Fabia RS: how much *reliable* power?

[Neo_VR]

As title.. how much power do you think is safe for the Fabia vRS to have if you were going to keep it for over 3 years?

discuss

[yashicamat]

I'm no expert on advanced engine mechanics, but I would say that as long as the engine is maintained regularly (for tuned engines, oil every 6k) using good quality components and that the engine is always treated gently until fully warm, you should be safe with 180 at the fly, maybe more. Depends I guess on what exactly the mods are.

[ChrisRs]

Up to 190 BHP

[redbaron]

show me a fabia with 60k on clock and a genuine 190hp at the fly and i will believe.

I know of an octy with that but it eats clutches....

[devonutopia]

I'll let you know in 3 years, Col! At the moment my plan is to change the oil every 6k or 7k, air filter cleaned & oiled probably twice as regularly again, fuel filter perhaps every 2nd oil change.

I live by my own motto to not use W.O.T until I see the needle pointing to the sky at 90, and only use 50-60% when I start to see it creeping up from the minimum. Liekwise, if I realise I've boosted a bit close to home I let the engine tickover a while, otherwise I make sure I don't boost it in last 2 minutes of a journey.

Shall see what goes first though - My vote goes to a head gasket blowing.

[Neo_VR]

I'll let you know in 3 years' date=' Col! At the moment my plan is to change the oil every 6k or 7k, air filter cleaned & oiled probably twice as regularly again, fuel filter perhaps every 2nd oil change.

I live by my own motto to not use W.O.T until I see the needle pointing to the sky at 90, and only use 50-60% when I start to see it creeping up from the minimum. Liekwise, if I realise I've boosted a bit close to home I let the engine tickover a while, otherwise I make sure I don't boost it in last 2 minutes of a journey.

Shall see what goes first though - My vote goes to a head gasket blowing. [/quote']

You see.. i already know the answer to this... and im talking in general.. not just engine but suspension, brakes etc too

[WW_VRS]

I'd imagine brakes will be fine, although pads will obviously wear etc - clutch won't last more than likely, rest should be fine.

IIRC you've got a FMIC so that should help keep temperatures under control. Excessive heat probably causes more trouble for the turbo then is good for it, but the FMIC should reduce that problem very much

[devonutopia]

You see.. i already know the answer to this... and im talking in general.. not just engine but suspension, brakes etc too

whoops.

I don't think power affects suspension - might be wrong. So usual wear & tear there maybe - dampers might be shot by 150k? Brakes will be worn out quicker, but I don't expect anything but quicker pad & disc wear - calipers/brake system should be good for a very long time. bearings might go quicker if they're stressed by mods which allow quicker cornering. Long term wear to gearbox could be a factor - I'd expect that to fail/wear out quite a bit quicker, along with the clutch if standard. CV joints (etc) in driveshafts too. Eeverything I don't see being much different, whatever the power.

For me, more power probably means a higher propensity to invert again.

I don't think the FMIC cools anything down for the turbo (as it sends cooler air wrong way for the turbo), but for the engine life I'd say its very good. Not sure what excessive heat in the turbocharged air really means for engine reliability?

[flatfourburble]

I would hope to see well over 120k without any issues. I've got the car for 5 years so I'd be upset if it doesn't

Mines got a health 33k on the clock with over half of that remapped with no major problems so far! (atleast none that haven't been caused by me )

I've got 180 so far the clutch is fine unless I'm stupid, brakes are good and so is suspension, but the latter have been upgraded/changed in the last in the last 5k. The power should effect the brakes or suspension too much unless you use it all of the time. Turbo is cooled down etc should last as long as normal, again all subject to the owner really.

If well serviced etc most moden cars will be fine, though I would say once you go over the 200bhp mark things will be different.

[Glider]

Jason, I already melted one set up at our power levels, I'd say 180 + an LPG set up. Keep torque around the 300 - 310 level and all should be fine.

As to brake upgrades make sure your running 17" if you want the 312 set up to last.

[Chris GB]

At an educated guess, I would say that as torque goes up by a factor of 10%, service life goes down by a factor of 20% for several key components. So if you go +35% on torque, you go - 70% on drivetrain componenets.

Upping power to around 170bhp at 4000rpm and keeping peak torque close to standard would be my recipie for reasonable longevity of the drivetrain. The gearbox is very small and light for the torque it has to look after. Big torque peaks and big peak effective pressure would almost certainly damage or prematurely wear the box if it overcomes the cushioning effect of the DMF. As the key failure modes here would be metal fatigue and lubricant film failure, upgrading gearbox oil may help the cogs resist wear if they dont break.

Running higher powers at higher RPM may have a negative effect on the turbo. It has to shift a whole lot more air to maintain tourque at high revs. Extra thermal loads on the block and system in general may also outrun the capability of the cooling system in extremis and lead to localised overheating of the combustion chambers and possibly head gasket failure.

Finally, if you go to higher RPM, you may also find compromised valvetrain and injector cam wear, as well as piston ring or cylinder bore issues due to the long stroke engine giving relatively high piston speeds.

So more power equals less reliability. On the other hand, more power equals more fun.

As for other parts, well wheel bearings suffer if changes affect suspension loading or geometry. I have yet to see dampers that last past 60,000 miles, but harder springs can prematurely age them, due to increased rebound speed. Because wear is progressive, you dont realise how much they have worn until you replace them. Most shocks are past their best by 30,000.

As always, no such thing as a free lunch.

Chris

[Xavier]

The gearbox is very small and light for the torque it has to look after. Big torque peaks and big peak effective pressure would almost certainly damage or prematurely wear the box if it overcomes the cushioning effect of the DMF.

Hmm... I thought the box on the PD130 was frikkin huge when I had mine removed to change the clutch.

But then again, if you have 300+ lb.ft you probably need it to be even bigger. Although the PD130 engines do have the biggest flywheel / clutch diameter plates I've seen in a long time

[Chris GB]

Hmm... I thought the box on the PD130 was frikkin huge when I had mine removed to change the clutch.

But then again' date=' if you have 300+ lb.ft you probably need it to be even bigger. Although the PD130 engines do have the biggest flywheel / clutch diameter plates I've seen in a long time [/quote']

Certainly must contribute to the nose heavy balance, but the action is just so short, smooth and light for the forces it transmits. I wonder how big it would have to be without the help of a dual mass flywheel?

Chris

[Wardy]

Certainly must contribute to the nose heavy balance' date=' but the action is just so short, smooth and light for the forces it transmits. I wonder how big it would have to be without the help of a dual mass flywheel?

Chris[/quote']

Very true, a great action , never really thought about that much - all these modern marvels we take for granted

Steve

[faboka vrs]

Well think we all know the clutch is the weakest link. Standard and remapped. Wounder how long these turbo's are going to last with high boost pressures seeing that the likes of Turbo Dynamics dont rate the KKK turbo.

Already had to replace an ARB bush wont be surprised if more bushes have to be replaced. Currently on 34K.

[paulwakinshaw]

This is like many of the threads I read in the Lotus Elise forums, usually titled “how much power is reliable” and the short answer is It can’t be determined. All of us have different driving styles, habits etc and even though the Fab is built on probably one of the better production lines in Europe, VAG still have to work to tolerances with all of their components. Lets take the clutch for example as it does seem to be the most common cause for concern for the Fab. My driving style is to get up to speed and stick my car in top gear and cruise along at 60-70. When I want to overtake I drop a cog or two depending on the situation and zip away. Other people will just leave the car in top and let the torque do the work, causing more stress on the clutch. Then each clutch will be different, if you put 10 of the clutches on a test bed and operated them identically, they would all fail at different times.

However there does seem to be a common thread with the clutch failing at approx 30k miles on most unmapped cars and 20-30k on mapped cars, although there are exceptions to this. What you need to consider is driving style and torque (not power as such) 300lb/ft seems to munch the clutch pretty quickly so if you want a reliable clutch with slip free operation with your remap a clutch change would be advised. The tuning of diesel cars is not new, but has become more common in recent years and tuners have been quick to point out that big gains can be made with just a simple chip. In my Elise a managed to gain 54BHP and 20lb/ft torque with a multitude of substantial mods, and this didn’t have any effect on the clutch. The torque was increased by 17% but in the Fab you can be looking at up to 35% increase in torque with a chip or CC remap. Manufacturers have always built in allowances on all of their products to take in to account driving style, so my 17% increase in torque should be OK in the Elise, but a 35% increase in a Fab will never have been built into the design of the clutch hence the slip.

Finally this will now cause a wave of people with standard cars to shout that their clutches have been slipping at 10, 15 20K and this can only be explained in one way – the car has a clutch that is not “fit for purpose” so if you all want to do something about it, club together and contact Skoda UK with your issues. This has worked in the Lotus community on at least one occasion with good results!

[Tom_vRS]

I'm firmly of the feeling that anything much over standard will reduce reliability, simple as that.

And when you have mods, you are your own warranty.

With the Fabia vRS, I feel the engine itself would be fine with a smooth remap up to about 180bhp. However, an uprated clutch should be added when the OEM one melts, and be prepared to wear out brake pads frequently.

I think the normal servicing regime is adequate, but I will be changing the oil between every service to make sure.

And the one most people forget - bushes. The whole car will experience more stress, the suspension, wishbones, engine mounts etc. When the OEM ones wear out, I think I'll take the "hard core" route and go powerflex polybushes all round!

[Neo_VR]

Well...

ill put you all out of your misery.

about to hit 60k and heres the low down:

Front wishbone bushes shot - they just were never designed to carry such a heavy engine!!!(replaced)

engine mounts espec the dogbone - again.. remapped it will kill the rubber in them.. now on my 3rd dogbone mount.

clutch - im shocked its lasted this long its slipped occasionaly since it was remapped 50k ago.. but its finally throwing in the towel - will be changed shortly along with:...

the Dual mass flywheel....

bearing in mind that my map is classed by others as "conservative" and ive never had any kind of judder that remapped people reported. but mine is pretty much dead, anything over half throttle feels like the car is going over speedbumps at 100mph.

brakes - ovbiously these are cheaper and easier to uprate/change than a clutch.. but its still a major issue..

and finally tyres... altho i suppose it depends what kind of driving you do.

also bear in mind that 99% of my driving is on the motorway so car hasnt had a hard life.

make of this what you will... but dont start whinging when things start breaking when youve had it remapped.

this has been a public service announcement.

[flatfourburble]

Finally this will now cause a wave of people with standard cars to shout that their clutches have been slipping at 10, 15 20K and this can only be explained in one way

[chris_newell41]

so are you saying that a standard fabia has not been built to last over say 40k miles? i don't want to be paying out bills left right and centre. I am buying the fabia becuase of it's value for money. is it true you get what you pay for? i am a bit down heartened now. i hope its better than i expect cos at the moment my expectations are medium compared to really high when i test drove it

[lozgti]

Would think a standard fabia should do 250,000 miles! Bits will still wear though.

It is just if you fettle beyond what it was meant to do or be.(A 130 bhp nippy economical car)

[Neo_VR]

so are you saying that a standard fabia has not been built to last over say 40k miles? i don't want to be paying out bills left right and centre. I am buying the fabia becuase of it's value for money. is it true you get what you pay for? i am a bit down heartened now. i hope its better than i expect cos at the moment my expectations are medium compared to really high when i test drove it

Nooooo.. my car is tuned. a std car would be fine..

but we are getting to the stage where people with "non standard" cars are questioning reliability. im merely trying to point out the issues that can and probably will arise if people tune up their fabias..

[flatfourburble]

so are you saying that a standard fabia has not been built to last over say 40k miles? i don't want to be paying out bills left right and centre. I am buying the fabia becuase of it's value for money. is it true you get what you pay for? i am a bit down heartened now. i hope its better than i expect cos at the moment my expectations are medium compared to really high when i test drove it

to be fair a clutch "can" go at anytime, I'm sure it should last like any clutch! It all depends on how you drive it!

From reading what people have said I'm guess there are things that will kill the clutch sooner.

Try not to pull away in 6th gear, try not to pull away from low revs (drop a gear and go). Holding the car with the clutch on a hill wont help, too many GT starts from the lights will shorten the life too.

Col has stated that his has lasted nearly 60k with most of that re-mapped, abuse it and it will fail like any other car, look after it and it will last.

[faboka vrs]

So all in all

Clutch

bushes

Engine mounts (Lost a bolt from mine :eek: )

CV Joint leaking. Anyone else had this problem

Please add to list.

[WW_VRS]

Clutch I'd expect to give up the ghost pretty quickly if you use the torque a lot.

Bushes - I'm a tad surprised they go quite so quickly, even on the standard one, how hard is it to replace them (how many hours work, that kinda thing?)

Engine mounts - are they just not strong enough to take the engine's weight or does remapping the ECU cause a massive amount of additional 'twist' etc? Can it be re-enforced?