Hi all,

Help needed again. I'm stucj in a car park and in my phone so apologies for not searching. My car out of no where, is going through a LOT of oil, and when I came to fill it up again, it was below the min line and smoke came out the fill port when I removed the cap.

There is oil on the drive way and it looks to be coming from the back of the engine bay. Turbo seals? Or new pistons needed? :(

Edited 12 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

It won't be rings/bores/pistons if there's oil on the ground.

It won't be rings/bores/pistons if there's oil on the ground.

That makes sense, getting myself all stressed out. Could it be turbo seals? Or could there just be a split pipe somewhere? I assume the smoke coming out of the block was just because the oil was low and starting to burn?

Have you had an oil change recently, or any close encounters with road furniture? Could be problem with the filter or sump plug having been incorrectly installed (happened to mine at a Skoda dealer).

I think if you open the oil filler cap on a hot engine there will also be a bit of "smoke" (I use the word smoke, as I'm not sure what it is, probably more likely it is steam?)

 

You need to trace the source of the oil - could be from the turbo or the sump plug.

OK, panic over, I think...

 

Just had the car up and the under tray off and it appears to be the sump plug bolt as said above.  In the time I was under (about an hour from jacking up, removing the tray and inspecting the engine bay) it dripped a good 5 times or more.  The top of the undertray (engine side) was very gunked up with stones and oil etc.

 

The bolt however looks very new, so it's either been replaced or they've stripped the threads and used a larger bolt. The oil was changed about 4k miles ago. Shall I just drain the oil, replace the sump bolt and put the oil back in, or just do a full oil change?

 

Also, out of curiosity, what is the sensor looking thing at the bottom, near the plug? Is it just the temp and level sensor?

Edited 12 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

Give it full oil change and fit a new sump plug. Not sure if the Skoda one is a copper crush washer or an o-ring type but either way they do need replacing every so often.

Give it full oil change and fit a new sump plug. Not sure if the Skoda one is a copper crush washer or an o-ring type but either way they do need replacing every so often.

 

It 'looks' like a standard aluminium washer, but obviously it's hard to tell without taking it off.  

 

I noticed also that almost every bolt that holds the sump to the engine block had a bit of oil surrounding them.  Would it be worth replacing the whole sump whilst I'm at it?

 

Whilst at it, is it worth me going to 504 fixed service oil rather than the 507 long life?  I've been topping my car up with Castrol Edge 5w30, but if I'm changing the oil completely then it'd be worth me switching to fixed?

Edited 12 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

If the sump plug hole has been stripped, you'll need to take the sump pan an engineering shop to get the thread repaired, or source a second hand pan from a breaker.  You could try fitting a 'helicoil' at home, but I wouldn't chance it.

Looking at the markings on the head I would say that's a bolt with a washer. The "8.8" is a standard bolt strength designation...

 

 

I noticed also that almost every bolt that holds the sump to the engine block had a bit of oil surrounding them

 

 

 

 

As well as the sump plug issue (are you sure? oil may be running down from gaskets/oil seals) -  Sounds like you are suffering from excessive crankcase pressure and it's blowing oil past the sump gasket and probably oil seals and probably past the valve stem seals - check the oil breather setup (not sure if this car has a PCV etc)

Edited 12 March, 201610 yr by bigjohn

As well as the sump plug issue (are you sure? oil may be running down from gaskets/oil seals) -  Sounds like you are suffering from excessive crankcase pressure and it's blowing oil past the sump gasket and probably oil seals and probably past the valve stem seals - check the oil breather setup (not sure if this car has a PCV etc)

Yeah as far as I could tell (there were no streaks etc) the oil was coming from the sump plug.  Thanks for suggesting the second bit as I totally forgot that I disconnected the pipe from the PCV to the intake manifold and there was a lot of oil in that pipe. Would that suggest that the PCV is not regulating the pressure correctly? I'm not getting any horrible 'failed PCV' squeeling sounds.

 

 

Looking at the markings on the head I would say that's a bolt with a washer. The "8.8" is a standard bolt strength designation...

Sorry, that middle picture shouldn't have been attached as that was a different part - it wasn't the oil sump plug.  

Edited 12 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

 

Yeah as far as I could tell (there were no streaks etc) the oil was coming from the sump plug.  Thanks for suggesting the second bit as I totally forgot that I disconnected the pipe from the PCV to the intake manifold and there was a lot of oil in that pipe. Would that suggest that the PCV is not regulating the pressure correctly? I'm not getting any horrible 'failed PCV' squeeling sounds.

 

 

Main reason for increased oil consumption is usually oil being blown past valve stem seals. This happened on my Octavia 1.4 16v which I still have - blocked pipe due to oil mayo caused huge oil consumption - Now it no longer needs topping up between services, even at approx 120k miles - I check the oil pipes/valves/module every year though

 

However - if oil breathing restricted then it'll blow past the weakest point of restriction. I had a car in the past (Cortina) that blew the dipstick out of it's tube so hard it dented the bonnet - engine was cream crackered though! It had a flametrap / breather "thingy" that was solid with oil residue/oil mayo - had to soak in petrol to eventually clear it out (don't try this at home  )

Edited 12 March, 201610 yr by bigjohn

Main reason for increased oil consumption is usually oil being blown past valve stem seals (happened on my Octavia 1.4 16v which I still have - blocked pipe due to oil mayo caused huge oil consumption - It no longer needs topping up even between services, now at approx 120k miles - I check the oil pipes/valves/module every year though)

 

However - if oil breathing restricted then it'll blow past the weakest point of restriction. I had a car in the past (Cortina) that blew the dipstick out of it's tube so hard it dented the bonnet! 

Thanks. What was the culprit/failed part in the end? 

Thanks. What was the culprit/failed part in the end? 

 

On my Octavia (just the 1.4 16v 75bhp) it was the pipe within the filter that was blocked (oil breather pipe connects to this) . Had to clean out and free up the funny "mushroom" valve at the end of this pipe. This never blocked when the car did a high mileage every year but now it only potters around locally it's probably more prone to blocking up - probably caused by the combination of oil and condensation.  I just keep an eye on it now every other year.

 

It's never blocked on mine but apparently the metal breather module on the back of this engine is also prone to bunging up

 

Before I cleared this pipe the oil low light came on during a single journey from Yorkshire to Hampshire and again on the way back!.   We had to use it again to drive through France a couple of years ago (after the fix) and it used no oil. I wanted my young son to drive abroad for the first time and at the time insurance companies weren't keen on insuring him for my Superb I 1.9 , not a problem on an Octavia with the tiny 1.4 (non turbo) though

Edited 12 March, 201610 yr by bigjohn

If the sump plug hole has been stripped, you'll need to take the sump pan an engineering shop to get the thread repaired, or source a second hand pan from a breaker.  You could try fitting a 'helicoil' at home, but I wouldn't chance it.

You could probably get a professional mobile helicoil service to do it in-situ.  The trouble is that the helicoil often protrude a fraction beyond the original thread length so the sump drains even less thoroughly than before.

 

In cases like this I think I'd be happy to get the dam thing to seal & then use a vacuum extractor in the future.  OTOH, a new sump is fairly cheap for these aren't they?  About GBP50?  Cheap enough to replace it.

 

It 'looks' like a standard aluminium washer, but obviously it's hard to tell without taking it off.  

 

I noticed also that almost every bolt that holds the sump to the engine block had a bit of oil surrounding them.  Would it be worth replacing the whole sump whilst I'm at it?

 

Whilst at it, is it worth me going to 504 fixed service oil rather than the 507 long life?  I've been topping my car up with Castrol Edge 5w30, but if I'm changing the oil completely then it'd be worth me switching to fixed?

The oil on the sump bolts is probably just blow-about.  Degrease & monitor.

 

That sump bolt looks crooked, so it's  a fair guess the thread is damaged in some way.

 

504 is the variable service oil for petrol engines.  507 is the variable service  / DPF spec for diesels.  I haven't seen a 504 oil that isn't also 507 compliant.

 

502 is the fixed service spec for petrol engines.  Just stick with 504/507 unless you want to go to a different viscosity than 5w-30.  I'm not a fan of variable service unless you run fleet vehicles or buy new & sell every 3-4 years.

 

I believe the sensor next to the sump plug is the oil condition monitor that tells you when the variable service is due

If your sump drain bolt is still serviceable replace it but smear a small amount of silicone sealant/RTV on the underside of the head for a leak proof seal.

I've done this for years and still have the same bolt.

Just give the bolt and hole a good clean first, inevitably the hole will drip oil and foul the bolt on replacing it but worry not.

Thanks all. Not sure what to do. There is a pool of oil bigger than my hand on the cardboard this morning. Less than 24 hours. Is there anywhere I can get a new plug and washer today?

OK, it's definitely the oil plug.  It's obviously cross thread, so much so that you can actually see a gap between the sump pan and the washer.  How much would I be looking at to have new threads tapped? Or should I just not bother and get a new pan?

DONT TOUCH IT! Contact whowever did this damage and lay into them.

 

They are responsible to restoring to its former undamaged state at no cost to you, i.e. new sump, gaskets, plug, new oil and filter and WRITTEN warranty to cover the parts and consequential damage that may have occurred to your engine. And a free courtesy car while they are doing the repair. And compensation, minimum of one or two free services.

Edited 13 March, 201610 yr by xman

DONT TOUCH IT! Contact whowever did this damage and lay into them.

 

They are responsible to restoring to its former undamaged state at no cost to you, i.e. new sump, gaskets, plug, new oil and filter and WRITTEN warranty to cover the parts and consequential damage that may have occurred to your engine. And a free courtesy car while they are doing the repair. And compensation, minimum of one or two free services.

 

I'd love to do that, but I've no way to prove it mate.  For all I know, its been like that for ages and it wasn't even them that did it.  I had the oil changed about 6 months (4k miles) ago so they would just laugh me out of the garage, even if I could prove it was them.  

 

Just found out that the new TSI sump is about £90 :( Going to have to try and source one from a breakers, but then who's to say that that doesn't have damaged threads also?

 

What's the going rate for thread repair?

Edited 13 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

Any mechanic should know straight away the threads were crossed and its also supposed to be checked visually for leaks after a test drive. There's just no way any garage mechanic would remove a cross threaded sump plug without noticing and then refit another new plug (as required by the service schedule) cross threaded. Did it leak before the oil change? I don't think so.

 

Just go and complain loudly and if its a dealer, complain both to the dealer principal and to Skoda UK. Use photographs as evidence. There is no time limit for claiming on faulty workmanship of this nature. They will have records going back 6 years by law, so they can't claim they didn't do it. You have a valid claim to take them to the small claim court too.

 

I think there is a good chance there is engine damage too, as evidenced by the smoke you described.

Any mechanic should know straight away the threads were crossed and its also supposed to be checked visually for leaks after a test drive. There's just no way any garage mechanic would remove a cross threaded sump plug without noticing and then refit another new plug (as required by the service schedule) cross threaded. Did it leak before the oil change? I don't think so.

 

Just go and complain loudly and if its a dealer, complain both to the dealer principal and to Skoda UK. Use photographs as evidence. There is no time limit for claiming on faulty workmanship of this nature. They will have records going back 6 years by law, so they can't claim they didn't do it. You have a valid claim to take them to the small claim court too.

 

I think there is a good chance there is engine damage too, as evidenced by the smoke you described.

 

Honestly mate for the price of a new sump, it's just not worth the hassle nor the stress.  They will simply deny any responsibility and I don't want to burn bridges.  Plus it's much easier said than done.  Perhaps I'm spineless, but going in and kicking off is just not something I'm good at.

 

I can just buy a new sump for £40 here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-SKODA-VW-ENGINE-OIL-SUMP-PAN-1-8-2-0-TSI-TFSI-FSI-PETROL-/141663529500?

 

Was the small amount of smoke not just from opening the cap straight from hot?

Edited 13 March, 201610 yr by planehazza

Please yourself.

 

Dont forget, at least one hours labour and gaskets, it might be one of those liquid gasket jobs, oil change too.

 

Who actually did the last oil change? Dealer, independent garage, mate or yourself? Do tell us straight, I for one have cocked up lots of times, and not afraid to admit it.

Edited 13 March, 201610 yr by xman

Please yourself.

 

Dont forget, at least one hours labour and gaskets, it might one of those liquid gasket jobs, oil change too.

 

Who actually did the last oil change? Dealer, independent garage, mate or yourself? Do tell us straight, I for one have cocked up lots of times, and not afraid to admit it.

 

It was a local independent garage in North Shields.  I'd rather not name them, no idea if they read this forum etc. ha.  I'll fit it myself, and it's liquid sealant type as far as I can tell.