GTI Clubsport after all...

[newbie69]

Agreed, but still cannot believe how "fluid" the Leon is around that damp track on 19" rims & "track"/road tyres....just WOW...

 

Stiffening bridge...marketing dept anyone???

 

I wouldn't mind a set of these:-

 

https://www.apracing.com/product_details/race_car/brake_calipers/touring_car_range/cp5785-billet_radi-cal-4_piston.aspx

 

Titanium pistons & billet machined monoblock ...just for laughs!!

 

Yep, told ya things have changed since the mk4 gti, didn't I? 

Edited 7 May, 2016 by newbie69

[fabdavrav]

Yep, told ya things have changed since the mk4 gti, didn't I? 

 

:p ..

 

I have driven various MK5, MK6 & MK7R but not the newer GTI diff (PP?)...so didn't expect it to be that different in all honesty.

 

Anyway & least now you can have your cake & eat it, without huge understeer, torque steer, oh there's a corner whys the car going straight on?? scenarios.... :sun:

[fabdavrav]

Had a good look at Auto express review on how VW did the Ring lap & various points on the Clubsport & S, & noticed a few things:-

 

1. State alu subframe & hub carriers, I thought it already had the alu hub carrier as it uses the "R/PP" brakes which are on alu hub carriers. Alu subframe, that's a straight common known about swap from the Audi TT as all Golf have pressed steel.
2. Better caster/camber at front, I wonder if they used the Alu lower front wishbones from the Audi TT (again known common swap) as that what they do & they have already swiped the subframe. All Golf get pressed steel.
3. No air con, but no cost option. All UK Golfs in the most basic spec get manual aircon, this car & interior pictures of track car confirm this, not even manual aircon.
4. Very basic touch screen, three buttons only down each side, not even the most basic in this country has this! As the screen is just a screen, there is no real weight savings from fitting a smaller screen than the most basic 4 button (down each side) here in UK. So I wonder if they have binned the brains/CD/SD card player in the glovebox as that is where the weight is!

So VW has really made the car more stripped out & basic compered to the most basic UK Golf, all for weight savings? Did the Seat Leon require this?..er NO!!

 

FFS VW!!!...Just give the car the brakes & tyres it deserves then it can cope with the weight, you fit decent brakes to the Leon (options) & Audi TTRS...

[Ootohere]

Handling and lightening and publicity done by Porsche employees that replaced VW Employees because they were all Tommy.

Deaf Dumb and Blind Kids that did what Prof. Dr Martin Winterkorn wanted, (the engineers engineer)

no questions asked, no suggestions given.

 

Less is more in the getting Motoring Press articles, 

and people are prepared to pay for less and more power.

 

Vorsprung Durch Tecknik

*In case we forget in this 40th Anniversary Year of the GTI. 'DAS AUTO' 'The 3 Monkeys'.

Edited 10 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[newbie69]

 

Had a good look at Auto express review on how VW did the Ring lap & various points on the Clubsport & S, & noticed a few things:-

 

1. State alu subframe & hub carriers, I thought it already had the alu hub carrier as it uses the "R/PP" brakes which are on alu hub carriers. Alu subframe, that's a straight common known about swap from the Audi TT as all Golf have pressed steel.
2. Better caster/camber at front, I wonder if they used the Alu lower front wishbones from the Audi TT (again known common swap) as that what they do & they have already swiped the subframe. All Golf get pressed steel.
3. No air con, but no cost option. All UK Golfs in the most basic spec get manual aircon, this car & interior pictures of track car confirm this, not even manual aircon.
4. Very basic touch screen, three buttons only down each side, not even the most basic in this country has this! As the screen is just a screen, there is no real weight savings from fitting a smaller screen than the most basic 4 button (down each side) here in UK. So I wonder if they have binned the brains/CD/SD card player in the glovebox as that is where the weight is!

So VW has really made the car more stripped out & basic compered to the most basic UK Golf, all for weight savings? Did the Seat Leon require this?..er NO!!

 

FFS VW!!!...Just give the car the brakes & tyres it deserves then it can cope with the weight, you fit decent brakes to the Leon (options) & Audi TTRS...

 

 

 

The SEAT is still a daily driver while the S just isn't one. Which is what makes the S purely academic really and of no actual interest for the 99,9% of buyers out there.

 

But then again, we are talking almost 9 seconds faster, not just matching the 07:58 Leon's time or dropping a second off it. I reckon a standard Clubsport should do a sub8 lap simply because of the sorted handling and much improved aero (remember what Jordi Gene - Leon Sub8 driver - said about the ST gaining more time on the Ring because of the longer aerodynamic shape of the ST compared to the SC than it lost due to extra weight). And a Clubsport is already 20kg lighter than an equivalent (3d/5d Manual/DSG) Cupra.

 

However, since it was the 7:50 time they were actually after rather than the Leon's time, they needed to provide the Clubsport with permanent R power and better brakes. Now that would create some clearly unwanted competition to the R. So the impractical solution of the S was the golden section really. As quicker as it needed to be for a sub7:50 time, yet no threat to its siblings. I mean clearly, why remove the rear seats otherwise if you do want to sell a car massively. And those 30kg off don't seem to be that impressing, the Clubsport had already been on a diet anyway. Yet with removed insulation, Clima, infotainment you make even more sure this is not going to appeal to almost anyone. The S wasn't built for a profit, but for very specific reasons.

 

Good news though is if you're after absolute track performance from your daily driver, release the full 300+ ps engine potential of the Clubsport and give it a proper big brake kit and you're done. The rest is there already. 

Edited 10 May, 2016 by newbie69

[fabdavrav]

Had another good look at the internal pics of the "ring" Clubsport (S) & managed to identify the stereo & I was correct.

 

VW have ditched the brains in the glovebox as if you look carefully under the left of the screen there is an SD card slot, the only one I can find is item number 3:-

 

http://vagpart.com/vw/golf-variant-4motion-golf-eu-2013-golf-au-d-000-001-03500-display-and-control-unit/

 

  5G0035885 display and control panel with; 'touchscreen', radio,; sd card reader and; aux-in socket; display:; black/white; 'COMPOSITION; TOUCH'; PR-EC2+I8A

 

This page just shows screens that do not require the glove box units as they are on separate pages. So more basic than any VW Golf in UK & a black & white screen, & smaller then the 5.8" Composition screen

 

All for weight savings, yet they still insist on fitting heavy cast iron fist brake callipers (increased unsprung weight) to this "stripped out/hardcore" racer.....ricer more like...

 

Sorry, but come on VW you bunch of idiots shoot the marketing men, this version will not sell many & I doubt those who are interested will not opt for this as it is missing certain "motorsports" items. I recon the non "S" will sell out because with a simple remap it will perform as well yet retain all the basic comforts & you can order the fancy seats on the standard Clubsport.

 

Ps when anyone gets there new Clubsport load up some pics of the underside, I'd love to see if they have fitted any of the under body aero that I have fitted to my car, There should be about 4 panels (max) more than a standard GTI.

 

VW have the parts to make very good cars, but consistently only bother to get it 75% right, the devil is in the detail, as always.

Edited 11 May, 2016 by fabdavrav

[Ootohere]

I bet you real cash money that they sell all they produce and if not just to paying customers but to themselves as they usually do.

They will not be shown to have a sales disaster.

VWG manipulate numbers of Produced, Delivered,Sold, Registered and re-sold because they first registered cars they own, 

and then sold again to themselves.

Many Manufacturers do it, VW, Audi are the masters at it.

 

Like when Skoda say they Delivered 1 Million Vehicles last year, they then mix 'Deliver, sell, first register and buyers bought.

[newbie69]

Ps when anyone gets there new Clubsport load up some pics of the underside, I'd love to see if they have fitted any of the under body aero that I have fitted to my car, There should be about 4 panels (max) more than a standard GTI.

 

VW have the parts to make very good cars, but consistently only bother to get it 75% right, the devil is in the detail, as always.

 

I'll do when I get mine. Today I got the preliminary build date and it's supposed to be beginning of August, meaning delivery maybe start/mid September, still too damn long...

 

The nice thing I got asked then was: "What is your jacket size?" I said why? Salesman said well it's for preparation of a 2-day track event you're being offered as part of your Clubsport purchase. So apparently VW Sweden is organizing this in collaboration with some motorsports company/team and it will be offered to every Clubsport buyer. They are supposed to take us to a track for two days where there's going to be theoretical education about fast driving, practice with instructors and finally sessions in your own car. Well, I couldn't ask for anything better to wrap up the package really! 

[old newbie2]

Had another good look at the internal pics of the "ring" Clubsport (S) & managed to identify the stereo & I was correct.

 

VW have ditched the brains in the glovebox as if you look carefully under the left of the screen there is an SD card slot, the only one I can find is item number 3:-

 

http://vagpart.com/vw/golf-variant-4motion-golf-eu-2013-golf-au-d-000-001-03500-display-and-control-unit/

 

  5G0035885 display and control panel with; 'touchscreen', radio,; sd card reader and; aux-in socket; display:; black/white; 'COMPOSITION; TOUCH'; PR-EC2+I8A

 

This page just shows screens that do not require the glove box units as they are on separate pages. So more basic than any VW Golf in UK & a black & white screen, & smaller then the 5.8" Composition screen

 

All for weight savings, yet they still insist on fitting heavy cast iron fist brake callipers (increased unsprung weight) to this "stripped out/hardcore" racer.....ricer more like...

 

Sorry, but come on VW you bunch of idiots shoot the marketing men, this version will not sell many & I doubt those who are interested will not opt for this as it is missing certain "motorsports" items. I recon the non "S" will sell out because with a simple remap it will perform as well yet retain all the basic comforts & you can order the fancy seats on the standard Clubsport.

 

Ps when anyone gets there new Clubsport load up some pics of the underside, I'd love to see if they have fitted any of the under body aero that I have fitted to my car, There should be about 4 panels (max) more than a standard GTI.

 

VW have the parts to make very good cars, but consistently only bother to get it 75% right, the devil is in the detail, as always.

What aero mods have you fitted to your estate & why? 

't is a serious question, not that we've reached any great speeds as yet.

[fabdavrav]

What aero mods have you fitted to your estate & why? 

't is a serious question, not that we've reached any great speeds as yet.

 

Full size cover under tray for engine bay area, cover for front half section of exhaust tunnel, cover for back section of exhaust by fuel tank, full width cover (from Passat) for rear axle, also rear window fins from Bluemotion/GTD/R.

 

The main reasons to for aero/dirt protection. The front engine bay cover I fitted the GRP version skidtray & not the thin aero cover from the diesel engine Golf. The biggest difference even at low speeds was the full width Passat rear axle cover. I had problems with the inside rear lifting when going around certain off camber corners as the air turbulence was pushing the bodywork up away from the dampers which unsettled the rear. The reason, big void (for Haldex) , fit cover no more problems around the same corner & the rear is way more planted than before.

 

The flatter/smoother the underside the better for stability & fuel economy, plenty on the web about racing cars, supercars etc with smooth undertrays etc...

[Ootohere]

Yes there is Plenty on Racing Cars and undersides and down force.

 

Plenty on Eco models / Greenlines etc and undertrays and economy and better through the air, and less traction, 

less down force, narrower tyres, better economy, crap road grip / traction.

(They will be doing 60 or 70 mph, maybe even 80 or 100 mph on the road just like a kitted up Golf,

a heavy golf at that without adding more tat to weigh it down, stop it lifting on its suspension.)

 

Is a Greenline with wider tyres the same as a model that has no smoothed out underside more stable?

Edited 11 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[fabdavrav]

Yes there is Plenty on Racing Cars and undersides and down force.

 

Plenty on Eco models / Greenlines etc and undertrays and economy and better through the air, and less traction, 

less down force, narrower tyres, better economy, crap road grip / traction.

 

Is a Greenline with wider tyres the same as a model that has no smoothed out underside more stable?

 

Err no as most don't have all the undertrays that I have fitted.....not even the bluemotions or the Alltracks.....same applies for the Skoda versions.

 

The rear axle cover is from the Passat which happens to fit perfectly to the Golf estate, but I figured it out myself as ETKA does not show it as suitable. The front full tray (reinforced) is a factory fit option in Germany & France, but not here because VWUK idiots. The other trays are Audi A3 parts, but ETKA does show on some Golf pages.

 

For the rear axle cover a MK7 hatch would have to use a MK6 rear axle tray cover due to the exhaust routing making the Passant version a no go. I can PM a link to the required info to serious people.

Edited 11 May, 2016 by fabdavrav

[Ootohere]

Nice.

So now what does your Golf Estate weigh unladen.

I reckon you are not lacking in stability, just maybe bhp / torque.  But enough anyway to stay shiny side up on the road.

[fabdavrav]

Nice.

So now what does your Golf Estate weigh unladen.

I reckon you are not lacking in stability, just maybe bhp / torque.  But enough anyway to stay shiny side up on the road.

 

No idea on weight as I have added weight with bigger battery & undertrays & taken weight of with lighter alloys.

 

PS the R estates, reviewers state handles better than hatch as more stable & the extra 80kg over the rear axle. Also roof & underside 1ft longer to smooth air flow also the roof rails help as air guides ....

[Ootohere]

As we know VW, Audi, Skoda , Seat often show the better performance and economy of an Estate over a Hatch or Saloon.

Sometimes because the Estate is more expensive and the VW way is Expensive is better.

 

With the Mk2 Fabia vRS all in the press and dealerships told you the EState was faster than the Hatch and 5kg lighter.

Odd because it was 9 3/4" Longer, and actually heavier, but Skoda put 25kg Ballast on the rear of the Hatch so they were the same VED and the same as the Seat with the same engine.

They Manufactured weights, (25kg worth to bolt on the rear crash bar.) fitted the spare wheel as standard & sand bagged a car rather than fitting the correct rear springs and dampers and allowing the front traction available and the lower road tax than the more expensive sister cars.

VORSPRUNG DURCH TECHNIK

The Polo with the same engine which was heavier was a lower VED, as was the A1, but had lower official weights until corrected.

Then the still heavier Seat had a revision, same engine as the Skoda got, but a lower VED class.

 

Kidology often on the story of faster better handling estates, but sometimes they are, 

not so sure the longer roof often makes them more economical though.

Edited 11 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[fabdavrav]

 

not so sure the longer roof often makes them more economical though.

 

aero..allows the air flow to exit the car more smoothly, same with underneath a longer smoother underside helps give the airflow more time/distance to stabilise so it exits the rear of the car more smoothly....& this makes a difference on the Golf hatch/estate as the rear axle is right at the rear on the hatch (unlike Octavia) so no body to smooth it....

 

This is why some Lemans cars & various other have "long tail" versions....

[Ootohere]

Yes we know the theory and the practice and the dirty rear hatch or back windows and the aero fins taped onto Golfs, Toyota Iq's etc.

 

Then you drive in a line of traffic and it counts for not much, then you are going slower, cross and tail winds.

Then the rain is coming off the roads, washing around your wheel wells etc and going in the gaps in the under covers.

 

Mk7 Golfs are not at the cutting edge of cutting through the air really are they, 

just fat lumps often, and underpowered.

 

Anyway, seeing as this is the Mk7 Golf R thread no need to worry, nice power, nice handling, ****e economy.

[fabdavrav]

Yes we know the theory and the practice and the dirty rear hatch or back windows and the aero fins taped onto Golfs, Toyota Iq's etc.

 

Then you drive in a line of traffic and it counts for not much, then you are going slower, cross and tail winds.

Then the rain is coming off the roads, washing around your wheel wells etc and going in the gaps in the under covers.

 

Mk7 Golfs are not at the cutting edge of cutting through the air really are they, 

just fat lumps often, and underpowered.

 

Anyway, seeing as this is the Mk7 Golf R thread no need to worry, nice power, nice handling, ****e economy.

 

 

Was not commenting/referring on the "aero keeps the rear window clean"...just the facts of longer tails on cars helps smooth the air flow of the car before it exits the cars trailing edge...which is why I'd like to see the underside of the Clubsport & "S" to see what existing panels in the VAG parts bin they have used to balance out the big high rise spoiler..

 

By the way this is the Golf Clubsport thread....

[Ootohere]

Doh, i realised just now it is the Clubsport thread.

So all about the Aero & lighter models, and then the lighter still Clubsport S ones.

 

Not about Estates or the likes, 

but VW can do one of those hopefully, after all they will be longer and faster.

 

Maybe Skoda will be allowed to do some Road Versions of these with a 1.5 TSI.

Edited 11 May, 2016 by GoneOffSKi

[fabdavrav]

Doh, i realised just now it is the Clubsport thread.

So all about the Aero & lighter models, and then the lighter still Clubsport S ones.

 

Not about Estates or the likes, 

but VW can do one of those hopefully, after all they will be longer and faster.

 

Maybe Skoda will be allowed to do some Road Versions of these with a 1.5 TSI.

 

 I liked the Fabia combi concept.........with a decent engine I would buy......

 

The Clubsport S could be lighter if they ditched the cast iron brake callipers & fitted the Seat Leon or Audi TTRS proper race callipers..& it would improve the steering feel & handling as this is unsprung weight which you want to reduce in a "race/track" car.

 

Also an estate version (they make a GTD estate) would not need the big rear high rise wing for added downforce as the roof is longer which holds the rear down, plus you have the extra weight of the rear itself.

 

EDIT:-

 

I notice on the UK configurator that you can spec a tow hitch for the Clubsport (non S) version, the seats are not heated, but the leather has this option & the fancy bucket seats are heated as standard, so why no standard GTI seats heated option then??

Edited 11 May, 2016 by fabdavrav

[newbie69]

By the way this is the Golf Clubsport thread....

 

 

Doh, i realised just now it is the Clubsport thread.

 

You two Scottish stop spamming this fine Clubsport thread all-right!  

Edited 11 May, 2016 by newbie69

[Ootohere]

Sorry,

There is a VW Golf Clubsport thread or 2.

 

This was your Seat Leon Cupra, BMW thread remember, then you changed the title.  Remember.

[fabdavrav]

You two Scottish stop spamming this fine Clubsport thread all-right!  

 

It not us you need to watch out ....

 

have you seen the Golf R thread??..............

[newbie69]

Sorry,

There is a VW Golf Clubsport thread or 2.

 

This was your Seat Leon Cupra, BMW thread remember, then you changed the title.  Remember.

 

Remotely... But now it's all about my new love anyway 

 

 

It not us you need to watch out ....

 

have you seen the Golf R thread??..............

 

[pipsyp]

The Clubsport S is rather akin to a Golf version of the Porsche GT3 RS....

Id wager it will set the path for the Mk8 GTI having that kind of stock power, with the next R having power levels approaching 400hp. I wouldnt be entirely surprised if the next R doesnt adopt the Audi 2.5 5 pot as just launched in the new TTRS.

Nothing really that wrong with a Composition Touch stereo and no AC....I dont think the S is really intended as a daily drive its a hardcore trackday car that can be used on the road...Megane R26R style.