The 220ps experiences, questions & answers thread

[Csory]

Just to add my 2c's after almost 2 months of ownership and some 2000 miles driven:

 

- Still love the car. Everything works fine, no unexpected noises, gremlins, hiccups etc that would ruin this experience. Still grinning behind the wheel, still looking for opportunities to drive the car. Not the type of grin behind the wheel of a proper sports car (own one too), but the grin of sitting in a super-comfy sofa in silence, comfort, and that sofa also happens to be rocket propelled...

 

Notices (here I try to avoid the word "niggles" or "problems" because these are not over the threshold to qualify as one):

 

- very slight vibration on the steering wheel at idle. Most probably because of the direct injection mode (at idle). GDI engines are famous for this type of "roughness". Maybe a gel type wheel cover would help but who uses wheel covers?!

 

- 220 horses are a bit too much for front wheel drive. Could have chosen the 280 but decided to stick with the 220 for consumption, upfront costs and better NVH. There are some steering reactions at anything more than 1/2 throttle - can live with, but it is noticeable. Again, bought the car for comfort, so I can just call myself dumb for complaining over steering influence  Wouldn't want to downgrade to the 1.8 or 1.4 petrol because of the dual (direct and port) injection with the 2.0 - this apparently will take care of carbon deposits that plagues modern GDI engines later in their life.

 

- Apple CarPlay sometimes acts up and decides to not activate or becomes stuck with a blank screen. More of an issue with non-Apple cables. Interestingly, the HVAC menu seems to somehow being interlocked with this issue - once CarPlay gets stuck the HVAC menu won't appear. Buttons still work, but steering wheel heating has no separate button - has to be activated on the touch screen.

 

- Happened only once when the "Car" screen became inactive. Both consumption and green data were empty. Multi-dot still showed actual and average consumption though. The old "turn off the car, turn on the car" method solved this. I guess a software update is due for the head unit (Amundsen).

 

- There is a quiet but annoying creaking noise from the passenger seat base when the seat is in the lowermost position. Sounds like plastic-on-plastic, will try some talcum on it. For now just lifted the seat up a bit

 

That's all. Still convinced that the 220 is the sweet spot of the range  

[Rainmaker]

On 01/03/2017 at 10:29, Csory said:

Just to add my 2c's after almost 2 months of ownership and some 2000 miles driven:

 

[snipped]

- 220 horses are a bit too much for front wheel drive. Could have chosen the 280 but decided to stick with the 220 for consumption, upfront costs and better NVH. There are some steering reactions at anything more than 1/2 throttle - can live with, but it is noticeable. Again, bought the car for comfort, so I can just call myself dumb for complaining over steering influence  Wouldn't want to downgrade to the 1.8 or 1.4 petrol because of the dual (direct and port) injection with the 2.0 - this apparently will take care of carbon deposits that plagues modern GDI engines later in their life.

[snipped]

 

Glad you're enjoying it. Sorry I didn't reply when I saw your post yesterday, it was my eldest's 2nd birthday. I thought the same thing at first, but in reality you just need to adjust to putting down the power properly. You say you also own a proper sports car (so I'm assuming RWD), but as you said FWD behaves differently. You can't just plant 1/2 throttle or above and not expect mischief, as the front goes too light too quickly, and you can even experience torque steer. The default factory throttle map doesn't help with this either, as it's very much a case of insensitive>over-reactive. Have a play around with treating it more like a RWD in the wet (no, I don't mean get it sideways into oversteer haha). When you wish to move off briskly, or accelerate strongly in-gear, first give the car 'notice' of what you intend to do. Apply light throttle to tighten things up and begin the process of transferring the weight to the rear, and then feed in the extra gas. You can do this in almost one movement once you're used to it, and can make very brisk getaways without a peep of tyre spin/squeal or torque steer. 

 

At 2,000 miles your tyres will have lost their slippery film (from the moulding process), so that won't be the issue. Just keep playing until you get the hang of getting down maximum power without slip. If you were to get a pedal response control box this helps immeasurably, but at a cost (circa £160).

[freelunch]

48 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

If you were to get a pedal response control box this helps immeasurably, but at a cost (circa £160).

Is this the same thing as the "race chip" I keep reading about?

[BillyJim]

32 minutes ago, freelunch said:

Is this the same thing as the "race chip" I keep reading about?

To respond on Rainmaker's behalf... RaceChip is the manufacturer/retailer. The Pedal Response is just one of their products, the others being various Chip Tuning - non-mapping engine performance enhancement devices.

 

It's proper name is RaceChip Response Control and is listed under Throttle Tuning on the UK web page. 

An alternative is Pedal Box by DTE.

These should not be confused with brake bias adjustors which are also commonly referred to as pedal boxes.

Edited 2 March, 2017 by BillyJim
Clarification

[freelunch]

If you drive a Sportline with DCC including a sport mode and already enough power to break away the front end, do you actually gain anything useful from a race chip modification?

 

My old Brera got remapped (which was a noticeable improvement in off-idle acceleration) and I was about to spend big bucks trying to improve the ride before I bought the Sportline.

 

Which brings me to: how is the DCC suspension adapted? Special adjustable dampers? That's all I can think. You can't change the spring rates, right?

 

(Edit: So, it's the dampers. I guess you can't just go out and buy an Eibach B12 suspension kit, then. They must have to be dampers that can connect to the system?)

Edited 2 March, 2017 by freelunch

[freelunch]

I sure hope I'm wrong here, but road tax for the 220ps engine (143g/km CO2) is going up from £180 to £500 in April. £800 for the 280ps engine. Ouch. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-tax-changes-latest-what-need-know-child-care-credits-income-car-non-domiciled-status-public-a7608291.html

 

[Skoda Al Coda]

4 minutes ago, freelunch said:

I sure hope I'm wrong here, but road tax for the 220ps engine (143g/km CO2) is going up from £180 to £500 in April. £800 for the 280ps engine. Ouch. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-tax-changes-latest-what-need-know-child-care-credits-income-car-non-domiciled-status-public-a7608291.html

 

That's just 1st year (showroom tax) though.

 

After that the 280 owners will be shouting 'Woohoo' rather than 'Ouch'

[Bud]

Wrong figures:

 

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables/vehicles-registered-on-or-after-1-april-2017

Never trust the press

[freelunch]

Fake news! Trump is right! I just saved £320! Hmmm... what can I spend that on?

[Bud]

Split it with me

[freelunch]

Only if we pool the money you've saved, too!

[Bud]

Well my budget had already considered I may not get the car until April so I am thinking I might be down by £55 so if we split that you owe £27:50 and we split your change your saving you owe me £160.

 

I think you'll  find that a most agreeable arrangement thanks very much

[freelunch]

Please post a photo of yourself so I can see you coming.

 

[freelunch]

@Rainmaker What makes a 220ps motor into a 280ps? I presume more than a different map. However, my tuner says he can give me an extra 40 horses with a £250 remap. The 280 has a less restrictive exhaust? More turbo boost? Different engine internals? Higher lift cams? Inquiring minds need to know!

Cheers. 

[Rainmaker]

11 minutes ago, freelunch said:

@Rainmaker What makes a 220ps motor into a 280ps? I presume more than a different map. However, my tuner says he can give me an extra 40 horses with a £250 remap. The 280 has a less restrictive exhaust? More turbo boost? Different engine internals? Higher lift cams? Inquiring minds need to know!

Cheers. 

 

The 280 owners will know better than I mate. I do know they have a bigger turbo and shorter gearing than the 220. Probably uprated injectors also. @BillyJim or @Nick_H do either of you two dreadfuls know?  

[BillyJim]

Pass on that one. Never looked into the comparisons.

[Nick_H]

35 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

 

The 280 owners will know better than I mate. I do know they have a bigger turbo and shorter gearing than the 220. Probably uprated injectors also. @BillyJim or @Nick_H do either of you two dreadfuls know?  

 

Yup.... if you have a 280 'everything' is bigger 

[Csory]

Quote

Yup.... if you have a 280 'everything' is bigger

That might be the only point needed to be mentioned, and the missus will wish if only I had the 280  Now she has to get used to the 220... 

[Rainmaker]

22 minutes ago, Csory said:

That might be the only point needed to be mentioned, and the missus will wish if only I had the 280  Now she has to get used to the 220... 

 

Tut, all the gear and no idea. It's not what you've got, it's what you do with it that counts. Apparently.  

[Csory]

Quote

Tut, all the gear and no idea. It's not what you've got, it's what you do with it that counts.

I'll let her know that and report back if she agrees, or nods empathically and orders me a 280  Actually, will mention the 280's turbo lag - maybe the hesitation before blast off would deter her from the upgrade...

[BillyJim]

46 minutes ago, Csory said:

Actually, will mention the 280's turbo lag - maybe the hesitation before blast off would deter her from the upgrade...

Que? Turbo lag?

I've often read it being blamed on the DSG but this is the first time I've seen it blamed on the turbo, both of which are incorrect. It's been mentioned more than enough times now - it's that damned PITA throttle mapping which has been an issue for the 220, the 280 and even the 190 oiler.

The delayed response isn't at 'blast off'. If you want that you just have to be somewhat positive (as in heavy footed ) with the default accelerator and both the 220 and 280 will take off like a scalded cat.

The real problem, at least for the way I prefer to drive per Roadcraft, arises when transitioning from slowing to accelerating where the engine simply won't increase rpm in response to the throttle input for anything up to a couple of seconds. As a result it blows much of the Roadcraft "system of car control" out the window and is the primary reason I chose to fit the Response Control.

I hate to think how those emergency services that bought the Superb III cope, but as they're purchased as "special orders" I wouldn't doubt they're given a different mapping.

But if turbo lag is the excuse you want to use, who am I to argue? 

[Rainmaker]

11 minutes ago, BillyJim said:

Que? Turbo lag?

I've often read it being blamed on the DSG but this is the first time I've seen it blamed on the turbo, both of which are incorrect. It's been mentioned more than enough times now - it's that damned PITA throttle mapping which has been an issue for the 220, the 280 and even the 190 oiler.

The delayed response isn't at 'blast off'. If you want that you just have to be somewhat positive (as in heavy footed ) with the default accelerator and both the 220 and 280 will take off like a scalded cat.

The real problem, at least for the way I prefer to drive per Roadcraft, arises when transitioning from slowing to accelerating where the engine simply won't increase rpm in response to the throttle input for anything up to a couple of seconds. As a result it blows much of the Roadcraft "system of car control" out the window and is the primary reason I chose to fit the Response Control.

I hate to think how those emergency services that bought the Superb III cope, but as they're purchased as "special orders" I wouldn't doubt they're given a different mapping.

But if turbo lag is the excuse you want to use, who am I to argue? 

 

This ^^^ that ^^ and this again ^^^.

 

At first I though the car/box was laggy also. Try sticking it (warm oil) in manual mode, and then tell me it's a laggy engine or gearbox...

 

I had a seven hour / 500 mile driving day in the Yorkshire Dales and Lake District with a Class One friend of mine last Saturday. After some compliments about the Superb feeling 'Like being driven in a Mercedes', I let him drive for a few miles between villages (yes he's insured). Boy, and I thought *I* could hustle the car along!! He always drives DSG/PDK/semi boxes in manual mode 24/7 as he prefers the control it offers, and he says he's able to better relate it to the System. 

 

His first comment after pulling over was 'Bloody hell, nice engine and box combo, that!'. He said he was surprised how flexible the engine was, never running out of puff (as some turbo petrols will) at midrange or high revs, and the gearbox 'fits perfectly' he said. 

 

He drives a BMW M135i manual, usually. 

 

PS: Alex to be fair I have at times found that, if ending the speed phase at the same time one would in a manual, and getting back onto the gas at the time you would have after a manual downshift, the box only ends up reacting and changing down (as in properly engaging the clutch) as you're actually into the hazard. That is, too late - unbalancing the car into lean/roll in the process. Slowing a bit earlier still on approach, and being back on the gas fractionally earlier than I might in a manual negates this though. This is (imho) why the box gets the blame. I totally agree though, it's actually the delay from the throttle causing it - and the delay from the throttle being 'driven around' which fixes it. It just makes it seem/feel like the box's fault. JMHO.

Edited 19 March, 2017 by Rainmaker

[facet edge]

I can't see how you can drive around the throttle lag problem. Take the scenario of entering a roundabout. I cannot make the decision to accelerate until I can see if anything is coming and certainly won't be stepping on the accelerator before this time.

What I find is there is room to join the roundabout so I press the accelerator. There is now a pause where nothing happens and you are left with the decision of pressing harder or braking.

Twice I have found that pressing harder causes the box to snatch a lower gear, resulting in neck snapping acceleration followed by the traction control cutting in with all the attendant banging nose. This sort of behaviour leaves me extremely embarrassed as I pride myself on being able to drive smoothly. The electronics are not doing what they should and I am very surprised that the auto box was signed off when it displays this sort of behaviour.

[Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, facet edge said:

I can't see how you can drive around the throttle lag problem. Take the scenario of entering a roundabout. I cannot make the decision to accelerate until I can see if anything is coming and certainly won't be stepping on the accelerator before this time.

What I find is there is room to join the roundabout so I press the accelerator. There is now a pause where nothing happens and you are left with the decision of pressing harder or braking.

Twice I have found that pressing harder causes the box to snatch a lower gear, resulting in neck snapping acceleration followed by the traction control cutting in with all the attendant banging nose. This sort of behaviour leaves me extremely embarrassed as I pride myself on being able to drive smoothly. The electronics are not doing what they should and I am very surprised that the auto box was signed off when it displays this sort of behaviour.

 

I'm on my way out atm, but in case I forget to reply later... Basically yes you can do it, to a large degree. If you slow down earlier when you have lost the view on approach, then tickle the gas on final approach, the box will have time to react to the (laggy) throttle input, drop a gear and engage the clutch. Then you're in the right (responsive) gear, and can make a decision to stop or go when the view opens up. Your way involves braking later, having the box change later, and then being left with a laggy throttle when the gap appears. Easier to demonstrate than talk about, but it's very possible trust me. Just inconvenient and not ideal for fast/progressive driving (hence why I have a Response Control).

[facet edge]

I can see what you mean Rainmaker, I find it amazing that all the experts who build and test these cars reckon it's ok.

Can you confirm that the response control eliminates this? Have you got the Race chip one?