Having read a very heated thread on another popular motoring forum recently I'm now unsure if I have been navigating roundabouts incorrectly?

 

There are a number of roundabouts on a dual carriageway on my commute to and from work. For years I have approached the roundabout in lane two (only when there is slower moving traffic in lane one) and exited the roundabout using the second exit in the same lane - exactly as the red car in this illustration is doing...

 

Ignore the lane markings below, the roundabouts I use have no arrows but the roundabout is marked into two lanes.

 

 

My concern now is that it appears a lot of people are saying this is foolish, as the blue car is well within their rights to use the left hand lane to take the third exit, effectively passing in front of me.

 

I am a sensible driver, so I am always watching the road positioning of the blue car and as much as possible avoid being alongside another car at the exit, however when traffic is heavy this is often difficult.

 

I was surprised to hear this as I'd just assumed if the blue car turned right from the left lane and we collided it would be their fault. It seems I may have it wrong?

Did you not already have an accident where you were in the blue car position and a commercial vehicle in the car car position hit you?

Yes, but the lanes were clearly marked and the lorry was in a turn right only lane but filtered left into my lane without indicating whilst I was in their blind spot.

 

It wasn't a two lane entry and exit either, so not relevant George.

 

The lorry was in the lane that the Astra was in (note the road markings), I was to his left. We were both heading straight on.

 

They admitted liability.

 

 

My car parked up in the distance on the left. Lorry entered the roundabout from the middle lane with the 'turn right' arrow in it and hit me roughly where the horse box is as he meandered into the left hand lane...

 

 

Fancy having a go at the question in the opening thread?

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by silver1011

If there are no arrow markings (and also with the arrows shown) then the blue car is in the wrong if it goes 3/4 round then exits right. It should start where the red car is in position 1, indicate right, then move to the left lane, indicating left, as it passes the exit at the top.

 

(Contrary to this I regularly exit a motorway to a roundabout onto an A road and the arrows on the Mway exit do actually permit using the left lane to take the third exit off the roundabout. Road and direction (south) are included by the arrows on the road surface.)

 

 

In the illustration, IN THE ABSENCE of any arrows prohibiting straight on, (i.e. left lane left only, right lane right only) then both cars are correctly positioned for the paths illustrated. And of course both are also correctly positioned with the arrows shown.

The blue car on the inside lane has two options, either take the first exit or the second exit. The red car has the options of taking the second or third exit or going around again.

This is the video that caused the debate.

 

I was surprised at how the vote went very much 50:50 as to who was at fault...

 

 

I don't think either driver is blameless, the collision was easily avoidable but my initial reaction was to think the Fiat 500 was in the wrong.

 

I'm not looking to debate that here, more on whether it is OK to exit a roundabout from lane two.

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by silver1011

As above in post #5.

and i see this type of markings, and ones on the same type of roundabout where the marking allow the blue car to take the 3rd exit. 

many people see or hear the sat nav and not the road markings or they are not visible or the road marking and signs are not showing the same.

 

What i do as others do is just be prepared if needs must to give way.  

 

EDIT,

PS, after video posted.

 

Stirling Dunlane junction in the video, happens all the time.

THE RED 500 DID NOT COME FROM PERTH on the A9, IT JOINED THE ROUNDABOUT FROM THE SIDE ROAD.

The Dunblane road.

You need to go and see it, cars coming down the hill on the A9 are coming off the last average speed camera after 23 miles coming from Perth. and its a lottery what happens, even getting into the flow from your right is an issue..

Then the cars in both lanes need to sprint out if they can, others just have to wait, often for quite a while, and stuff comes from the left like the RED 500, and then the entry after that from Stirling.

(On the left where the RED 500 comes from there is a phone mast disguised as a tree.)

 

PPS.

News stories today on the investigation of the crash just up the road where 2 people died, sadly after the police never responded to the report of the crashed car.

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-36548695

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

I agree with Moley. Fwiw, the IAM's view is that the driver should take the "line of least resistance".

Interesting, I was always taught and have subsequently always followed the fact that lane one (blue car) is for turning left, or going straight on. To me, travelling to the 3rd exit from lane one would cause chaos at a busy roundabout.

@ 27 min,  was where the BMW was going,

the red 500 entered from the left, ie just after the first exit to someone coming down from the east on the A9.

**@ 27.25 on this video with the White car is where the RED FIAT 500 entered the roundabout in the crash video.**

 

Arnold Clark van is proceeding around the roundabout as the BMW Estate did in the Crash Video.

Grey Audi doing as the BMW Estate did, which is correct.

Car videoing is taking the inside lane and carrying on up the A9, and will sometimes still get cars coming into it from the right trying to exit left from the lane nearest the centre, ie the outside lane.

SEE THE ROAD SIGN @ 26 Mins 17 & 27 sec.

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

Red fiat. He joined then cancelled indication, in my mind implying straight on. Mind you he wasn't indicating as he exiting either. But in my mind that's the lane he was going down from that position.

 

I'd of been the BMW driver if I knew the road or using your top photo example saw the road to be laid out this way.

 

Perhaps on a busy roundabout with local traffic merging like this... I don't know. 

 

I guess the argument is along the lines of being in the left lane as you exit.

 

That's my beef with road markings it takes away the sense of misadventure. The markings clearly encourage you to use both lanes, reinforcing my view that if I was the BMW I'd of been pulling over too. Although my indicators may of been on

Watching the last vid again, red fiat if going straight on... or right... I'd of been in the right-hand lane for Doune or the A9 North. 

 

Of course if it was a crappy satnav, been there done that and taken the wrong exit and cursed it, as fortunately I'm still in control of the car despite verbal instructions to the contrary.

 

I also think you have to yield to the traffic coming in from the right. So in top photo blue would be breaking that... proof of course...

Funny, because i never even considered it was a he, i jumped straight to the conclusion it was a she in the Red Fiat 500.

Maybe even just collected from the dealership.

Edited 16 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

The blue car on the inside lane has two options, either take the first exit or the second exit. The red car has the options of taking the second or third exit or going around again.

It does, if you're willing to trust them.

I go in the gap between the cars. Ill follow a car in, but i wont go alongside it. I defo wont go alongside a lorry, ill just be far enough behind that i can stop if it does start crossing my lane.

Then when the car on my left commits, ill open up and go past it under acceleration.

Ill never, ever, go alongside a vehicle in a situation like that.

Did you not already have an accident where you were in the blue car position and a commercial vehicle in the car car position hit you?

Your memory amazes me again George!

I remember it well now .

@ 27 min, was where the BMW was going,

the red 500 entered from the left, ie just after the first exit to someone coming down from the east on the A9.

**@ 27.25 on this video with the White car is where the RED FIAT 500 entered the roundabout in the crash video.**

Arnold Clark van is proceeding around the roundabout as the BMW Estate did in the Crash Video.

Grey Audi doing as the BMW Estate did, which is correct.

Car videoing is taking the inside lane and carrying on up the A9, and will sometimes still get cars coming into it from the right trying to exit left from the lane nearest the centre, ie the outside lane.

SEE THE ROAD SIGN @ 26 Mins 17 & 27 sec.

Quite some music :D.

We should have more of these... I was dead on my feet five minutes ago, now wide awake. Shame I'm on a job in 6 hours.

How many exits does this roundabout have and from the Fiat's entry point was his exit point at 12 o'clock if there were more than 4 exits? In my view the BMW driver was more at fault because he hit the Fiat - the front of the BMW N/s wing impacts the Fiats o/s door, he also failed to do a shoulder check prior to leaving the roundabout-had he done that he would have seen the fiat along side him and been able to avoid the collision.

The BMW Estate was coming on the A9 and it is the Trunk Road and NSL entering and leaving the roundabout,

2 lanes around the roundabout.

 

The Red Fiat entered from the Dunblane road where there is a 50 mph speed limit,  (27.22 on video.)

you will spot that in the video i posted just off the roundabout at the first exit, Dunblane.

 

People entering from Dunblane and going past the Stirling or Glasgow turn offs often can not get to the inside of the roundabout, then cross back left across traffic coming from Glasgow into the Roundabout, 

and if going to Doune you really do not want to, You indicate like the Red Fiat was and once past where the incident was indicate left to go off left to Doune.

or even if heading North (East) you might stay to the outside lane of the roundabout, because you would be in the Outside lane of the dual carriegeway going up the hill to the first Average Speed Camera and vehicles on the A9 are accelerating across the roundabout and up the brae to 70mph.

Edited 17 June, 20169 yr by GoneOffSKi

Have you spotted the Mobile Phone mast / tree @ 27min 26 seconds?

It does, if you're willing to trust them.

I go in the gap between the cars. Ill follow a car in, but i wont go alongside it. I defo wont go alongside a lorry, ill just be far enough behind that i can stop if it does start crossing my lane.

Then when the car on my left commits, ill open up and go past it under acceleration.

Ill never, ever, go alongside a vehicle in a situation like that.

I never trust anyone at roundabouts. When you say you don't drive side by side at a roundabout what do you do when a car in the other lane speeds up or slows down and is then alongside you?

That roundabout (it's more a giant oval to be honest) is a lottery. I use it a lot. (by the way, the wee chippy at Bridge of Allan is fantastic!).

If coming from Dunblane going to Glasgow, I'd normally be in the same Lane as the BMW driver. Not sure I would have avoided this, but the 500 cancelling their indicators at the junction did not help the situation.

On several occasions I have had to cancel taking my intended junction and driven round again due to people doing what the driver of the 500 did. During my subsequent approach, I pulled into the inside Lane just after the BoA turn off.

In post #6, 'small bump' video,

the drivers coming through the car filming & the BMW Estate are actually lucky not to get driven into as drivers just keep going, 

as cars leave the roundabout it is often a drag race towards Glasgow in those 2 lanes after the 23 miles from Perth through the cameras at a maximum 72 mph.

Lane 2 to Lane 2 is a perfectly legitimate manoeuvre, unless otherwise marked. But bear in mind most people will think Lane 1 to both lanes on the apex and back into Lane one is equally fine, so don't get next to anyone.

Remember people are stupid and flock like sheep, especially when met with a complex problem beyond their understanding.

There's a roundabout near here with two approach lanes. Two exits, left and straight on. The right hand lane us purely there for ornamental purposes, no one seems to be able to figure out what it's for.

12 o clock position and further needs to be the right lane and exit into lane 2. 9-12 o clock position in left lane and exiting into lane 1