Electric Car Lease Deals

[mdk1]

Might be worth sending Richard "Bossfox" a PM as he has experience of running 4/5 leafs and Kia Souls and is now on a Tesla.

Have a look at his EV thread.

[speedy1]

Anyone See the tv program with James May about the different fueled cars ?

 

He has a BMW I3 and right at the end of the program he summarised  EV as follows.  

The 1st EV built nearly 80 years ago got a real world range of approx 85 miles,  His I3 has a real world range of approx 85 Miles, his face spoke more than any words could.

must have   forgot  about  tesla which is strange for a motoring journalist.

[silver1011]

Might be worth sending Richard "Bossfox" a PM as he has experience of running 4/5 leafs and Kia Souls and is now on a Tesla.

Have a look at his EV thread.

 

It was Richards thread that got me as far as arranging the test drive, a great thread. It started off sensible, with the Leaf, then the Kia Soul EV and then when he moved to the Tesla it became fantasy for me!

 

It seems that in addition to the Government grant reduction as of today (£5,000 to £4,500) they also subsidised the cost and installation of the charge points, both home and work.

 

The £250 Pod Point is now £400, a properly installed twin charging post for work will be close to £1,000.

 

More numbers to crunch!

Edited 1 March, 2016 by silver1011

[JohnRS]

I've just had a PCP quote from Trenton Nissan in Hull on a 30KW Tekna in black with 6.6kw charger. I got quoted 24 months at £289 and 36 months at £266. This was with £500 deposit but 8,000 miles. This is the cheapest quote I could find, which includes a quote from a local dealer where I get discount from a family member who works for NMUK. The list price on this model after the discount is £20,700 but then the grant comes off this, so £16,700 and they quoted £290 pcm on a 36 month term, 8k miles and £500 deposit. With such a large discount I was surprised when Trenton were able to beat their quote by £30 pcm.

I am getting a 30KW Tekna for an extended test drive tomorrow to see how I get on with it.

[Defenderben]

Just looked at Western power distribution site after the latest battering of a storm today, to see the number of extended mains failures in the SW region.

Hopefully battery range etc will get the attention it needs in the next few years before I come to renew my car.

Surprised they are not covering the larger areas with PV of some description.

Edited 2 March, 2016 by Defenderben

[silver1011]

I've just had a PCP quote from Trenton Nissan in Hull on a 30KW Tekna in black with 6.6kw charger. I got quoted 24 months at £289 and 36 months at £266. This was with £500 deposit but 8,000 miles. This is the cheapest quote I could find, which includes a quote from a local dealer where I get discount from a family member who works for NMUK. The list price on this model after the discount is £20,700 but then the grant comes off this, so £16,700 and they quoted £290 pcm on a 36 month term, 8k miles and £500 deposit. With such a large discount I was surprised when Trenton were able to beat their quote by £30 pcm.

I am getting a 30KW Tekna for an extended test drive tomorrow to see how I get on.

 

Let us know how you get on.

 

Ian at Trenton is able to offer some crazy deals, my quote was only £100 more a month than yours for an extra 21,000 miles per year.

 

Unfortunately my plan took a bit of a hit today, the charge points within walking distance of work are all occupied (council and company owned vehicles) meaning I'd have to use the standard 3 pin plug to charge during the day, which at 15 hours for the 30kwh would mean trying to get home or to work on less than a full charge.

 

A bit chicken and egg, I won't order without test driving but I can't test drive unless I can find a way to fast charge it during the day at work.

[JohnRS]

That's a bit of a bummer. My commute is 8 miles each way so I wouldn't see as much of a benefit as you, if you could charge it! Financially it probably isn't going to work out for me. The monthly payment is more than I pay on the HP agreement I have on my S3 so fuel savings would just pay the extra monthly payment. Real world I'd save about £60 per month. I haven't written it off yet though.

[silver1011]

I wouldn't worry, fuel prices are only going one way from where we are now!

 

My work are looking at fitting a charge point, will take months before they decide though!

[JohnRS]

Right I've had the Leaf since yesterday and I've done some proper calculations today with the options I have. Long term the Leaf is the most costly, taking into account the zero equity I'd have after the Leafs PCP term and the positive equity I'd have on the Audi in the same period it just isn't worth it. Plus I don't really like the car, which could be due to the fact I asked for a Tekna and got an Acenta so has no leather or Xenons. However I just can't see myself putting up with it for 2 or 3 years.

[silver1011]

I'm not quite ready either.

 

I haven't even test driven one but the 'range anxiety' on my lengthy commute is enough to keep me burning fossil fuel for a little longer.

[JohnRS]

Well this is the fourth day of the test drive, I hand it back after work and to be honest I'll be glad to see the back of it. Some of the things that I really don’t like, other than the price is;

In the rear the centre floor pan bit is huge. I have 3 kids so who ever sits in the middle has to prop their feet on it, it’s almost as tall as the seat.

The keyless entry thing is useless, it doesn’t pick the key up in my right pocket, so have to take it out and put it in the drinks holder.

A trivial thing that really annoyed me is the plastic steering wheel, albeit an Acenta feature it is one I definitely don’t want.

The real world range is not that great – I have the 30kw and have done around 100 miles, but have topped it up from about 30% to ~90% twice and once from around 50% - 70%, it will be on around 50% when I hand it back today. Now I have done some 70mph motorway driving, the radio, climate etc were on but that’s the whole point. I think I’d assume no more than 90 miles to be on the safe side, you’d get more in eco mode and by turning all of the comfort features off, but I don’t want to have to do that.

The reliability and availability of public charging stations is enough to put me off all electric though: We planned to go out yesterday and I knew there were free points where we were going (Ikea) so didn’t leave it plugged in overnight. I set off with around 60% assuming I’d use rapid chargers to get it to over 90% only to find not only were all of the Ikea points were used, there was actually 4 other EV’s waiting!

The next set of public access ones are in the Metrocentre (not rapid though), again all but one were used, with the one free being broken. I then went to the services in Washington, both north and south were used (4 in total) so I ended up going to Gateshead College (near the Nissan plant) to use their rapid charger, and sat in the car for 40 minutes.  

I figure you would need to leave it plugged in, at home permanently, given the availability of public points you would need to ensure you had enough charge to get to and from your intended journey on a charge. The whole planning your journey and then fretting when you can’t find a public point is daft.

[cheezemonkhai]

Until you can get 150 miles out of one, I don't think they'll work for most people who commute.

That would basically be safe for a 30-50 mile journey each way (Assuming the 150 miles is in good weather) with a bit of spare for traffic problems etc.

I think if we're being honest a hydrogen fuel cell needs to happen.

The water can be condensed and collected so that we don't fill the air with loads of water vapour and create other problems, but the weight of battery to get a decent range is too much.

Hydrogen could be sold at normal petrol stations, keeping big oil and gas happy if they made the stuff too.

At the end of the day, we can't rely on batteries, people won't switch due to range and the oil derived stuff isn't the most stable of supplies either.

[Defenderben]

JohnRS, glad you ran it for a good few days to get some real world driving.

Driving around looking for charging points would stress the hell out of me and would make living with pure electric a massive chore and would take over my life.

Unless you are in a city or large town and rarely go outside them, I think pure EV is not there yet and probably never will be for a good few years, in which time Hydrogen should be getting off the ground.

Edited 7 March, 2016 by Defenderben

[Xavier]

What about a second hand Tesla?

New, their lease plans aren't that bad either, although of course more expensive than a Leaf. But you would get the range, luxury, access to fast charging network (if it works for you), etc.

 

Whoops, my man maths were a bit off. Sorry

Edited 7 March, 2016 by Xavier

[Defenderben]

Tesla??

Second hand, I think they are £50k plus; that under any lease plan would be well beyond my reach and TBH well beyond where I would go for any car, unless money was no object and I had all my houses all paid for first

[Gwilo]

I see the Leaf has a 30Kwh pack as an option now.  that would address my concerns, having tried one last year for a week, twice.

 

I also recently tried the BMW i3.  What a shocker.

Daft pricing, lots of the interior is 'recyclable' according to the salesman (read 'looks cheap and super-plasticky') and the understeer and body roll is horrific on 20inch wheels.

I went into a moderately tight left hander at 20mph, and the damn thing deposited the salesman on my left leg and took us clean onto the other side of the road as it failed to hold its place on the road. quite a brown trouser moment.  The Leaf felt far more stable, had more interior space and on current leasing deals is half the price of the i3.

If my income permit it, I'd be taking a very serious look at the Leaf again.

[silver1011]

Just thought I'd revive this thread. Always looking at ways to reduce my commuting costs (other than moving closer to work!).

 

Even with the increasing popularity of PCH deals and the introduction of a number of new hybrids (Kia Niro etc.) buying a used diesel and running it until it dies remains the most cost effective option for my circumstances...

 

 

Edited 27 December, 2016 by silver1011

[Xavier]

Interesting. Your figures suggest you wouldn't get anything back for the Superb should you switch. So I guess you're keeping it as a backup / for longer journeys? In which case you'd still need to have it taxed, MOTd and insured...

 

I suppose the calculation is whether you can get a second cheap ICE runabout for less than the £441/month.

 

Having switched to electric (OK, a luxury Tesla compared to a Leaf / Ioniq / Zoe), I couldn't go back.

 

I think you can still get a one-week trial with a Leaf - might be too short range for your commute, but worth it to see if you can get on with the change - I'm assuming you haven't had an extended test drive so apologies if you have :)

[silver1011]

My calculations are based on running the Superb until it is worth nothing (10 years / 300,000 miles).

 

Netting this down to a total monthly amount seemed the best way to compare it with a PCH deal.

 

The Leaf doesn't quite have the range for me (even with the latest 30Kw battery) so I looked at Hybrids too. The real world MPG on the Kia Niro is 50mpg (quoted 78mpg) which is exactly what my diesel Superb is doing so there aren't any fuel savings to be had.

 

So ultimately the only way a PCH would be cheaper is if the total monthly amount is less than the depreciation and maintenance of a bought diesel car.

 

I tried to test drive a Leaf but there wasn't anywhere to fast charge it close to work. I'd love a Tesla but way out of budget, I bet it's a great car to drive!

Edited 27 December, 2016 by silver1011

[StevesTruck]

My personal experience of running the numbers on a couple of electrics (e-NV200 and a Berlingo electrique) to replace the lease van we have for the other business was that the price difference between a diesel van and an electric one was way more than what we currently spend on diesel for the van that just does local jobs and range is still a big issue for me to use one for my van. 

 

Which is a shame really, as I'd actually like to have one. 

[silver1011]

That about sums it up, I want the numbers to work as I'd like to try one but alas they don't.

 

As long as its cheaper for me to run a diesel then that's what I'll do.

[Gwilo]

If initial purchase price/replacement battery costs were not an issue, I'd be very seriously looking at a leaf for my daily driver - 4 miles each way commute, 20-30mph inner town driving, it would be perfect. I reckon I could get away with charging it every 3-4 weeks, even running A/C, stereo and lights, and using the app to pre-warm/cool the car every day.

But the initial purchase cost is still frightening, and last time I checked, Nissan UK still weren't being terribly clear on replacement battery costs (though figures of 5K were suggested, every 5 years to maintain range).

That makes no financial sense at all, because spending big money on a car, I fully expect it to not need a new engine every five years to keep it able to do 100+ miles between fill ups.

Sticking wth Dr Diesels evil invention here for the foreseeable future (and an old Audi diesel engine at that!)

Edited 28 December, 2016 by Gwilo

[Xavier]

Gwilo, your thinking of only having to charge it every 3-4 weeks is the wrong way of looking at it - you're still thinking of a tank of diesel you fill up when the low fuel light comes on! People need to think of charging electric cars as opportunity charging as well as required charging - you top it up whenever you get the chance. This is particularly important if you only have access to slow chargers where a full charge from empty will take several hours.

 

The battery cost and reliability is just FUD IMO :) The tech has moved on so much in the last ten years that it isn't really an issue at all. Several leafs have done several 100,000 miles with maybe 10% battery degredation worst case, more likely to be 5%. So you're losing 10 miles range maximum. This isn't ever an issue unless you need to do 100+ miles between charges in which case you'd need to adjust to recharging every 90 miles on a long journey.

 

Their usable life span is also linked to how you treat them and this goes back to the topping up when you can. Ideally, a Li-on battery should have its state of charge around 50% to maximise battery life. So charging it up to 100% and letting it discharge to near 0 is what's bad for it. Keep it within the 20-80% SoC and you'll be absolutely fine. It's also worth noting if you didn't already know that charge speeds slow down as the battery fills so if you use a fast charger, the last 95-100% probably take as much time as 20-80%. It's certainly the case with the Tesla and I'd presume it to be similar with other BEVs.

 

There are (at least were) very good lease deals on Leafs and Zoes. Just looking at a Leaf Tekna with all the toys and the larger 30kWh battery which can get you up to 150 miles. With a £3k deposit, it's just over £300/month for a 36 month lease doing 10,000 miles/year.

[Gwilo]

Sorry, my mistake or not being terribly thorough in my comments.

The FUD element will exist until the manufacturers are clear on replacement battery costs.  Regardless of life span, it's a question that consumers new to the tech will ask.  If the professional representative of the car maker can't give you a clear answer, it's a bit poor, and does nothing to dispel the uncertainty that's been put out there by the naysayers and big oil.....(oooh, conspiracy theorist fodder Class 101).

Lease deals do sound great....if you've got the money to spend and want to be on that wheel. Whenever I've looked into it, the whole thing is predicated on having a few grand to put down as a deposit first, then walk away or restart in three years time.  My preference is to have ownership of the vehicle from day one.. Yes, I know depreciation and running costs etc all affect the actual cost to my wallet.  Maybe I'm coming at it all backwards, and I don't mind if anyone wishes to correct me, but in all my years of car ownership, I've not spent £3K per year for three years, on servicing, maintenance, insurance and tax or depreciation losses and had nothing to show for it at the end. It's a state of mind. I'd still have insurance and servicing/maintenance on a Leaf or any EV as well, and those costs are largely comparable (servicing being the only difference, at around 50% from the figures I'd been given).If i had one, I'd have a home charger and top it up a bit every week, but I do take your point on he charging cycle management aspect being counterintuitive to newcomers. I expressed it purely in those terms, as many, including myself initially, only see the headline figures and work on 'old' thinking.

 

Still, £300 a month is a lot the I don't have spare to drop on a car.  And i think that's probably the root issue for many people.  The economics of leasing don't really work for me, but may suit others circumstances and wants better. I just need a car that has sufficient space for the family, doesn't drink like a fish or breakdown like a z-list celeb on daytime TV.

But I'd still sell my own grandmother for a Model S 90D :D

[silver1011]

There are some very good deals on the Nissan Leaf on a PCH.

 

Yeomans Nissan (down south somewhere) will do you the 30Kw Tekna on an 8,000 miles per year deal for £189 deposit and £189 per month for two years (1+23).

 

Once you get over never owning a car you'll never look back. I too was unable to get my head around paying out all that money and not having anything to show at the end of it. That was until an offer came up on the Octavia Scout which was too good to turn down. I now have a really nice brand new car that will always be under warranty for £200 per month. No tax, no MOT, no unexpected bills just the monthly payment and one £149 service sometime between now and two years time. Bliss.

 

As soon as the Leaf (or other affordable EV) gets a longer range I'm on it.