I'm doing 10 miles a day...

 

Get a bike 

Get a bike 

 

On your bike! :p

 

OK, results are in after letting the engine cool this evening.

 

Engine off, and cold (well, 26C):

 

Oil_Off_OffTemp.png

 

Engine running at idle, operating temp:

 

Oil_Idle_OperatingTemp.png

 

I had a snoop through the instruments adaptation section. It was getting dark and late, so I didn't go too far but I saw two items of interest:

 

ESI: Oil Quality

Poor Oil Quality

 

(3)0ESI: Code service interval extension-oil level

oil level evaluation

 

I'm entirely guessing, but I'd assume "Poor Oil Quality" refers to me not being on long life oil?

 

EDIT: The plot thickens. I wonder if I've perhaps chosen the wrong service indicator reset? Presumably I'm on fixed servicing, but when I used VCDS SRI it said my car did not support it, and I had to use 'ESI - resetting ESI' from the instruments adaptation page. I I wonder if my car is set for fixed servicing, but because I've used Extended Service Indicator (without knowing that's what ESI stood for at the time), I've got a wrong value somewhere...

 

You could probably check the service indicator number of days left till service on your dash screen/maxidot. If it is exactly to the number of days where a year will have passed its on Fixed. When did you do the reset?

 

It still doesn't explain why the light is up. Your off/idle results show  good level of oil. Could it be another sensor interfering with the oil level such as the engine speed or oil pressure switch.

Are you coded for variable service interval? The poor quality indicator is likely it has recognised the oil is not longlife 504/507 spec - I know from experience the sensor is smart enough to pick this up.

Maybe resetting the service to fixed (via maxidot) would clear the level light.

Are you coded for variable service interval? The poor quality indicator is likely it has recognised the oil is not longlife 504/507 spec - I know from experience the sensor is smart enough to pick this up.

Maybe resetting the service to fixed (via maxidot) would clear the level light.

 

I don't have maxidot (fitted anyway), but I'll give it a go via VCDS tomorrow, following the guide in the link above.  The level light is not currently on, but I suspect it will be again once I've driven 100km.

Edited 17 May, 201610 yr by planehazza

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4523024

 

Found this too, you can change between the two service types. You can do it via VCDS but you select between high quality oil and poor quality oil to determine variable and fixed respectively.

 

The TOG sensor will detect the actual quality of the oil..

 

I say get the oil changed as normal with 504/507 (507 for your diesel) and select the type that works best for your driving. Reset and hopefully no more warning lights!

http://www.seatcupra.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4523024

 

Found this too, you can change between the two service types. You can do it via VCDS but you select between high quality oil and poor quality oil to determine variable and fixed respectively.

 

The TOG sensor will detect the actual quality of the oil..

 

I say get the oil changed as normal with 504/507 (507 for your diesel) and select the type that works best for your driving. Reset and hopefully no more warning lights!

 

So I was right that poor oil means I'm not on variable, but I wonder if when resetting my SI, I've used the wrong one, so I've gone one value saying I'm on variable, and another saying I'm on fixed therefore bringing up the light.

 

Yeah I've got another 5L of Quantum III coming this week.  I'll have them change it on Sat when they fit the new sump pan

Edited 17 May, 201610 yr by planehazza

You dont need vcds to reset the service interval. Do it manually via the dash controls and it should set everything to fixed.

You dont need vcds to reset the service interval. Do it manually via the dash controls and it should set everything to fixed.

 

Even if I've potentially made a mistake in VCDS when I reset it about 3 weeks ago?

So I was right that poor oil means I'm not on variable, but I wonder if when resetting my SI, I've used the wrong one, so I've gone one value saying I'm on variable, and another saying I'm on fixed therefore bringing up the light.

 

Yeah I've got another 5L of Quantum III coming this week.  I'll have them change it on Sat when they fit the new sump pan

Possibly, I guess you just have to decide what you want to do now. Fixed or variable. If you take it for service at the dealers normally, maybe you should put it as fixed. If not then choose what you want. Since I like to do my own oil change 6 months from the dealer service I don't reset anything, I just change the oil and filter.

 

Regarding the two different values are you saying you chose FIX and also chose High Quality Oil?

 

PS: Would anyone be putting anything apart from the 504/507 spec into their engines (except racing oils) regardless of fixed or variable?

Edited 17 May, 201610 yr by UdayP

Possibly, I guess you just have to decide what you want to do now. Fixed or variable. If you take it for service at the dealers normally, maybe you should put it as fixed. If not then choose what you want. Since I like to do my own oil change 6 months from the dealer service I don't reset anything, I just change the oil and filter.

 

Regarding the two different values are you saying you chose FIX and also chose High Quality Oil?

 

PS: Would anyone be putting anything apart from the 504/507 spec into their engines (except racing oils) regardless of fixed or variable?

 

Yeah I want to be on fixed as I prefer to just have a service every 12 months

Nope, I didn't chose or change either of those. All I did was change the ESI - Service Reset to 'Reset' as per RossTech guide.

 

And to your PS, nope, I always looked for the officiall VW approved stuff.  Currenly using Quantum III from here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/172180841695?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Edited 18 May, 201610 yr by planehazza

Funny enough, after writing my last post I remembered that for fixed service a 502 should be used for petrol fixed. I guess you could use 505 if you dont have a DPF on your diesel. I think its better suited to fixed regime.

Long life services are better for those who regularly do consistent long distance driving with minimal load on the engine. A low saps formula helps get those most out of the long life oil. Its also 5w30 for better efficiency.

Since mine is on fixed, and its mainly town driving with some higher engine loads at time (revving through the gears to get to speed) I'll be putting in quantum platinum 5w40 502 spec for my TSI. It also helps reduce the wear at higher revs I hear.

If yours is going to be on fixed, and its a PD engine without DPF, it might be worth using the 5w40 505 spec. Although if you dont do much mileage and change your oil after a year, less than 10k or even more frequently, you could still use the 5w30 507.

Funny enough, after writing my last post I remembered that for fixed service a 502 should be used for petrol fixed. I guess you could use 505 if you dont have a DPF on your diesel. I think its better suited to fixed regime.

Long life services are better for those who regularly do consistent long distance driving with minimal load on the engine. A low saps formula helps get those most out of the long life oil. Its also 5w30 for better efficiency.

Since mine is on fixed, and its mainly town driving with some higher engine loads at time (revving through the gears to get to speed) I'll be putting in quantum platinum 5w40 502 spec for my TSI. It also helps reduce the wear at higher revs I hear.

If yours is going to be on fixed, and its a PD engine without DPF, it might be worth using the 5w40 505 spec. Although if you dont do much mileage and change your oil after a year, less than 10k or even more frequently, you could still use the 5w30 507.

 

Mine's petrol CCZA mate.  I was under the impression that it's fine to use long life 504 in a fixed service schedule, but obviously it isn't wise to use 502 for variable/long life.

Mine's petrol CCZA mate.  I was under the impression that it's fine to use long life 504 in a fixed service schedule, but obviously it isn't wise to use 502 for variable/long life.

Sorry I didnt see your signature on my mobile browser! Same as mine then. I think it is ok but when I put my reg into nearly every site and choose fixed servicing regime, it comes up with the 0w40 or 5w40 oils which as 502 spec.

 

It will depend how you drive your car. What sort of load it is experiencing and how much you drive it. I think many cars from the dealership are sold on Variable Regime to reduce service costs for the driver. That's where 504/507 is used. I think 502 for petrol is still the preferred oil on Fixed though. I may call up the dealership and ask them what I should used for fixed on petrol.

504/507 is just an enhanced 502/505.01. It has a larger additive package to combat heavier soot and acid loading. The 30w rating adds to its eco credentials as it can reduce fuel consumption by "up to" 3%. It also has the magic chemical marker that the oil sensor can check for "oil quality". The flip side is being slightly lighter in weight, oil consumption can be higher and also possibility of slightly lower protection at extreme power and temperature if your car is used hard.

I have a lot of experience of the variable service regime with 2 cars that are high mileage users with supposedly ideal situation, they do long runs virtually every day and are not heavily loaded, high power use. What my recent conclusion is, yes, the regime is possible, but only just. I am concerned about the amount of contaminants the oil and engine ultimately contain. As I've finally ditched the dealer to diy the servicing, the oil I drained in both 1.2tsi cars recently was very dark brown/black and very sticky, laden with lacquers and soot levels very high. It cannot be good for the camchains and hydraulic tensioners/tappets, one car of which has been giving cause for concern for some time.

My personal diy regime is now oil changed every 9000 miles with a filter change every second oil change. I use GM dexos 2 oil (502/505.01 5w-30 plus raft of MB/BMW/GM long life certification) because its cheap, and is IMO at least as good as long life 3.

On the little fabia I increase the frequency of changes because its lower mileage useage and shorter irregular journeys.

I test oil from the dipstick by dripping onto a paper towel and examine the stain after a few minutes (oil dip quality test) checking if the outer stain is the right colour (chromatography test). Also use my nose to check how much petrol dilution in the oil. If I have any concerns I move the oil change forward. At about £9 per oil drop its more about finding the 20 mins to do it.

Yesterdays oil change I found the dealer had not only grossly overtightened the filter, distorting and compromising the seal badly (as on other car) but also fitted a badly rusted incorrect sump plug (too short and fitted with a badly distorted aluminium washer) which had obviously been used a number of times.

And yes this dealer has featured recently on this forum.....

Edited 18 May, 201610 yr by xman

Sorry I didnt see your signature on my mobile browser! Same as mine then. I think it is ok but when I put my reg into nearly every site and choose fixed servicing regime, it comes up with the 0w40 or 5w40 oils which as 502 spec.

 

It will depend how you drive your car. What sort of load it is experiencing and how much you drive it. I think many cars from the dealership are sold on Variable Regime to reduce service costs for the driver. That's where 504/507 is used. I think 502 for petrol is still the preferred oil on Fixed though. I may call up the dealership and ask them what I should used for fixed on petrol.

 

 

504/507 is just an enhanced 502/505.01. It has a larger additive package to combat heavier soot and acid loading. The 30w rating adds to its eco credentials as it can reduce fuel consumption by "up to" 3%. It also has the magic chemical marker that the oil sensor can check for "oil quality". The flip side is being slightly lighter in weight, oil consumption can be higher and also possibility of slightly lower protection at extreme power and temperature if your car is used hard.

I have a lot of experience of the variable service regime with 2 cars that are high mileage users with supposedly ideal situation, they do long runs virtually every day and are not heavily loaded, high power use. What my recent conclusion is, yes, the regime is possible, but only just. I am concerned about the amount of contaminants the oil and engine ultimately contain. As I've finally ditched the dealer to diy the servicing, the oil I drained in both 1.2tsi cars recently was very dark brown/black and very sticky, laden with lacquers and soot levels very high. It cannot be good for the camchains and hydraulic tensioners/tappets, one car of which has been giving cause for concern for some time.

My personal diy regime is now oil changed every 9000 miles with a filter change every second oil change. I use GM dexos 2 oil (502/505.01 5w-30 plus raft of MB/BMW/GM long life certification) because its cheap, and is IMO at least as good as long life 3.

On the little fabia I increase the frequency of changes because its lower mileage useage and shorter irregular journeys.

I test oil from the dipstick by dripping onto a paper towel and examine the stain after a few minutes (oil dip quality test) checking if the outer stain is the right colour (chromatography test). Also use my nose to check how much petrol dilution in the oil. If I have any concerns I move the oil change forward. At about £9 per oil drop its more about finding the 20 mins to do it.

Yesterdays oil change I found the dealer had not only overtightened the filter, distorting and compromising the seal badly (as on other car) but also fitted a badly rusted incorrect sump plug (too short and fitted with a badly distorted aluminium washer) which had obviously been used a number of times.

 

My car sounds more like scenario two - most miles are short ish (~5miles) to work and back, meaning I do about 10 miles per day.   I always warm the engine up before giving it any load, so I tend to change gear at 2000rpm or higher, and try to go over 3000rpm until it's up to temperature. I ordered my 5L oil yesterday, ready for Sat but I'm concerned now that it won't arrive on time, so I'll have to enquire at Swift as to what oil they use. They're reputable VAG specialists so I'd like to think they'd use use VW approved oils.

 

With regards to the sump pan, that's exactly what happened with mine. The crush washer had been used so much that it had distorted to the point that there was actually a visible gap between the ID of the washer and the bolt head when looking directly at it. No wonder I had a leak!  I can't prove it was the garage that did it so I've had to cough up for a new pan...

The seal is axial, not radial, either side of the washer sealing against sump and underside of bolt head respectively, no? Unless I'm misunderstanding your description, ID has no relevance, unless it's distorted out so far it misses the bolt head?

The seal is axial, not radial, either side of the washer sealing against sump and underside of bolt head respectively, no? Unless I'm misunderstanding your description, ID has no relevance, unless it's distorted out so far it misses the bolt head?

 

You got it, it was THAT bad. I had a photo but I think I deleted it by mistake.

Blimey! Don't use that garage again.

On the 1.2 tsi, the correct sump plug has a captive (sometimes also fixed) STEEL washer. It is a one time use plug and dealers should change it EVERYTIME the plug is removed. It is impossible to crush these washers, but very easy to overtighten, which I suspect has happened on one of my cars. When I inspected, on request, the removed plug and it had a marked impression on the washer where it fitted the sump hole. That car, the sump plug fit is now quite sloppy.

The overtightened filters have been a root cause of past chaincam rattle issues, due to the damaged oil seal allowing oil to drain down when stood.

And I've even had the wrong oil filled TWICE, despite paying for long life.

My Skoda dealer at least, if not most garages imo CANNOT BE TRUSTED to even do an oil and filter change correctly.

Edited 18 May, 201610 yr by xman

Crush washers keep tension between the bolt and mating face. It stops the bolt from becoming loose. The seal is made by the screw plugging the gap. The bolt can keep the seal even without a washer. You just need a bolt made to the correct tolerance to plug the gap in the screw.

I may have mentioned it earlier, I have a fumoto drain valve which has never leaked. It doesnt get removed from the sump and therefore no risk of damaging threads. The only thing I had to do was change the fibre washer to a steel crush washer. This was because upon tightening the lever was on its side and I want it at the top. The steel washer stopped the tightening just about upright fit the lever. This is when i learnt that there was only one entry point on the threads of bolts.

If you are getting a new sump fitted, get that quick drain valve. It will resolve the chances of damaging the sump again.

Crush washers are either copper (the best material) or aluminium. Steel washers don't crush. The bolt stretches slightly in the narrow area inside the washer to keep in tension, that's why maximum torque must be observed.

I cannot understand why the standard mechanical practice of using both a plain and spring washer isnt used.

Edited 18 May, 201610 yr by xman

Crush washers keep tension between the bolt and mating face. It stops the bolt from becoming loose. The seal is made by the screw plugging the gap. The bolt can keep the seal even without a washer. You just need a bolt made to the correct tolerance to plug the gap in the screw.

I may have mentioned it earlier, I have a fumoto drain valve which has never leaked. It doesnt get removed from the sump and therefore no risk of damaging threads. The only thing I had to do was change the fibre washer to a steel crush washer. This was because upon tightening the lever was on its side and I want it at the top. The steel washer stopped the tightening just about upright fit the lever. This is when i learnt that there was only one entry point on the threads of bolts.

If you are getting a new sump fitted, get that quick drain valve. It will resolve the chances of damaging the sump again.

Screwthreads don't seal. There's a helical gap all the way from one end to the other. If there wasn't , there wouldn't be enough clearance for the threads to move relative to one another.

 

The underside of the bolt head could form an axial seal directly against the sump, but a washer gives a little bit more conformance even if steel (the screw expands in length, the washer shrinks in thickness, the combination ensures enough friction to prevent loosening).

Edited 18 May, 201610 yr by Wino

Whenever I've removed a sump plug, there is no leak until the plug is on the very last fraction of thread, so it does a reasonable job of sealing, but I agree it is the washer that ultimately seals the sump.

Whenever I've removed a sump plug, there is no leak until the plug is on the very last fraction of thread, so it does a reasonable job of sealing, but I agree it is the washer that ultimately seals the sump.

This is the reason I too believe the seal in the thread is enough to keep the oil from leaking and does not require a huge amount of tightness on the bolt.

 

Screwthreads don't seal. There's a helical gap all the way from one end to the other. If there wasn't , there wouldn't be enough clearance for the threads to move relative to one another.

 

The underside of the bolt head could form an axial seal directly against the sump, but a washer gives a little bit more conformance even if steel (the screw expands in length, the washer shrinks in thickness, the combination ensures enough friction to prevent loosening).

I'm still trying to understand how the washed helps keep the seal. What about the gap between the washer ID and the bolt? Surely the washer is there to spread the load against the sump when tightening. Also due to its design keeps the tension. I am inclined to believe the seal IS made in the threads when the bolt is pulled back once tightened. This action would keep the inner thread and outer thread flush??

Edited 18 May, 201610 yr by UdayP