GTI Clubsport after all...

[Furbytom]

Strange, I repeatedly pushed and squeezed everything in there to hear a rattle (salesman looked puzzled) and coming from a Fabia I know all the places these things can hide in but I didn't succeed. Driving through some bumpy stone roads around here, I still didn't hear a thing so I can say that it seemed quite well-built. People that have been driving them for a longer time also report that there's no rattles or other noises showing up after 30-50K miles so what can I say...

One thing I can think of is that the first models, I think MY2014, had a noisy rear suspension, but that was common on all MQB cars (Golf was all the same) and it was dealt with by some bulletins that were issued by VW. Early 2014 models also had a few rattles which according to owners were sorted on the coming MY15 and MY16 models. Was your test-drive a long time ago maybe? Other than that it is always possible to get in a bad car I suppose but reading through several forums, the feedback I get is that there are no such issues in the majority of owners. I guess I'll have to see for myself if I do order one in the end...

If I am going for used I am looking for MY16 cars with both the Sub8 pack and the bucket seats on and these seem to be rarer than... well whatever it is that you say in the UK, something to do with hen's teeth?

I can only report what I found. Not trying to be overly negative about the car and I'm sure the majority are absolutely fine from a rattle perspective as you say. Any car no matter what manufacturer can have issues. Good luck with it all and enjoy when it arrives! :-)

[newbie69]

I can only report what I found. Not trying to be overly negative about the car and I'm sure the majority are absolutely fine from a rattle perspective as you say. Any car no matter what manufacturer can have issues. Good luck with it all and enjoy when it arrives! :-)

 

No offense taken at all, after all this is still a debate thread so it's nice to hear different opinions. I could use the Seatcupra.net if all I wanted to hear was how great it is! Haven't ordered anything yet...

[newbie69]

If you don't want your to be noticed, (sometimes called a "Q" car in the UK, ref. an old WW2 nickname for unmarked but armed merchant ships)

then a Golf R Estate, a Leon ST, or even a Focus ST are possible cars to choose.

 

FWIW, we are both old peoples, (pensioners even...) but we both like ordinary looking but quickish cars, it's much more fun than driving

 around in something too obvious.

 

It's why I'm unwilling to trade in my Superb for a vRS 230,  it's quite quick for a big barge but it looks like a taxi!

 

DC  

 

The thing is all of Golf R, Leon Cupra, Audi S3 are quite special and much more expensive versions of their base brothers so even if I don't like them to scream about it, I do want some touches that give away their nature and the R had the least of them all, both outside but inside as well. I do want to feel I'm driving something a bit special and the R didn't give me this feeling. Just a personal taste obviously or maybe I'm not that old yet? Just pulling your leg...

[Ootohere]

old newbie2, 

do not worry about any car i drove, you could end up buying a Seat Media car that has toured the UK's best driving roads,

or been tracked and abused by numerous Journalists and others at Seat events.

 

It is the same with any Demonstrator or 'Management Car',  expect one that has been run in for you.

If they have a few thousand miles on them and all sounds good and rattle free, thats a better indication of how they fair than a Demonstrator with 100 miles on it and 95 Ron in the tank.

They will be rattle free or something is seriously wrong.  

[newbie69]

Just came across these two vids from EVO. I've heard excellent feedback from other journalists before but being thrown up there with those beasts and receiving that amount of praise... wow...

 

https://youtu.be/ZUhKhQP4PBo?t=975

 

https://youtu.be/Wfe0oCSpQJA?t=296

 

 

[kenny]

I reckon you should go to another dealer and drive the S3 too I fail to believe you will be disappointed unless you are after a track car

[old newbie2]

old newbie2, 

do not worry about any car i drove, you could end up buying a Seat Media car that has toured the UK's best driving roads,

or been tracked and abused by numerous Journalists and others at Seat events.

 

It is the same with any Demonstrator or 'Management Car',  expect one that has been run in for you.

If they have a few thousand miles on them and all sounds good and rattle free, thats a better indication of how they fair than a Demonstrator with 100 miles on it and 95 Ron in the tank.

They will be rattle free or something is seriously wrong.  

I'm sure that you are correct, I've owned two Management Role Mondeo's & my current Superb is an Ex Skoda Management car, never had any

real problems.

 

Not so sure re. dealer demo's or Ex Press Fleet cars (OU or OY plates on VAG cars), they are sometimes treated quite badly.

 

DC 

[newbie69]

I reckon you should go to another dealer and drive the S3 too I fail to believe you will be disappointed unless you are after a track car

 

I guess I could but I've read so much already from all sorts of different sources, journalists, owners, people I know and they all come to the same conclusion about the lifeless steering and the compromised suspension so I guess I would have to try very hard to not feel that myself. The S3 also, although not very pricier as a base model turns out to be significantly more expensive in the end because of the poor standard equipment over here and the smallest discount offered, almost 8-10K more than the other competitors. And really, other than the looks it can not be justified anywhere else.

[Ootohere]

Maybe do not cut your nose of to spite your face. The S3 Sportback is as brilliant as the saloon. They are as good if not better than a Gof R for some. I prefer the S3 to the RS3 to get a discreet move on with

Does the job for a fat bloke that is not a Driving God, comfy apart from daft centre box and fastening seat belts. Nice place to be IMO.

Edited 1 April, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[kenny]

hi mate,

 

I have an S3 and have for some time. I may have a slight biased view but also try to be fair as well. I must point out my car is only ever used on roads and not tracks.

 

comparing the S3 and the R yes there are differences and the R just feels that bit more alive. but in my opinion, on the road those differences are small.

 

Cost issues for me worked that the spec of R I wanted vs the S3 is that the S3 actually worked out a cheaper deal. this would vary depending on what options were important to you.

 

the S3 is a good day to day car, its by no means an on the edge drivers car dream but its a very quick and capable car.

 

I strongly suggest you make up your own mind as we all rate cars differently to suit our own preferences.

[newbie69]

Don't disagree with any of what you say, but it seems they are completely different markets as in the UK you can find a well-specced S3 at the price of an R it seems. If that was the case here, it would make the S3 the obvious choice unless of course track use was of the highest priority, where even the R would fall short compared to a Cupra.

 

Unfortunately, as standard equipment, pricing and current offers go there is a 8-10K eur difference between a similarly specced S3 and an R, and 10-12K between a full-fat Cupra PP and a moderately specced S3. That's insane for cars with an identical drive-train and space, in my eyes at least. I went in an S3 but didn't drive it. Loved the interior sure, but then I also thought the Cupra was fine as well when I was in and drove it, felt as solid as anything else. Plus it can come "track-ready" should you want it to.

 

So in the end, thinking about what I want, what I'm paying and what I'm getting in each car doesn't really add up in favor of the S3, well at least in Sweden. I appreciate you've got to pay something extra to get 4 circles on the front and rear, but not that amount by my standards.

Edited 1 April, 2016 by newbie69

[old newbie2]

The thing is all of Golf R, Leon Cupra, Audi S3 are quite special and much more expensive versions of their base brothers so even if I don't like them to scream about it, I do want some touches that give away their nature and the R had the least of them all, both outside but inside as well. I do want to feel I'm driving something a bit special and the R didn't give me this feeling. Just a personal taste obviously or maybe I'm not that old yet? Just pulling your leg...

Legs are there to be pulled, we are too old to care...........

 

We really don't want to be noticed, 'cos there's nothing worse than an old fart driving around in a young lads dream car.

If stealth paint really existed, we'd use it, the next best option (we think) is a tasteful metallic colour, on a practical estate car

that looks as normal as possible. Much fun for us, when desired, but easy to merge back into the run of the mill traffic stream.

 

I used to enjoy my Mk 3 Mondeo V6 wagons, no show,  but plenty of go &/or a civilized drive when required!

 

Each to their own, of course.

 

DC

[kenny]

You also pay hugely for badges yes but also build quality and 4wd.

[newbie69]

You also pay hugely for badges yes but also build quality and 4wd.

 

In my opinion build quality today within the VAG group, is much closer between the "affordable" end (SEAT, Skoda) and the "premium" one (Volkswagen, Audi) than the actual prices suggest. (Golf GTI 4k more expensive than an Octavia vRS, really?) The lesser brands have gone up many levels in that aspect, whereas the "premium" ones have at most stayed where they were 20-30 years ago if not worsened. Yet prices don't reflect that by any means. I am always positively impressed when I drive a modern SEAT or Skoda and I similarly stay unimpressed by a VW or an Audi. I guess that's because the hype that I've grown up with in the 80s and 90s about the German brands in comparison to the level that SEAT or Skoda set today leave me desiring much more from VW and especially Audi for their asking price. But I mean as long as you have the majority of people think that even by today's standards, a good car is either a VW, Audi or BMW, and the SEAT or Skoda are for people that can barely afford a car, manufacturers can continue pricing their products in a similar fashion as they've done so far.

 

Back to the S3 before derailing beyond return, i just think that for the price offered here, its build quality is not that much greater than the alternatives, to be more precise: not 10K greater for sure. Oh and the 4WD. I am asked to pay more for it and in return what do I get, let's see... A heavier car that takes away 40 entire liters off the already small boot space in the Golf and the A3 and an impaired cornering performance if pushed to the limit (infamous Audi terminal understeer) because of the way this chopped down Quattro version based on Haldex instead of Torsen is built and set up in all small S models, and the RS3. What's more given the fact I haven't ever really needed 4WD to overcome physical road conditions in 20 years of driving (as well as the majority of 4WD drivers really) I would prefer an FWD with a well tuned E-VAQ and suspension instead, as found in the Cupra. I could probably live with these flaws though, but not when I have to pay that much more. Then I demand a better car in all areas.

 

Yet another plot twist (possibly):

Last night however, I had a series of long thoughts that is possible to re-set the priorities. All triggered by a car that itself does not interest me, but its manufacturer makes a model that when I first saw it, it immediately went in my top 3 of best looking modern cars, even above the S3 saloon for me, and I had forgotten all about it as I always thought it was one league above my budget. Checking the configurators though suggested otherwise (another Swedish paradox maybe? ). I won't say more for now...

Edited 1 April, 2016 by newbie69

[kenny]

Rule out the S3 now I think ur mind is made up. I'm not here to defend as we all buy what we like. Ability is part of it, design is also.

U.K. Pricing different and with deal I got our octavia vrs was very close to s3 price. Quality differs trust me I own both

You don't rate handling or 4wd of s3 so I recon you should rule it out and go with your new choice

[newbie69]

Rule out the S3 now I think ur mind is made up. I'm not here to defend as we all buy what we like. Ability is part of it, design is also.

U.K. Pricing different and with deal I got our octavia vrs was very close to s3 price. Quality differs trust me I own both

You don't rate handling or 4wd of s3 so I recon you should rule it out and go with your new choice

 

Not thought you're here to defend or anything like that. As I wrote to furbytom a few posts back, the point of this thread was to hear people's opinions not have them agree with mine (something lot of people posting in public forums tend to forget). A polite disagreement with arguments is beneficial for both sides I find, even if initially one might not seem to accept the different opinion at all. It always creates "food for thought" in my experience.

 

Price is a very crucial factor indeed regardless of budget (unless we are talking silly millionaire car buyer). If I was in the UK I might not had ruled it out yet, but here it just doesn't make any sense all things considered.

Edited 1 April, 2016 by newbie69

[kenny]

Yip that's fair mate. Audi with exception of a few models don't make drivers cars and tbh are really pricey.

You will find more rewarding cars elsewhere. Plenty gd cars out there these days just not many exciting ones I don't think

[old newbie2]

In my opinion build quality today within the VAG group, is much closer between the "affordable" end (SEAT, Skoda) and the "premium" one (Volkswagen, Audi) than the actual prices suggest. (Golf GTI 4k more expensive than an Octavia vRS, really?) The lesser brands have gone up many levels in that aspect, whereas the "premium" ones have at most stayed where they were 20-30 years ago if not worsened. Yet prices don't reflect that by any means. I am always positively impressed when I drive a modern SEAT or Skoda and I similarly stay unimpressed by a VW or an Audi. I guess that's because the hype that I've grown up with in the 80s and 90s about the German brands in comparison to the level that SEAT or Skoda set today leave me desiring much more from VW and especially Audi for their asking price. But I mean as long as you have the majority of people think that even by today's standards, a good car is either a VW, Audi or BMW, and the SEAT or Skoda are for people that can barely afford a car, manufacturers can continue pricing their products in a similar fashion as they've done so far.

 

Back to the S3 before derailing beyond return, i just think that for the price offered here, its build quality is not that much greater than the alternatives, to be more precise: not 10K greater for sure. Oh and the 4WD. I am asked to pay more for it and in return what do I get, let's see... A heavier car that takes away 40 entire liters off the already small boot space in the Golf and the A3 and an impaired cornering performance if pushed to the limit (infamous Audi terminal understeer) because of the way this chopped down Quattro version based on Haldex instead of Torsen is built and set up in all small S models, and the RS3. What's more given the fact I haven't ever really needed 4WD to overcome physical road conditions in 20 years of driving (as well as the majority of 4WD drivers really) I would prefer an FWD with a well tuned E-VAQ and suspension instead, as found in the Cupra. I could probably live with these flaws though, but not when I have to pay that much more. Then I demand a better car in all areas.

 

Yet another plot twist (possibly):

Last night however, I had a series of long thoughts that is possible to re-set the priorities. All triggered by a car that itself does not interest me, but its manufacturer makes a model that when I first saw it, it immediately went in my top 3 of best looking modern cars, even above the S3 saloon for me, and I had forgotten all about it as I always thought it was one league above my budget. Checking the configurators though suggested otherwise (another Swedish paradox maybe? ). I won't say more for now...

Ooh, you are keeping us on tenterhooks ........

 

Please reveal your new chosen chariot before I sign an order form for the wrong car...

 

Back in the real world, it is true that Skoda / Seat do sell decent products, but they are much closer to VW pricing than one might think.

Skoda have revealed this quarter's "special offers" yesterday, c/w some price increases. 

The nicely specified vRS 230 hatch that I'm considering is listing at £30k, which is pretty close to GTi Golf money, albeit it is bigger & better equipped

than the VW

 

DC.

[Ootohere]

Those with part time AWD do not have impaired cornering performance, they have improved traction in certain circumstances on certain tyres in certain conditions. Impaired cornering is a factor to think of with a Cupra /GTI / Supersport etc with the. Summer type track suitable tyres on when wet on road or track, but then so is the S / R / RS / AMG / Type R etc etc. 300 bhp and front wheel drive or even rear wheel drive alone in all round use requires it's driver to be on the ball, have the right tyres and in its self is a bit of a cornering performance restrictor. Obviously not with professional road testers that apparently are good to go using the whole road and have no need to Stay in their own lane or side of the road.....

Edited 2 April, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Ootohere]

Ps. As nice as a vRS 230 hatch might be, it is a fat hatch without much go and actually slower than what you own now.(stage 2 twincharger) What it is faster at is depreciation no doubt. Best drive one, it is not even as good as a Seat Leon Cupra 265, let alone a 280/290. Well IMO.

Edited 2 April, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[Ootohere]

Doh, my bad, mixed up buyers, I though newbie69 was considering s Octavia Taxi type VWG car

Sorry.

[vrskeith]

Once I was indecisive but reading this lot ,then I'm not sure.

Old fart who does make up his mind,well sometimes!!

[logiclee]

Those with part time AWD do not have impaired cornering performance, 

 

Unless we are comparing with AWD systems with proper vectoring like the later Evo's, Nissan GTR, new Focus RS etc. Systems that do give much improved cornering performance than full time AWD, haldex or 2wd.

 

TopGear actually described the Ford setup as game changing for cornering ability.

 

Lee

[Ootohere]

Yes, i meant 'not impaired cornering performance' compared to the FWD offerings from the Volkswagen Group.

 

As to the New Focus RS, be sure to let us hear from you once they get them to customers and you get a test drive with one.

(i take it as good as they are, they still need the right trousers on for the weather when driven on the road... tyres that is.)

Edited 2 April, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[newbie69]

Unless we are comparing with AWD systems with proper vectoring like the later Evo's, Nissan GTR, new Focus RS etc. Systems that do give much improved cornering performance than full time AWD, haldex or 2wd.

 

TopGear actually described the Ford setup as game changing for cornering ability.

 

Lee

 

Which is what I meant. The kind of AWD offered by VAG, and any Haldex based AWD in that matter is only good for providing traction on slippery roads, corner exits and putting 300+ bhp down without wheelspin. But that's as far as it goes. It does not help sport/race driving around corners as proper AWD systems with a center diff that allows for rotational differences between fronts and rears do. When you go fast around a corner, rears will engage with, at most, the same rotational speed as the fronts (50:50 ratio) which is un-natural, hence unless you back off the throttle you are only ending deeper into the ditch. Don't want to turn this into a Haldex discussion but for those interested there are many detailed threads about how the whole system works and why it does not offer the same benefits as Torsen Quattro or AWD systems with a center diff. In fact, under these conditions (probably/hopefully only met on a track), it will be worse than a FWD with a proper LSD or even an E-VAQ (e-diff) equipped vehicle which will pull you towards the inside of the corner. That was my point and the comparison I made.

Edited 2 April, 2016 by newbie69