Cold start issue

[theandywaite]

Never anything to be gained from waiting.

As the car is under warranty and not owned from new, all the more reason to take it in at the first hint of an issue. You have no idea how badly the car was ragged or otherwise ill-treated in that period before you bought it.

Use the warranty for its purpose and ensure any niggles today don't develop into expensive breakdowns after the warranty expires.

Sent from my iPhone 6S Plus using Tapatalk, please excuse any typos.

 

As already established, we didn't wait at all once there was a definite issue.  We bought a car which was still in warranty for exactly the reason that issues like this would be sorted, so that's why the car is currently at the dealer undergoing investigation.

[Ootohere]

Any Update, is the car now repaired?

[theandywaite]

They still have it, it has faulted for them but they're not sure what the problem is!

[theandywaite]

Okay, an update finally - and not a good one.

 

The dealer investigated the fuel system and found diesel in there.

 

It doesn't quite add up to me, since I would imagine diesel in the fuel tank would cause continuous problems (not occasionally on a cold morning).

 

We're confident neither of us have put diesel in by accident.  It always gets filled from nearly empty, so if we had done, it would be full of diesel (not just some).  That only leaves fuel contamination I suppose.

 

We traced the problem back, and it had a tank of Tesco Momentum 99 3 days before the problem started.  I'm going to try contacting them but I'm not holding out much hope!

[theandywaite]

Okay, an update finally - and not a good one.

 

The dealer investigated the fuel system and found diesel in there.

 

It doesn't quite add up to me, since I would imagine diesel in the fuel tank would cause continuous problems (not occasionally on a cold morning).

 

We're confident neither of us have put diesel in by accident.  It always gets filled from nearly empty, so if we had done, it would be full of diesel (not just some).  That only leaves fuel contamination I suppose.

 

We traced the problem back, and it had a tank of Tesco Momentum 99 3 days before the problem started.  I'm going to try contacting them but I'm not holding out much hope!

 

It's also never spluttered or misfired whilst running, which I'd imagine would happen if there was diesel in the tank.

[RickTT]

Have you seen an independent report ? have they "just" told you this or had a 3rd party in? which method have they used to test the fuel trace ? what % was it per 50ml / 100ml ? .... 

 

Putting diesel in a petrol car is not especially common because the diesel nozzle is generally bigger than the petrol nozzle, so you as the owner would struggle with that in most cases... you can even test this by going to the same pump and trying the nozzle if it fits.

 

Fuel contamination really does not add up to me either from a garage tank point of view at a strength of engine working one min... the next not when only cold. would expect misfires at least to be logged.

 

If you would of said water in the petrol from a leaking underground tank... that would be understandable as water freezes.... but.. car would of ran like crap in normal driving you would expect.

Edited 22 January, 2016 by RickTT

[theandywaite]

It looked pretty unscientific. They took some fuel from the tank, left it over night to evaporate and then looked at what was left, and it looked and smelled diesely.

The problems started on 9th Dec.

It had approx 51 litres from Shell on 20th Dec (the tank is 55 litres), so I'd imagine anything in there would have been flushed through?

[RapidPaul]

Sounds a bit dubious to me. Hmmm

[RickTT]

It looked pretty unscientific. They took some fuel from the tank, left it over night to evaporate and then looked at what was left, and it looked and smelled diesely.

The problems started on 9th Dec.

It had approx 51 litres from Shell on 20th Dec (the tank is 55 litres), so I'd imagine anything in there would have been flushed through?

 

You would expect so, more so as the engine runs, idles, and start fine when its warm.

 

I would be wanting to see more indepth test on the diesel, im not saying the dealer is not trustworthy, but this instantly becomes your problem and not theirs if they claim this is the reason.

[Stormchaser]

I don't believe that's the answer. After filling with petrol to a tiny amount of diesel it would be so diluted that it wouldn't be a threat to the engine. Going by your video diesel isn't the problem.

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[RickTT]

I would maybe talking it to another dealer.

[theandywaite]

We're going to get a second opinion to verify, possibly a lab test done on the fuel.

 

I reconstructed a timeline of events using this thread and bank statements.

 

[67igor1]

It's not a problem with fuel...

It's happening occasionally and not soon after tank has been refueled.

 

Take out Instrument Cluster (IC) dash and unscrew IC. Do not disconnet it. Tray to move it in different directions and check... Can you start your car?

[Ootohere]

Post 1#

& it has taken a long time to start since you got it but not failed to start completely. (paraphrase).

 

Maybe the Dealership should get a Fully Qualified Master Tech on the case, or Skoda UK can get one in.

What was the issue from the beginning, and before this winter.

(Winter spec Petrol gets distributed from Mid / Late October in Scotland and the North of England and maybe later further south until March.)

[RickTT]

We're going to get a second opinion to verify, possibly a lab test done on the fuel.

 

I reconstructed a timeline of events using this thread and bank statements.

 

 

 

Present this to them,

 

Its the outside temp causing the issue... i still think voltage regulator.

[theandywaite]

Post 1#

& it has taken a long time to start since you got it but not failed to start completely. (paraphrase).

Maybe the Dealership should get a Fully Qualified Master Tech on the case, or Skoda UK can get one in.

What was the issue from the beginning, and before this winter.

(Winter spec Petrol gets distributed from Mid / Late October in Scotland and the North of England and maybe later further south until March.)

Just picked it up from the dealer. Managed to get about 10 seconds round the corner and it cut out.

It's never done that before.

My suspicion is they've put diesel in it to prove themselves right.

[Ootohere]

Pre December 2015,  

what Servicing and Maintenance had the car at a Skoda Dealership. ?

 

EG,

At Minor or Major Servicing, a Diagnostic carried out,

latest Software Up Date / Enhancements as per Manufacturers Service Schedule / Guidelines.  etc etc

[theandywaite]

OK, Skoda Assist came out.

 

The good news is I jumped prematurely to the conclusion they put diesel in it, the AA patrol man confirmed there is no diesel in the fuel lines.

 

It took him about 10 minutes to track it down to the fuel pump not priming.  He fiddled with the connections and poked it a bit, and hey presto the car fired into life straight away.  It then drove fine all the way home.

 

So it seems to me, all it ever needed was the fuel pump replacing under warranty.

 

The dealer wanted to charge £1700 for draining the fuel system, replacing fuel filter, fuel pump and all the injectors.  To say I'm disgusted is an understatement.

[Ootohere]

Good.

So does the Rapid do as other VW Products including some Skoda do,  which is prime the fuel system when you open the drivers door if the vehicle has sat long enough?

Primes before the key even goes in the ignition when the engine is cold.

[theandywaite]

Good.

So does the Rapid do as other VW Products including some Skoda do, which is prime the fuel system when you open the drivers door if the vehicle has sat long enough?

Primes before the key even goes in the ignition when the engine is cold.

I believe so, I can't say I've ever noticed it on the Rapid, but I disticntly remember hearing the fuel pump prime on previous VAG cars I've owned. Edited 23 January, 2016 by naxtek

[RapidPaul]

I think a firmly worded letter to the MD of the dealership and Skoda UK is in order. I'd be properly, teeth grindly cross if I were in your shoes.

[theandywaite]

I think a firmly worded letter to the MD of the dealership and Skoda UK is in order. I'd be properly, teeth grindly cross if I were in your shoes.

 

Absolutely. How many people in our position would have just accepted what they said and shelled out £1700 for unnecessary work?!

[Tom_vRS]

Good.

So does the Rapid do as other VW Products including some Skoda do, which is prime the fuel system when you open the drivers door if the vehicle has sat long enough?

Primes before the key even goes in the ignition when the engine is cold.

My 2015 1.2TSI primes on the ignition only, not with the doors opening etc.

[Ootohere]

Are you sure, have you never heard as you get in the car and before the key goes in the ignition?

[theandywaite]

Update: took it to an independent garage today who specialise in VAG vehicles and paid out of my own pocket for them to investigate (I trust them, they have a great reputation locally and I used to take my Fabia vRS there).

 

They believe the fuel pump and fuel pump ECU (apparently it has its own little computer) need replacing with updated parts.  There's a technical bulletin out on our exact chassis number describing this problem and the necessary steps to resolve (the independent has all the proper VAG diagnostic stuff).  They've also seen quite a few 1.2tsi vehicles from across the VAG range with exactly the same issue.

 

They've drained some fuel off so I have proof if needed - they don't believe there's anything in it except petrol, although it would take a lab analysis to prove conclusively.

 

To say I'm angry is an understatement.