GTI Clubsport after all...

[Ootohere]

Really this is the Q Car.

[vrskeith]

http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/s3-saloon

Eco review.

[newbie69]

Really this is the Q Car.

 

Awful wheels though on that car in the video...

 

http://www.evo.co.uk/audi/s3-saloon

Eco review.

 

Pretty much sums up my opinion on the car as well: Best looking saloon, great performance, quality interior but not the most engaging drive. At least it's not as bad as Audis usually are, kind of like this video:

 

 

And a stage 1 map will give much more than that extra grunt the reviewer's wishing for.

 

Now only if my dealer really cared selling me the car and gave me a call at some point...

Edited 18 March, 2016 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

Have you driven a S3 Saloon yet?

[newbie69]

Have you driven a S3 Saloon yet?

 

Dealer is calling tomorrow, which was 2 days ago.

[newbie69]

Plot twist: The 3rd "I don't speak of" VAG sibling which hadn't ever been considered before only because I didn't expect it to be such a great car (as it turns out) might be a winner in the end. Outperforms the S3 (and RS3 on track), has received great praise about how it's set up and has much more reasonable pricing than the Audi (at least in Sweden, Audi costing a whoping 8-10K more). It was when I realized people that cared about driving these cars properly were massively upgrading suspension to their S3 because of poor stock handling characteristics that I swore I was not going to go down that road again with my next car. FFS 40k sould be able to buy a car that's already sorted, well not with Audi apparently. Already decided on colour and wheels I think, now I need to start test-drives...

 

Edited 19 March, 2016 by newbie69

[Lady Elanore]

Ooh I like the hide feature

[Ootohere]

I did wonder why the Golf R had not been mentioned as one of the possible purchases.

3 or 5 door manual or DSG or estate (combi) DSG only. Does just about everything very well, no dramas.

Edited 20 March, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[newbie69]

I did wonder why the Golf R had not been mentioned as one of the possible purchases.

3 or 5 door manual or DSG or estate (combi) DSG only. Does just about everything very well, no dramas.

 

I don't know really. I thought the GTI was good but the R just an overkill with a powerful engine. No idea they had done such a great job setting up the handling and the AWD with so much more of a driver oriented philosophy than Audi has done in the S3. And If I'm honest I never saw myself inside a Golf in the past. As much as I appreciate its quality all over the years, it sounded too ordinary. Well the more I look at the R now, the more it grows on me I have to say. I wonder what will be the look on the Audi dealer's face when he calls me and hears that while waiting for his call, I visited a VW dealership and got a really nice offer on the R so he has to try hard to talk me out of it...

[newbie69]

That video shows just how badly set up for track both the S3 and RS3 are, I can only imagine how bigger the difference would be against the S3.

 

 

Shocking really. Don't get me wrong the S3 saloon is still the looker (the Sportback I don't find any better than the Golf) but with so much power it's sure you're going to demand much more from the chassis than merely a solid Autobahn ride which is basically what those Audis are set up for.

Edited 20 March, 2016 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

Any decision yet, or thoughts. 

Which have you had a drive of now?

[newbie69]

Drove the R last week finally. Power seemed the same as in the Cupra (obviously), funny how a stage 2 vRS seems just as quick up to 80-100mph. But there where the 1.4 seems to need an extra breath, the 2liter TSI just pulls effortlessly. It's so linear that you can feel how restricted it is on the factory engine map and how much more it can give. Steering, I quite liked it. A bit lazy on smaller wheel turns but sharpened when you became more rude with it. I still think the Cupra's nose was more eager to change direction but only marginally on the public road and under the conditions driven (I think driving them on track will amplify this difference I feel). Interior was nice but I expected more exclusive sport touches that I didn't find.

 

Biggest disappointment was the boot though. At 343lt it's the smallest of the 3 (S3 - 365, Cupra - 380) and one of the main reasons I have ruled it out. It honestly felt no bigger than the Fabia's boot and I will have a hard time explaining to the wife how I spent 35K on a new car that still barely fits a stroller...  Second reason is that unless seen from the back, it looks so much like any other Golf and I've wrote before I never was the hugest fan of them looks-wise. So a very good car nonetheless but not for me in the end. I found it more ordinary looking, less practical, less dynamic and around a good 5K more expensive than the Cupra which I honestly can't fault. I've tried but it seems no matter how I compare it to any other alternative it comes out on top. Residuals is still a worry but in the end, if it's such a good car as I feel so far that it will be, it won't matter very much.

 

If half of what I read about the S3 is true I don't even need to test-drive it and I'm also ****ed at the dealer which has forgot? to call back and I won't be calling him for sure. Best looks out of the 3 but the worst one in terms of driving dynamics and a price tag (in Sweden at least) that is totally unjustifiable.

 

My biggest dilemma right now is whether I'll go for the 5door which I like and is an improvement in terms of space (although not a huge one as the ST) or the ST to try and make it look like I did it for the family  :p   Heart says 5d, mind says ST...  Spending my time watching photos and videos to try and make a decision...

 

This: 

 

Or

 

 

 

In any case I'm throwing the Sub8 pack and heated bucket seats on it as I feel they really set it apart and give an idea of what this car really is about:

 

Edited 28 March, 2016 by newbie69

[Lady Elanore]

The 5dr is a very smart looking car. I think SEAT have really 'nailed' the look of the Leon these days. Best looking of the VAG family at this size imho

[Furbytom]

The 5dr is a very smart looking car. I think SEAT have really 'nailed' the look of the Leon these days. Best looking of the VAG family at this size imho

Worst on the inside though ;-)

Although to be fair, the seats in the pic above are very nice :-)

Edited 28 March, 2016 by Furbytom

[Lady Elanore]

The only thing I didn't like about my old Toledo was the pink-ish dials and displays. I don't know why, but it eventually began to really annoy me

[Lady Elanore]

Worst on the inside though ;-)

Although to be fair, the seats in the pic above are very nice :-)

 

perhaps as a 1 series owner I am not qualified to make aesthetic comments about a cars appearance :-)

[newbie69]

Worst on the inside though ;-)

Although to be fair, the seats in the pic above are very nice :-)

 

I don't know if you've been in one but based on my knowledge of older Ibizas and Leons I was thinking much the same before getting in, I thought I would be let down by the interior but to my surprise I wasn't. There's nice soft plastic covering the top of the dashboard as in more premium brands, some chrome details on the right places and I'd say the lines are clear and dynamic enough to give away its character nicely without "screaming" in a bad way as Seats have done in the past. More importantly, the entire dash, panels, controls felt rock-solid, much like the Golf I was in the previous day. I think the alcantara buckets will give the final missing sports note. Looks is of course subjective but I personally don't see a lot that's not to like in there:

 

 

I think SEAT has built a great car in the new Cupra and actually what they have to overcome when it comes to selling it is people's prejudice about it as a brand and its past image. I know I had to think it multiple times before I accepted it...

 

Biggest interior disappointment was the R really. There was nothing about it, plain conservative Golf look which I understand is exactly what some people are after and like but come on VW, that's far from your everyday Golf, dare and make it look as special as it really is . The S3 yes had the coolest design, i think it's the airplane style vents that do the trick otherwise it is quite spartan, but I like minimal and elegant so I still stand by my initial statement about the S3 being the smarter looking of all. Unfortunately I am after more than the looks.

Edited 28 March, 2016 by newbie69

[Furbytom]

I don't know if you've been in one but based on my knowledge of older Ibizas and Leons I was thinking much the same before getting in, I thought I would be let down by the interior but to my surprise I wasn't. There's nice soft plastic covering the top of the dashboard as in more premium brands, some chrome details on the right places and I'd say the lines are clear and dynamic enough to give away its character nicely without "screaming" in a bad way as Seats have done in the past. More importantly, the entire dash, panels, controls felt rock-solid, much like the Golf I was in the previous day. I think the alcantara buckets will give the final missing sports note. Looks is of course subjective but I personally don't see a lot that's not to like in there:

I think SEAT has built a great car in the new Cupra and actually what they have to overcome when it comes to selling it is people's prejudice about it as a brand and its past image. I know I had to think it multiple times before I accepted it...

Biggest interior disappointment was the R really. There was nothing about it, plain conservative Golf look which I understand is exactly what some people are after and like but come on VW, that's far from your everyday Golf, dare and make it look as special as it really is . The S3 yes had the coolest design, i think it's the airplane style vents that do the trick otherwise it is quite spartan, but I like minimal and elegant so I still stand by my initial statement about the S3 being the smarter looking of all. Unfortunately I am after more than the looks.

I've sat in a couple of them and had a decent testdrive of the Leon Cupra 280. Thought the interior was in a league below what I found in the Golf and Audi but it's only my opinion. These things as always are subjective and down to personal preference. Demo Leon already had quite a few rattles too :-(

[Ootohere]

Really that is why you can buy a 15 Plate Leon Cupra ST 280 with under 1,000 miles for under £22,000, 

or a 65 Plate with under 100 miles for £25,000 or less.

 

They are a performance bargain,

and a Depreciation disaster, which hardly matters if buying to keep a while, or long time mister.

[newbie69]

I've sat in a couple of them and had a decent testdrive of the Leon Cupra 280. Thought the interior was in a league below what I found in the Golf and Audi but it's only my opinion. These things as always are subjective and down to personal preference. Demo Leon already had quite a few rattles too :-(

 

Strange, I repeatedly pushed and squeezed everything in there to hear a rattle (salesman looked puzzled) and coming from a Fabia I know all the places these things can hide in    but I didn't succeed. Driving through some bumpy stone roads around here, I still didn't hear a thing so I can say that it seemed quite well-built. People that have been driving them for a longer time also report that there's no rattles or other noises showing up after 30-50K miles so what can I say...

 

One thing I can think of is that the first models, I think MY2014, had a noisy rear suspension, but that was common on all MQB cars (Golf was all the same) and it was dealt with by some bulletins that were issued by VW. Early 2014 models also had a few rattles which according to owners were sorted on the coming MY15 and MY16 models. Was your test-drive a long time ago maybe? Other than that it is always possible to get in a bad car I suppose but reading through several forums, the feedback I get is that there are no such issues in the majority of owners. I guess I'll have to see for myself if I do order one in the end... 

 

 

 

Really that is why you can buy a 15 Plate Leon Cupra ST 280 with under 1,000 miles for under £22,000, 

or a 65 Plate with under 100 miles for £25,000 or less.

 

They are a performance bargain,

and a Depreciation disaster, which hardly matters if buying to keep a while, or long time mister.

 

 

If I am going for used I am looking for MY16 cars with both the Sub8 pack and the bucket seats on and these seem to be rarer than... well whatever it is that you say in the UK, something to do with hen's teeth?

Edited 29 March, 2016 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

There were ones for sale 'Sub 8'  280's,  At Dealerships, but then they sold.

 

Only Hens teeth because someone buying one specced up might want to keep it, and a Dealers Demonstrator sells.

Sometimes within the Trade.

They are not selling like 'Hot Cakes' as new cars to customers, so obviously they can not be plentiful as used cars.

Well not in the UK.

But then Seat UK will keep First Registering enough each quarter so as they do not look like a sales disaster.

 

If the Dealers Get in 290 Demonstrators then they will be selling them in a few months obviously.

 

They are nice, i have thrashed a few, they can be made to rattle, they can be made to jump if you hit a yump fast enough.

You got to love Demonstrators, you might not want one that i borrowed though.

Edited 29 March, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Bogwoppit]

 

My biggest dilemma right now is whether I'll go for the 5door which I like and is an improvement in terms of space (although not a huge one as the ST) or the ST to try and make it look like I did it for the family  :p   Heart says 5d, mind says ST...  Spending my time watching photos and videos to try and make a decision...

 

 

The ST is only 45kg heavier than the 5 door, so it hopefully won't blunt the power/weight ratio too much, but the 5 door is better looking.

 

I bought a MY16 Leon ST (an FR, not a Cupra :( ) and for the difference in price and weight it made more sense for us, also with 2 children the 5 door boot was too small.

So far, 7 months in, there are no rattles or any problems with the car, it seems just as well screwed together as the MK2 Octavia we had before.

 

A few people on seatcupra.net have had rattle problems but these seem to be on the early cars.

Edited 29 March, 2016 by Bogwoppit

[old newbie2]

There were ones for sale 'Sub 8'  280's,  At Dealerships, but then they sold.

 

Only Hens teeth because someone buying one specced up might want to keep it, and a Dealers Demonstrator sells.

Sometimes within the Trade.

They are not selling like 'Hot Cakes' as new cars to customers, so obviously they can not be plentiful as used cars.

Well not in the UK.

But then Seat UK will keep First Registering enough each quarter so as they do not look like a sales disaster.

 

If the Dealers Get in 290 Demonstrators then they will be selling them in a few months obviously.

 

They are nice, i have thrashed a few, they can be made to rattle, they can be made to jump if you hit a yump fast enough.

You got to love Demonstrators, you might not want one that i borrowed though.

Would you care to name the dealers that you have "tested" / lent you a Leon?

 

Hopefully no-one in E. London or Essex...........

 

DC

[old newbie2]

Drove the R last week finally. Power seemed the same as in the Cupra (obviously), funny how a stage 2 vRS seems just as quick up to 80-100mph. But there where the 1.4 seems to need an extra breath, the 2liter TSI just pulls effortlessly. It's so linear that you can feel how restricted it is on the factory engine map and how much more it can give. Steering, I quite liked it. A bit lazy on smaller wheel turns but sharpened when you became more rude with it. I still think the Cupra's nose was more eager to change direction but only marginally on the public road and under the conditions driven (I think driving them on track will amplify this difference I feel). Interior was nice but I expected more exclusive sport touches that I didn't find.

 

Biggest disappointment was the boot though. At 343lt it's the smallest of the 3 (S3 - 365, Cupra - 380) and one of the main reasons I have ruled it out. It honestly felt no bigger than the Fabia's boot and I will have a hard time explaining to the wife how I spent 35K on a new car that still barely fits a stroller...  Second reason is that unless seen from the back, it looks so much like any other Golf and I've wrote before I never was the hugest fan of them looks-wise. So a very good car nonetheless but not for me in the end. I found it more ordinary looking, less practical, less dynamic and around a good 5K more expensive than the Cupra which I honestly can't fault. I've tried but it seems no matter how I compare it to any other alternative it comes out on top. Residuals is still a worry but in the end, if it's such a good car as I feel so far that it will be, it won't matter very much.

 

If half of what I read about the S3 is true I don't even need to test-drive it and I'm also ****ed at the dealer which has forgot? to call back and I won't be calling him for sure. Best looks out of the 3 but the worst one in terms of driving dynamics and a price tag (in Sweden at least) that is totally unjustifiable.

 

My biggest dilemma right now is whether I'll go for the 5door which I like and is an improvement in terms of space (although not a huge one as the ST) or the ST to try and make it look like I did it for the family  :p   Heart says 5d, mind says ST...  Spending my time watching photos and videos to try and make a decision...

 

This: 

 

Or

 

 

 

In any case I'm throwing the Sub8 pack and heated bucket seats on it as I feel they really set it apart and give an idea of what this car really is about:

 

If you don't want your to be noticed, (sometimes called a "Q" car in the UK, ref. an old WW2 nickname for unmarked but armed merchant ships)

then a Golf R Estate, a Leon ST, or even a Focus ST are possible cars to choose.

 

FWIW, we are both old peoples, (pensioners even...) but we both like ordinary looking but quickish cars, it's much more fun than driving

 around in something too obvious.

 

It's why I'm unwilling to trade in my Superb for a vRS 230,  it's quite quick for a big barge but it looks like a taxi!

 

DC  

[newbie69]

 

The ST is only 45kg heavier than the 5 door, so it hopefully won't blunt the power/weight ratio too much, but the 5 door is better looking.

 

I bought a MY16 Leon ST (an FR, not a Cupra  :( ) and for the difference in price and weight it made more sense for us, also with 2 children the 5 door boot was too small.

So far, 7 months in, there are no rattles or any problems with the car, it seems just as well screwed together as the MK2 Octavia we had before.

 

A few people on seatcupra.net have had rattle problems but these seem to be on the early cars.

 

Great, another happy owner. The Octavia is much better built than the Fabia and that was exactly the build level (at least) I was after for my next car. What you say is what I've read as well. Majority reports no rattles at all. Early ones had some issues but they all seem to have been sorted with MY2016 and any odd ones were fixed by the dealers.

 

I don't worry about power/weight ratio, test-drivers say it almost doesn't feel like an estate, it's just the looks that I'm trying to become friends with. I was a long time estate hater but the Leon seems one of the most appealing estates I've seen. Still not as appealing as the 5door which I like very much. This is why I'm struggling...