Hi

I have noticed twice that my brakes do not work as they normally should when it is snowmud on the road or raining a lot. It felt like there was ice on the discs or brakepads and at first I got just a weak braking force when I pressed the pedal and it took a little while until the brakeforce was normal again and I thought I was going to hit the car in front of me.

I went to the Skoda service and told them what has happened and the say that they were aware of the problem, one of their mecanics had noticed the same on his Superb. They said that there was nothing they could do about it and the reason that it can happen is that the distance between the disc and brakepad is increased so that there should be less rolling resistance and less petrol consumption and now more dirt can stick between the disc and brakepads, which reduces the brakeforce. This is very serious and means that you can hit and kill someone since the brakes do no function as they should. The Skoda mecanics told me that this had happen on some older models and they had to install wider fender protection over the discs and on some AUDI cars with the same problem the factory had put in an automatic function which make the brakes to brake just a little now and then to get rid of the dirt between the disc and brakepad. What shall I do, Buy a different brand of car??

The cars do have adjustable 'Brake Assist' for Disabled Drivers to have set,

but you likely do not want to have that set.

 

Owners / Drivers are going to have to keep contacting their Countries Skoda Customer Services, 

but they will say that the brakes work to the standard required.

 

Maybe best give in and fit decent after market brake pads that do work,

even try sending the invoice for them the the Skoda Customer Services in your country.

 

If anyone is in a serious accident and testing of the brakes show them unsafe then that would probably be Corporate Responsibility, 

any Fatality Corporate Responsibility and Man Slaughter.

 

The Volkswagen Group take Emissions and Sales as being more important than Customers and the Publics safety.

 

DAS AUTO / Vorsprung Durch Technik.  

Build them cheap, Pile them high, sell them and worry later if they are rubbish.

I can understand what you are meaning, I used to have a 2000MY Passat 4Motion, and the first time that I drove it long distance in snow/ice/slush conditions with a lot of salt on the motorways, I almost crapped myself when I braked and initially got that "accelerating" feeling - not good!

Round about this time, AutoExpress carried an article from an Audi A4 owner in Scotland complaining about the problem with her car in similar winter conditions, Audi's answer was "due to the removal of asbestos from the friction materials, all manufacturers have this issue, ie not only Audi" 

So, I put this to the test at my local VW dealer as car was only maybe 6 months old, "we suggest that you buy a set of pads from Audi as they are using the improved/later spec of friction material - we will also contact VW about this".  VW phoned me about this but would not commit themselves when I said that Audi were now fitting improved water deflectors to the front wheel area, instead they sent me a letter which basically said exactly what was reported in AutoExpress, with the advice that all drivers should check their brakes frequently to prepare them for use!

So, I took a two prong fix approach to this, first I bought the Audi improved deflectors and then bought ATE Power Discs - these discs have grooves in them and that helps them shed water - all problems now resolved!

 

That means that I should really have a look at the brakes on wife's new Polo - strange to say they are exactly the same model/disc diameter as were fitted to my 2000MY Passat 4Motion - they certainly feel a lot better in the Polo!  I think that all cars that have "trailing" or "rear" mounted callipers will have this issue, though I seem to remember that all my Polos have had "leading" or "front" mounted disc callipers which should mean that they get better protection from the wheel rims. Yes Audi and probably others, do have a "brake kissing disc" function that is meant keep the brakes prepared for action!

Edited 29 January, 201610 yr by rum4mo

Hi Svisse16, 

 

This is something that you have to get used to. All manufacturers try to reduce the amount of disc contact the brake pads make with the discs during normal driving. It's not a problem for most folks and I've never found it an issue. In Sweden where you have a bit more muck on the roads then I can see you need to be aware of this slight anomaly. The answer is to just be aware of it and know that you need to brake slightly earlier in normal use. You will find that in an emergency the car will still brake to a stop in the same amount of time. Hard application of the brakes (as in an emergency) clears the problem instantly.

Then as well as the ABS trying to stop your brakes locking up and the tyres losing traction and you control, 

there can be rubbish tyres.

 

Do the Skoda in Sweden come on ECO tyres, which then need changed over for winter months or decent performance when ever wet, cold or snowy?

 

?

Is you car still on the tyres from the factory, & what are they?

or do you have winter tyres on now?

Thanks for all interesting comments. I will try to find discs with groves and I guess that they will rinse the rain, dirt, snow from the Surfaces of the disc and pad. I have winter tires with a lot of carbide spikes.

hmm i knew the brakes werent that great in the fabia  , has a long long travel before they bite.

Maybe forget the grooves and replacing discs, solid discs are fine in the cold /wet on a normal passenger vehicle.

maybe get some decent pads that work in the wet, readily available.

Then as well as the ABS trying to stop your brakes locking up and the tyres losing traction and you control, 

there can be rubbish tyres.

 

Do the Skoda in Sweden come on ECO tyres, which then need changed over for winter months or decent performance when ever wet, cold or snowy?

 

No, they come with equal tire-setup to the UK.

But youll also need an extra set of wheels with winter-tires as it is compulsory during the winter months. Many will choose studded tires. Living down south where winter is less harsh I do prefer plain but nordic style rubber (which is softer and gives better grip than euro-style winter rubber)

Itsa dangerous world out there. Eventually you die.

According to the Skoda Fabia 3 Self-Study Manual, the car features RBS (Brake Disc Drying) :

 

 

When it is raining, a thin water film may develop on brake discs. In such a case, the water film delays the brake effect. Brake segments slide on the water film until heated water evaporates or until it is removed by the brake segments. Only then a full brake effect becomes possible.
For this reason, the RBS assistance system – brake disc drying was developed. The function shortens the brake effect delay while driving in a rain. It is achieved by short-term mild contacts between the brake segments and brake discs, while the driver senses no vehicle deceleration. Resultantly, the brake discs get dry, full brake effect becomes available, and the vehicle braking distance may be shortened.

RBS function activation conditions:
– Vehicle reaches a specific speed (70 km/h)
– Windshield wipers engaged

If these two conditions are met, this function is activated during permanent or interval windshield wiper operation at specified intervals. The brake pressure for the RBS function is limited to the maximum pressure of 2 bar. Upon a single wipe, the braking process takes place only once.

 

This is part of the Bosch 9.0 ESC Control Unit.

The issue is that many never use wipers or need to on melting snow like when the surface has been treated and there is a thaw on, 

or 'After the Rain'. (Nice cosmetics'.)

Or might not reach 70km/h (43 mph), due to driving to the road conditions, wet under tyre and on brake discs that are not that hot.  They might have been over 70km/h but lifted off and now need to brake.

 

So like those with Poverty Spec, Manual Lights and manual wipers that drivers switch on, 

you need to remember to lightly brake occasionally, 

like you do after you go through a ford. (water dip.)

Edited 29 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

I used to get that on my superb driving in really inclement wet weather, over snow/ice. I'd think about where and when I may need the brakes and periodically lightly use the brakes to apply a minimal amount of force. Seemed to prep the brakes of fuxz. So lets say a motorway slip road, I'd begin with a very light touch at 300' then 100' so they'd be 'normal' on the sliproad where there maybe obstruction x.

 

Of course it didn't allow for unexpected elsewhere, so Id' do it more often ,especially on A & B roads where actually you'll be braking more anyway. 

 

But actually stamping, tended to work too... like finding a stag and hind on a twisty A road at 2am after coming back from Scotland in winter, except I was only a few miles from my house in Sheffield ( Not known as deer country )...

 

 

Who said brake travel on a fabia is long You want to try a citigo.... I promise you the engine braking is almost as effective, only clutch material is more expensive  

Reminds me of an old friend, he'd got an old focus back in the 90's. I'd got a citroen xantia ( good brakes - sort of back then ). Very short travel compared to focus... as Gareth discovered adjusting his speed joining a motorway in france and I did a few years later taking the back of it whilst parking it on the front of a lorry at 60odd, hah good old barge she was. Sorry digression.

 

 

But that acceleration before hand is very off-putting. I do like the sound of that Bosch RBS system...

I only drive automatics and sometimes the brakes are pathetic even from new (eg Citroen).

 

It is amazing if someone is driving your car, or matbe sharing driving a hire car,

you ask if they are fine with an automatic and you find out that the brakes are pretty good as they think the brake pedal is the clutch.

Edited 29 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

Been there, done that Mr Offski. The first week I had my DSG I came to a roundabout. I did not ask it to but my left foot pushed the brake pedal really hard cos it thought I wanted to change down a cog. It caused a shrieking four wheel lock up and my puzzled daughter asked me what I did that for. As for the brakes, I have just returned from a 550 mile round trip to Aberdeen. The trip out was in constant rain and the roads were very dirty with salt. The temperature was between 1 and 3 degrees. Every time I used the brakes, there was absolutely nothing there at first. The wipers were on all the time, sometimes intermittent. If there is some automatic disc clearing system, it does not work at all. It does feel like the car accelerates when you put the brakes on but I think that's in the mind. At first, I put lots more pressure on the brake pedal which worked but after a bit, I dabbed the brakes and then used them normally. That worked well if you had the time but does not allow for an emergency stop. I suppose it's something you have to get used to and learn to drive around.

Humm, the sensation of accelerating while braking, not the best feeling in the world, I was on a return trip from Canterbury to Edinburgh when I first had that issue with my previous car, Passat 4Motion, not good when it seemed to be open season for last minute lane changers and I was trying to mind my own business while making good progress!  That sensation comes from you knowing that you suddenly need to brake, know that you are braking, but the traffic in front is getting quite close unusually quickly!

I hope that I discover this if it affects new Polos with big brakes as well, before my wife does, though she never makes any mistakes - well that is what me tells me! Fabia/Polo/Ibiza with the larger front brakes - these brakes feel different to the smaller 256mm discs and FS111 callipers I had on previous Polo, with that previous Polo the brakes could be called "vicious" for someone used to driving an old heavy B5 Passat 4Motion, now I mainly drive an Ibiza 1.4 with small brakes - but I find the Polo with its bigger brakes takes a bit more brake pressure to slow down - or maybe its brakes are more progressive than the smaller brakes on the 2009 Ibiza.

 

I have only ever pressed the "clutch" on an automatic car once, luckily 10/10 for the car following me - it was an old Rover 820 and we had just passed the security gate at work, so I was accelerating and "changing up", or so I thought, the following car would have been doing the same thing so they did very well to avoid hitting me! Almost stood it on its nose!

Edited 29 January, 201610 yr by rum4mo

Dont neglect the old keep distance-trick

Works really quite well in any weather unless some jerk dont get the idea and fill up the gap.

You are right Mr Pfaff. I was taught to keep 2 seconds between myself and the car in front. You take a marker, say a road sign, and start counting when the car in front passes the mark. You should be able to count to 3 before you pass the mark. This works well because the faster you are travelling, the greater the distance. However, you leave a 2 second gap and someone will usually try to get into it. This gap is for good conditions, I would extend it if the weather were poor. Another thing I believe is that it is brakes that waste fuel more than the loud pedal. The reason is that the brakes transform your motion energy into heat: every time you press the brake pedal, you literally burn off wasted fuel. So I try to minimise use of brakes to save fuel, tyres and stop the alloys getting dirty. Sometimes I drive for hours without touching the brakes and I expect that it is these habits that lead to the brake discs being slippery when I eventually need them.

I'm a little surprised that discs do not spin off the water at speeds above 40mph  ?

They do, and the tyres spin more on.

 

Worth watching a vid of inner wheel arches of a vehicle driving in the rain,

its a bit like 'Frank' 'Gertrude' or 'Harry' in there, or even like a Washing Machine doing a Wash Cycle.

Edited 31 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

I have recently made a motorway journey in continuous heavy rain. I had forgotten about the way the brakes are affected by the rain and when I had to brake sharply, there was nothing there. I was lucky that the discs cleared in time to prevent an accident but it was very close.

 

I remembered this thread from some time ago and I wondered if this is a recognised problem and if Skoda can do anything about improving the brakes in heavy rain. I find the brakes perfectly good in dry conditions but there is about a 1 second delay in heavy rain. 

At least you are aware and can drive safely to the conditions, slow down, try to keep your distance, and the issue can sometimes  be that when you have good brakes the OEM fitted tyres are garbage on wet roads.

 

Be sure to pass your concerns to the Media like 'Honest John', Auto Express, Auto Car, Drive, Car, VW Driver, etc etc,

Nobody will listen but at least its being said publicly and maybe so Loss Adjuster or Insurance Under Writer / Broker will pay attention 

if people are crashing because of VW Group braking systems and how they are in the wet.

I have recently made a motorway journey in continuous heavy rain. I had forgotten about the way the brakes are affected by the rain and when I had to brake sharply, there was nothing there. I was lucky that the discs cleared in time to prevent an accident but it was very close.

 

I remembered this thread from some time ago and I wondered if this is a recognised problem and if Skoda can do anything about improving the brakes in heavy rain. I find the brakes perfectly good in dry conditions but there is about a 1 second delay in heavy rain. 

 

Great, after all this time someone comes along and confirms that Fabia 1.2TSI, probably with 288mm front discs and ATE callipers are having the same problems that 2000 Passats had with the same set up, bother, bother, bother! I can only say that I'm glad that normally wife's Polo 1.2TSI 110PS is only used on lower speed roads/journeys - well mainly so. I kind of hoped by now, VAG had uprated all brake pads to behave a lot better than the way they discovered the 2000 variants did, also that they had added some shielding to that area of all their cars, like they did with Passat back at model change in 2001. 15 years on and nothing has changed - how could that happen with VAG, 10 or so years later they have made small "mistakes" with emissions - again how could that happen?