[James@RRG_Skoda_Rochdale]

Unfortunately 42k or not it's still 5 years old and 2 years out of manufacturers warranty.