So Honda Type R quicker than GTI Clubsport at Llandow circuit. Check out Autoexpress video posted today but not by me.

A spanking in the dry,not sure of tyre spec. Clubsport with DSG and not manual to manual.

Edited 28 May, 201610 yr by vrskeith

So Honda Type R quicker than GTI Clubsport at Llandow circuit. Check out Autoexpress video posted today but not by me.

A spanking in the dry,not sure of tyre spec. Clubsport with DSG and not manual to manual.

 

How could it possibly be different?  Let alone the nearly 50ps and 50Nm that the Type-R has as stock, and the Brembo brakes, these would be enough to give it a clear win. But on top of it Honda comes with race tyres as standard, while Autoexpress (deliberately or out of ignorance) chose a Clubsport with the standard 18" Quarantas that come with Bridgestones or whatever average tyre VW put on them (not semi-slicks though), when in fact there is the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2 factory option which everyone that drove the Cupra or the Clubsport praised as an excellent track tyre that made a great difference to the way the car drove. Yet another un-biased Autoexpress Clubsport test   :clap:

Actually VW the 2nd biggest car manufacturer in the world at this time last year provide media cars to 

Auto Express, Auto Car, Top Gear, EVO and what ever journalists they let drive the new VW Golf GTI Clubsport in left hand drive in the UK.

 

So that will be VW Germany or VW UK Importers that choose what people got to drive, 

unless some private individual already has a VW Golf GTI Clubsport that they let motoring & other journalists and car reviewers drive.

 

Edited 28 May, 201610 yr by GoneOffSKi

Actually VW the 2nd biggest car manufacturer in the world at this time last year provide media cars to 

Auto Express, Auto Car, Top Gear, EVO and what ever journalists they let drive the new VW Golf GTI Clubsport in left hand drive in the UK.

 

So that will be VW Germany or VW UK Importers that choose what people got to drive, 

unless some private individual already has a VW Golf GTI Clubsport that they let motoring & other journalists and car reviewers drive.

 

 

George, as an end customer I don't care for absolutely any of that. What I know is that the car is indeed sold with track tyres as an option, not talking aftermarket fitment that's an OEM available spec for anyone wanting to be on a circuit often so if you're doing a track review and putting it up against another car that's already on such tyres, try to get the same or don't bother at all. Tyres are probably the number one factor on a track and even more so on FWD cars.

 

Not only they didn't get one with the Michelins, that may happen, but what is clearly sneaky is that there is no mention anywhere in the video that the Type-R is on race/track tyres but the Clubsport not. Having driven the otherwise poor-handling vRS with Federals on a track I can testify they make a whole world of difference in grip, braking, line control and eventually absolute pace.

 

Would the Clubsport be quicker than the Type-R with the proper tyres on? Probably not as the artificial power deficit VW decided to give it from factory and the Type-R's brakes would be still enough to give it the upper hand, but it would be much closer for sure.

Edited 28 May, 201610 yr by newbie69

So both the above cars at approximately the same retail price for a 5dr version,then perhaps VW should be selling the GTI Clubsport with super rubber on 19" as standard !

Edited 28 May, 201610 yr by vrskeith

So at approximately the same retail price for a 5dr version,then perhaps VW should be selling the GTI Clubsport with super rubber on 19" as standard !

 

Same retail price as?

 

The only cars that come with track tyres as standard besides exotics and supercars are "built-for-track" models or variants like the Megane RS Trophy and the Civic Type-R. Every other daily-er car will only be fortunate enough to get them as an option, at an extra price, which is good. Same with the Cupra which is a track-capable daily car as well, comes with average Bridgestones as standard unless you pay for the Sub8 pack.

 

And the simple reason is that for any not track-exclusive car, not every buyer wants to bear the extra cost that comes with those tyres. Not only they wear out much faster than ordinary "sport" tyres but as they usually come together with bigger wheels this increases the tyre costs for the entire ownership. Many like a fun to drive focused car but not to the point of paying  £1000 more on tyres every second year for a couple of seconds off a track.

Edited 28 May, 201610 yr by newbie69

As I have said before VW messed up the spec of the Clubsport & "S" considering the specs of the other MQB based VAG cars. Also considering what VAG does to the top end 2WD Lambos & Porsche 911 cars which can be more nuts that the 4wd versions...VAG played internal politics with the Golf Clubsport & "S".

 

Here my take on how to look at them:-

 

GTI Clubsport "S";-

Track focused two seat car like other branded ones. But spend extra money reto-fitting the "sub 8" pack (or similar) from the Seat Leon, also get the car mapped to fully unleash the restricted engine as the same engine in the "R" can be easily tuned, also fit a lithium race battery & fire extinguisher...Result is a car with best stopping & same power as "R", but with a light kerb weigh, & would really thrash all other 2wd hot hatches around any circuit. Also drop the "GTI" part of the name & just leave it at the Golf Clubsport & I know Porsche own the rights, but they are in VAG.

 

Clubsport;-

Daily driver four seat. Basically treat it like the best MK7 GTI with latent ompf. Remember the MK5 edition 30 & the Pirelli edition? They had a small amount of extra power over the standard GTi, but people found out that they in fact had a heavily de-tuned more powerful Audi engine. One simple re-map later & "hold on to your hats"!!!

 

 

As I have said before VW messed up the spec of the Clubsport & "S" considering the specs of the other MQB based VAG cars. Also considering what VAG does to the top end 2WD Lambos & Porsche 911 cars which can be more nuts that the 4wd versions...VAG played internal politics with the Golf Clubsport & "S".

 

Here my take on how to look at them:-

 

GTI Clubsport "S";-

Track focused two seat car like other branded ones. But spend extra money reto-fitting the "sub 8" pack (or similar) from the Seat Leon, also get the car mapped to fully unleash the restricted engine as the same engine in the "R" can be easily tuned, also fit a lithium race battery & fire extinguisher...Result is a car with best stopping & same power as "R", but with a light kerb weigh, & would really thrash all other 2wd hot hatches around any circuit. Also drop the "GTI" part of the name & just leave it at the Golf Clubsport & I know Porsche own the rights, but they are in VAG.

 

Clubsport;-

Daily driver four seat. Basically treat it like the best MK7 GTI with latent ompf. Remember the MK5 edition 30 & the Pirelli edition? They had a small amount of extra power over the standard GTi, but people found out that they in fact had a heavily de-tuned more powerful Audi engine. One simple re-map later & "hold on to your hats"!!!

 

 What you say about the S can be equally applied to the standard Clubsport though given how minor the differences are between them, all the bits are there but deliberately detuned:

 

Same engine mapped to 265ps on the CS but 310 on the S. Same E-VAQ lsd diff, but reported to lock a bit slower on the standard Clubsport compared to Cupra (and S presumably), very interested in messing with it once I get my hands on it, Haldex units were always tune-friendly. Then the important mechanical bits like chassis and steering rack are thankfully shared between the two and the deliberately softer Nurburgring mode on the S will probably not be of much use on good tarmac or a race-track. Sounds like a day's work with computers to turn the Clubsport into an S.

 

100% same then? No, all the above leaves us still with 30kg off the S and a different sub-frame? And lighter hub carriers? That might be around 0.5sec difference around a 2min track in all seriousness but does anyone think these alone are worth your rear seats?  Or the reduced sound insulation? Or the lesser infotainment and typical Golf luxuries? Heck, no. I'll take the nice balanced and grippy chassis and I'll sort out the software nonsense myself thank you!

Edited 29 May, 201610 yr by newbie69

Some people want to Buy a new car ready to go on road or track and have a Manufacturers Warranty.

Or lease a car and have a manufacturers warranty and then use the car on road and track and return it.

 

If someone wants to pay £30,000 plus and then have to Remap and run without a manufacturers warranty then the world is their oyster.

The VWG will take the money and be perfectly happy to then wash their hands of you.

 

BMW were even trying to wash their hands of BMW owners taking Track Ready Ultimate Driving machines on a track.

They soon realised they were being stupid or some employees were.

 

Now that Seat, VW & Audi make such a big deal of Track ability and use Tracks to big up the cars before even putting them 

on sale you should feel safe using the products they sell as Sporty and Track ready as having a valid warranty.

Including all the Media cars they punt at some point in the trade as 'Management Cars'.

Some people want to Buy a new car ready to go on road or track and have a Manufacturers Warranty.

Or lease a car and have a manufacturers warranty and then use the car on road and track and return it.

 

If someone wants to pay £30,000 plus and then have to Remap and run without a manufacturers warranty then the world is their oyster.

The VWG will take the money and be perfectly happy to then wash their hands of you.

 

BMW were even trying to wash their hands of BMW owners taking Track Ready Ultimate Driving machines on a track.

They soon realised they were being stupid or some employees were.

 

Now that Seat, VW & Audi make such a big deal of Track ability and use Tracks to big up the cars before even putting them 

on sale you should feel safe using the products they sell as Sporty and Track ready as having a valid warranty.

Including all the Media cars they punt at some point in the trade as 'Management Cars'.

 

 

But the car is indeed more than capable on the track and on the road as it is. VW Sweden is actually organising a 2-day track event for Clubsport owners with theory and driving instructors in order to drive and learn better their cars (as they come from factory) on a circuit. Not to mention that aside from those niggles that we already talked about, the car in my eyes is perfect in every other equally important aspect (build quality, looks, feel) which is something I wasn't able to found elsewhere.

 

The issue, at least for me lies with deliberately hindered potential which is a matter of marketing decisions when in fact the hardware is all there. I'd be much more reluctant to remap an already beefed up to 265ps GTI engine than I am in releasing the typical R engine potential in the Clubsport. Same for adjusting the e-vaq diff and XDS to my like. Replacing springs, dampers, bushes, adding exhausts that's all the stuff that I wanted to avoid and am very happy that I 'll be able to do so. The only couple of things I am considering to do, don't even classify as modding in my eyes.

 

Of course it would be nice to have the Clubsport with the full 300ps all the time, and as an aggressive diff as found in the Cupra but we all know such a car wouldn't be allowed to make it out of the factory for several reasons. So in way I'm rather happy that VW decided to serve the Clubsport with the right hardware that merely requires a bit of software intervention to work to its full potential, instead of going the way of putting lesser components that would require major work and bucks to upgrade in order to be on top if its class. Just look how every GTI owner drools over the bigger R/Clubsport IS38 turbo in the forums, or how much discussion is done over suspension upgrades.

Edited 29 May, 201610 yr by newbie69

It looks like Renault are going to top trump the other manufacturers with the 2.0 Litre Manual Clio as far as actual fwd Hot Hatches

but possibly expensive ones.

These will likely be for Homologation reasons for Clio Cup or other Motorsports.

Just did a comparison for a fully-specced Clubsport like mine between VW Sweden, UK, Germany, France and Italy which I believe are EU's bigger markets (minus Sweden lol) and the results were shocking:

 

UK - £37,500

Italy - £36,500

Germany - £33,700

 

France was immediately out of competition as for some bizarre reason the car only comes with the ugly Brescias (worst wheels offered on the car by far), no other wheel option period AND to make it worse, you can't spec a 5-door WITH bucket seats ?!?!? WTF... And the price was already immense starting at around 35K without any extras....

 

 

Sweden £32,200 (that's with almost every possible extra thrown at it)  mainly because of the promo selling it at standard GTI price I think,  on top of which I managed to get another 2K off whereas in most markets discounts are not offered as "special model, limited production" blah blah. I'm starting to thing I might have got quite a re-sale bargain, with possibly exporting interest as well, hmmm...

Currently via Orangewheels discounter, I can purchase a very high spec 5dr manual Golf R Hatch( RRP approx. £39k) for £32.5k. Similar spec for GTI Clubsport in UK £38k and no discount.

R can be purchased via PCP at approx 4.5% APR.

Currently via Orangewheels discounter, I can purchase a very high spec 5dr manual Golf R Hatch( RRP approx. £39k) for £32.5k. Similar spec for GTI Clubsport in UK £38k and no discount.

R can be purchased via PCP at approx 4.5% APR.

 

The "problem" for the Clubsport in the UK from what I can tell is that VW UK offers probably the lowest Golf R price in Europe and on top of that there are some crazy deals on the Rs as well. An R in Sweden sells for slightly more but there's nowhere near those discounts people are quoting in the UK so it ends up being around £5K more expensive than an equivalent UK R. My Clubsport was actually 6K cheaper than a similarly equipped R here. And I believe this is more or less the case in other major EU markets. Strangely VW UK decided to price the Clubsport too close to the R (£600) but no discount on it, so it ends up being much more expensive than an R unless you get a very basic car (no Bi-Xenon, no buckets - what's the point?!- no Discover Pro - no DCC ride)

 

Sure the Clubsport is more special, and more driving focused and all but for £5K it's quite a hard pill to swallow. I assume it will be very very few that prioritize driving involvement and looks so high as to actually order one of the 1000 allocated for the UK. Which limit is also strange as I haven't heard of a max number of allocated cars to be the case in any other market, not in Sweden at least where orders will be accepted "as long as VW keeps making them" which is I think going to be until they shift to the mk8 production line.

 

Sounds a bit sneaky from VW UK doesn't it? "Let's price this special edition unreasonably high and to make sure we sell them apply a max number of allocated cars to 1000, that should ensure buying desire of at least 1000 buyers in the UK, job done"

Edited 2 June, 201610 yr by newbie69

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/volkswagen-news/watch-auto-express-thrash-the-golf-gti-clubsport-s-around-the-nurburgring/

Impressive to be the new FWD record holder round the ring but I always think couldn't you get a normal Octavia vRS close to this? Quaife diff, Michelin Cup Tyres, Bilstein Coilovers, K04 turbo and the bits to get it up to 360bhp. Lots of us have tuned Octy's anyway so it's not that much of a stretch to do this for an awful lot less

Edited 14 June, 20169 yr by MartynVRS

http://www.vwvortex.com/news/volkswagen-news/watch-auto-express-thrash-the-golf-gti-clubsport-s-around-the-nurburgring/

Impressive to be the new FWD record holder round the ring but I always think couldn't you get a normal Octavia vRS close to this? Quaife diff, Michelin Cup Tyres, Bilstein Coilovers, K04 turbo and the bits to get it up to 360bhp. Lots of us have tuned Octy's anyway so it's not that much of a stretch to do this for an awful lot less

 

I've actually just jumped out of a situation similar to what you describe so I think you give me the perfect excuse to do a small write-up on that.

 

So, If for some reason your goal was to go round the ring just as fast you could certainly make it with an Octavia (or even a vRS Fabia).

 

However I can already see so many issues with such a project. From my experience anything past a stage 1 needs significant amount of money that you are never going to get back once resale comes. I will compare new cars here to make the comparison more realistic like go out and buy A or buy B. I see that the 230ps Octavia starts at  £26580 and you'd probably want to get that version that comes with the e-vaq diff instead of the 220ps which is 2K cheaper but will require you to fork out for an aftermarket diff. So from that point we have to start adding for a stage 3: - K04 turbo - Intercooler - turbo back exhaust - induction - BOV/DV that's roughly 4K and we haven't even touched suspension: Coilovers, bushes, brakes?  and we've reached the Clubsport's price. Then I can see that the Octavia is around 80-100kg heavier and will surely not have an optimised suspension geometry for the new dynamics of the car, and that might be something hard to achieve, but let's say that the extra bhp might make up for it.

 

What would the resale price of such a car be in 3-5 years even if you removed most of the aftermarket parts and sold them separately? Only a fraction of a Clubsport's price and you've already paid nearly a Clubsport in total. People tend to forget part of the upgrade costs especially labour ones (I know I did) when they want to make the money math look right.

 

I've not mentioned the endless hours you'd have to spent in garages/workshops, the worrying of whether all was put together well, the testing, the inevitable problem fixing and so on which can not be directly quantified but needs taking into serious account.

 

And also the fact that any stage 3+ car (with serious suspension mods) rattles more, makes definitely more noise and all sorts of funny sounds, and in general has lost a great part of its original comfort and driveability. Looking at advertised power gains and stage 2-3 packs is nice but only one that has lived with such a car can say at what price  (not £££) this comes. Most of the above was the reason I decided to sell the Fabia just before I go for a BT and BBK as the car was slowly becoming too one-dimensional. A bit harder because of the suspension. A bit more rattles because of harder bushes, engine mounts, a lot more noisy because of the exhaust system, a lot less linear in power delivery and it was no longer the car I'd bought, everyone coming for a ride was noticing (and mentioning) that.

 

I mean surely if tuning is a big hobby for someone I can see such a project as the perfect excuse to go for it, but in the end it does not make much financial sense (which supposedly was the main reason behind such a decision) nor will it end anywhere near an all-round package as the stock car was or the target car (in this case a Clubsport) is.

Edited 15 June, 20169 yr by newbie69

I've actually just jumped out of a situation similar to what you describe so I think you give me the perfect excuse to do a small write-up on that.

 

So, If for some reason your goal was to go round the ring just as fast you could certainly make it with an Octavia (or even a vRS Fabia).

 

However I can already see so many issues with such a project. From my experience anything past a stage 1 needs significant amount of money that you are never going to get back once resale comes. I will compare new cars here to make the comparison more realistic like go out and buy A or buy B. I see that the 230ps Octavia starts at  £26580 and you'd probably want to get that version that comes with the e-vaq diff instead of the 220ps which is 2K cheaper but will require you to fork out for an aftermarket diff. So from that point we have to start adding for a stage 3: - K04 turbo - Intercooler - turbo back exhaust - induction - BOV/DV that's roughly 4K and we haven't even touched suspension: Coilovers, bushes, brakes?  and we've reached the Clubsport's price. Then I can see that the Octavia is around 80-100kg heavier and will surely not have an optimised suspension geometry for the new dynamics of the car, and that might be something hard to achieve, but let's say that the extra bhp might make up for it.

 

What would the resale price of such a car be in 3-5 years even if you removed most of the aftermarket parts and sold them separately? Only a fraction of a Clubsport's price and you've already paid nearly a Clubsport in total. People tend to forget part of the upgrade costs especially labour ones (I know I did) when they want to make the money math look right.

 

I've not mentioned the endless hours you'd have to spent in garages/workshops, the worrying of whether all was put together well, the testing, the inevitable problem fixing and so on which can not be directly quantified but needs taking into serious account.

 

And also the fact that any stage 3+ car (with serious suspension mods) rattles more, makes definitely more noise and all sorts of funny sounds, and in general has lost a great part of its original comfort and driveability. Looking at advertised power gains and stage 2-3 packs is nice but only one that has lived with such a car can say at what price  (not £££) this comes. Most of the above was the reason I decided to sell the Fabia just before I go for a BT and BBK as the car was slowly becoming too one-dimensional. A bit harder because of the suspension. A bit more rattles because of harder bushes, engine mounts, a lot more noisy because of the exhaust system, a lot less linear in power delivery and it was no longer the car I'd bought, everyone coming for a ride was noticing (and mentioning) that.

 

I mean surely if tuning is a big hobby for someone I can see such a project as the perfect excuse to go for it, but in the end it does not make much financial sense (which supposedly was the main reason behind such a decision) nor will it end anywhere near an all-round package as the stock car was or the target car (in this case a Clubsport) is.

Well that's one way to take the fun out of that....

Most people who own Octy's here are well used now. Mine is Mk2 Facelift from 2009, has a fair amount of bits on it already from the previous owner and would only need turbo and a diff to be similar. That can be done for about £1k, spend another £2k on a better 4 pot brake setup, braided lines, stiffen it in certain places and I think it would be a pretty good, fast road car which the Clubsport is. It's dampers are more forgiving as the Ring is more similar to roads than say Spa or Silverstone is. There's been a fair few Octy's on this forum over the years that would give the Clubsport a run for it's money that's all I'm saying. I'd never suggest doing that to a new one as that would be pointless. But one a few years older that lost over half it's value and it's just for fun then fine. Plus all the suspension work I've done myself, brakes I could do and only the diff and the map tweak I'd need a garage for.

When people modify they know full well the mods won't make it go up and you only ever lose money. What I bought my car for was the price of it stock. Mods don't count. You only do it because you want to. If there was logic to it we wouldn't modify at all and for Clubsport money we wouldn't bother with it at all and just buy a Nissan GT-R instead if it was simply a case for bang for buck.

All I'm saying is it's not as far away as you think for some of us. Eventually head over rules heart and of course there is a limit. I'm currently dabbling with the idea of supercharging an 86 but it goes back to is it worth it. It would make it quicker but would ruin the 86ness of it.

The limited 40th Anniversary Golf GTI Clubsport S with 400 built is obviously intended for Enthusiast and maybe even an investment,

the 1000 Golf GTI Clubsport maybe just for fanboys and enthusiasts and less of an investment.

 

A modded Skoda Octavia is just that, a warm hatch available any place and tune to your hearts delight, 

costs little, easily replaced.

The limited 40th Anniversary Golf GTI Clubsport S with 400 built is obviously intended for Enthusiast and maybe even an investment,

the 1000 Golf GTI Clubsport maybe just for fanboys and enthusiasts and less of an investment.

 

A modded Skoda Octavia is just that, a warm hatch available any place and tune to your hearts delight, 

costs little, easily replaced.

 

Actually the 40 special edition is the "GTI Clubsport Edition 40" and refers to the standard CS, while the Nurburgring record holder is just "GTI Clubsport S" (no 40 in the name). Not that sticking "special edition" to any car makes me feel any different about it, but just saying how VW is promoting each car. Standard CS as the successor of 35 ED, and S as a Nurburgring focused variant of the earlier.

 

Now both share the same looks and offer the same exclusivity in terms of the bespoke bodykit, wheels, special interior, chassis and also both drive better than any other Golf of the range. To me these two features (design and drive) are the biggest factors that may or may not make a car become sought after in the future and I would imagine if the S was to become a collector's item at some point, standard Clubsports would at least follow with a higher than usual resale value.

 

What is more, once people start receiving their cars and try what is and what is not easily possible, like how easy is to get to or surpass the CS-S performance level with a standard CS (sorted to a large extent as stock) and very basic upgrades (as simple as a remap and a set of sticky tyres) it might be that a standard CS will start to make more sense overall than a CS-S, that remains to be seen in the long run of course.

 

I certainly didn't buy the Clubsport thinking I will make money out of it in the future. For sure after trying to sell a mk2 Fabia vRS in specific (not Skoda in general) every car will feel like an investment compared to that but I've not actually based my long-term income on the profit from selling the Clubsport at some point...  And I would hardly consider myself a VW fanboy. Never had a VW, and up to recently thought of Golfs as good but boring cars. I just found that the Clubsport surprisingly comes with all the right bits on it but that is not enough to turn me into a VW loyal, or any brand's loyal for that matter.

'40th Anniversary,' i never put 40 in the name & it is Limited in numbers to be sold, i doubt only 400 are built..

They are just Media attention grabbers to get top of VW Google searches and divert from the other VW issues.

A record breaker that cost them not a lot and customers will pay for.

They might hold value or even sell for more that RRP once lucky people get them and others pay a premium.

 

As for VW Golf GTI Clubsport which was to be & actually is the anniversary model and seemed to have the hype and be a damp squib with VW building it up too soon, they might be worth what they are worth, but as a car that will hold value beter than other Golfs, i doubt that.

But some will always pay a bit more i suppose down the line.

 

?

Do you have your new car now?

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

'40th Anniversary,' i never put 40 in the name & it is Limited in numbers to be sold, i doubt only 400 are built..

They are just Media attention grabbers to get top of VW Google searches and divert from the other VW issues.

A record breaker that cost them not a lot and customers will pay for.

 

It definitely cost them nothing since all parts were re-used from the standard CS, even dampers are the same but different geometry applied. Sub-frame comes from A3/S3 and hub carriers, well they probably also belong to a VAG relative. In fact all the development had been done already for the standard Clubsport (study and apply aero, design suspension, steering, take them all into account and dial in new geometry different from GTI/R etc.) They just used that as a base, gave it a free-er map, and handed the car over to the racing dept for suspension fine-tuning and testing.

Well that's one way to take the fun out of that....

Most people who own Octy's here are well used now. Mine is Mk2 Facelift from 2009, has a fair amount of bits on it already from the previous owner and would only need turbo and a diff to be similar. That can be done for about £1k, spend another £2k on a better 4 pot brake setup, braided lines, stiffen it in certain places and I think it would be a pretty good, fast road car which the Clubsport is. It's dampers are more forgiving as the Ring is more similar to roads than say Spa or Silverstone is. There's been a fair few Octy's on this forum over the years that would give the Clubsport a run for it's money that's all I'm saying. I'd never suggest doing that to a new one as that would be pointless. But one a few years older that lost over half it's value and it's just for fun then fine. Plus all the suspension work I've done myself, brakes I could do and only the diff and the map tweak I'd need a garage for.

When people modify they know full well the mods won't make it go up and you only ever lose money. What I bought my car for was the price of it stock. Mods don't count. You only do it because you want to. If there was logic to it we wouldn't modify at all and for Clubsport money we wouldn't bother with it at all and just buy a Nissan GT-R instead if it was simply a case for bang for buck.

All I'm saying is it's not as far away as you think for some of us. Eventually head over rules heart and of course there is a limit. I'm currently dabbling with the idea of supercharging an 86 but it goes back to is it worth it. It would make it quicker but would ruin the 86ness of it.

 

Oh, a used car and even more a half-modded one already is a completely different story definitely. With the right amount of money everything can go as fast or even faster around the ring, in the end I'm sure FWD cars modded for track use will already be going round the Ring faster than 07:49" so nothing to debate there. I don't think there was even an implication that VW managed something otherwise impossible anyway.  The only reason this (or any other manufacturer's claimed Ring lap) is in the news is because it's a stock car.

 

But still my point on whether it's worth it remains. I mean you know it can be done, but unless you are every weekend at the ring why would you want to spend that money on such a project? Just to prove that a modded Octy can go as fast? Isn't that precisely what tuning is about anyway? I understand though that tuning is a hobby that everyone takes on to a different extent so what seems unreasonable and pointless to me might be just right for someone else. Sure it's different for someone that is half-way there with mods as you say but again, what's the big deal? 07:49 is a great time and one better or close to many supercars but hardly "out if this world" so not sure there is much point in chasing it that's all I'm saying.

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by newbie69

The Golf R 400 or 420 was to be the big attention taker and we know what went wrong there.

The VW Group just had to turn out an Anniversary Model, and if it was top trumps Golf they would be fine,

as it was they had to top trump the 40 edition.   sad really, but thats the VW way, grab headlines.

 

Anyway they achieved what they set out to do, and as long as some other manufacturer or 2 does not break the Front Wheel Drive Record in the next few weeks they are top trumps this summer.

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

The Golf R 400 or 420 was to be the big attention taker and we know what went wrong there.

The VW Group just had to turn out an Anniversary Model, and if it was top trumps Golf they would be fine,

as it was they had to top trump the 40 edition.   sad really, but thats the VW way, grab headlines.

 

I wouldn't feel so sad about that R400 really. The only fact we knew for sure is that it was supposed to make 400bhp from a 2lt engine, which is what a stage 2 Golf R makes already anyway. Yet, whether its price would make any sense, or whether it would actually drive great are questions that will never be answered. 

 

Or can they? I mean it's a known fact that the only 4WD solution within the VAG group for transverse mounted engines (like the one in the R400) yet is the diff-less Haldex. As such it would probably show the same shortcomings that an R does when driven to the limit even if they were toned down by messing with the Haldex controller as much as possible. In the end, you can only do as much about kinematics without physically changing the connection between the front and rear wheels and introducing a proper open diff.

 

As for cost, if the Clubsport which VW doesn't event market as a higher than R model is already sold at almost the same price because of "special edition/exclusivity", I can only imagine where that R400's price would be and the non-existing discounts and special deals, making it practically indifferent to the average super-hatch buyer.

 

I don't know but personally the Clubsport seems that it will work out fine (well I hope so at least). Strong engine, proper chassis, special interior, and still a 5-seater 4-door family car with all the Golf luxuries in place. We'll see. BTW it was supposed to be built this week but no notification yet...

Couple of highlights from an extensive test between Golf CS, Leon Cupra, Type-R and 308 GTI from AutoBild (no link to the article as it's for purchase only)

 

First the dyno runs:

 

 

It's interesting how different the maps are. The Clubsport has reached almost 200bhp from as low as 3000 rpm at which same point the Cupra is just below 150bhp. Not sure if this is a result of the overboost function and the extra 30Nm but that's a 50bhp difference at low-mid RPMs which should be very noticeable in everyday driving.  Equally obvious is how the engine throttles right after 4K. The torque takes a very sudden dive down to the "permanent" 350Nm and stays there until 5500. Maybe that was the 10" overboost mark? It certainly looks too steep and too early.

 

 

 

Then, lap times with both the Cupra and the Clubsport on the same tyres, but worth noting that the tested Cupra is the 3-door and the Clubsport is the 5-door with 40kg of difference in favor of the Cupra (and of course the performance pack). Interestingly, Type-R is behind both VAG cars, and as a reference the Golf R on the same track was a further 2 seconds behind them. Given that both the Cupra and the Type-R have 4-pot Brembos on I think more and more that the Clubsport brakes are not that bad and they certainly don't seem to make it slower than other cars with 4piston setups.

 

 

 

My impression is that the chassis work on the Clubsport is doing its thing after all, as its very close to the lighter and with better brakes Cupra on the same tyres, and faster than the more powerful Type-R. Which can only make you imagine how it will perform with a simple remap to 350bhp or at minimum, the underboost function ditched.

Edited 19 June, 20169 yr by newbie69