(More) Bluetooth issues

[AMartinD]

Hello Davey, thanks again for the suggestions.

I'm going try to pair my iPhone 5S (which has just had yet another iOS update) with the BT in a friend's Yeti that's a couple of years younger than my Superb to see what happens, and I also want to try pairing the same friend's Galaxy Android phone with my BT to see if that works.  Hopefully those tests will give an indication of whether or not it's the BT module in my car that's U/S, and I'll also try to get some VCDS testing done - there's an independent VAG specialist nearby and I know them pretty well so I might pop in there and ask then to plug their laptop in and see what comes up.

 

--

Martin

 

I've just done the further tests as I'd proposed above, and the results are interesting but not encouraging...

 

1.  My iPhone 5S pairs successfully with the BT in my friend's 2013 Yeti which is fitted with the Amundsen+ system, so there doesn't appear to be a problem with my phone.

 

2.  When I tried to pair my friend's Galaxy 5S phone with the BT in my car, nothing happens - the behaviour of the car's system is exactly the same as when I try to pair my iPhone.  Before starting, I physically disconnected and then reconnected the BT module under the driver's seat in the car in the hope that it would force a full reset, and I then went into Setup > Telephone on the Columbus and did a 'Restore factory settings' which came up with the 'Factory settings reloaded' response (as I'd expect).  I then went into the Maxidot Phone menu and did a Phone search - at no time was the Galaxy phone detected so I never got as far as being asked to enter the password on the Galaxy phone.  Usually when I started the Phone search function the Maxidot display just went immediately to showing the 'Initialising phone' message until it eventually timed out and went back to showing the Phone menu options.  Sometimes, while the Phone search was under way, the display on the Columbus whilst still in Setup > Telephone very briefly displayed a 'Deactivate telephone' menu option at the bottom of the screen but then reverted to showing the 'Restore factory settings' near the top of the screen.

 

To my mind, the strange behaviour of both the Maxidot and the Columbus points to there being some sort of weird software 'bug' but I can't fathom out what might have caused it or when it might have first appeared...

 

So, I reckon my next step is to try to get some VCDS diagnostics done to see if that shows any errors with the BT module itself; beyond that I think I'd want to try doing a full factory reset on both the BT module and the Columbus to see if that would have any effect.  Anyone know if such a thing is possible?

 

--

Martin

[Nathanio]

A link to such a module on eBay would be helpful... :-)

--

Martin

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-2015-ORIGINAL-VW-3c8035730-E-Bluetooth-Premium-FSE-rSAP-SMS-A2DP-WLAN-HFP-/301538114215?nav=SEARCH

[AMartinD]

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-2015-ORIGINAL-VW-3c8035730-E-Bluetooth-Premium-FSE-rSAP-SMS-A2DP-WLAN-HFP-/301538114215?nav=SEARCH

 

Thanks Nathanio.

 

Unfortunately, from the shots in the accompanying 'How to swap' video, that particular module doesn't appear to be 100% physically compatible with my existing one which, in addition to the multipin connector, has a purple connector for the thin coax that (presumably) goes to the antenna.  The part no on the existing module in my car is 5N0 035 730 D whereas the advertised module is 3C8 035 730 E - I guess the first three characters might differ depending on whether or not there's a separate antenna connector.

 

--

Martin

[Nathanio]

Thanks Nathanio.

 

Unfortunately, from the shots in the accompanying 'How to swap' video, that particular module doesn't appear to be 100% physically compatible with my existing one which, in addition to the multipin connector, has a purple connector for the thin coax that (presumably) goes to the antenna.  The part no on the existing module in my car is 5N0 035 730 D whereas the advertised module is 3C8 035 730 E - I guess the first three characters might differ depending on whether or not there's a separate antenna connector.

 

--

Martin

 

 

I have one of these and been using it in my last two Superbs. You need one of these for that additional connector:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GSM-UMTS-Antenna-Fakra-for-BMW-CIC-NBT-Mercedes-COMAND-VW-Audi-RNS-Bluetooth-/291695007503?hash=item43ea60970f:g:GjIAAOSwQYZW0WS1

 

This gives you a large mobile phone aerial for if you run in rSAP mode. If you have an iPhone you won't be able to use this mode as Apple don't allow it. I use Android and rSAP so that I can have the WiFi hotspot and use rSAP. It gives you much better signal as you are using the car as an aerial instead of your tiny inbuilt one. If you can't get signal with rSAP then it is really bad!

[AMartinD]

I have one of these and been using it in my last two Superbs. You need one of these for that additional connector:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GSM-UMTS-Antenna-Fakra-for-BMW-CIC-NBT-Mercedes-COMAND-VW-Audi-RNS-Bluetooth-/291695007503?hash=item43ea60970f:g:GjIAAOSwQYZW0WS1

 

This gives you a large mobile phone aerial for if you run in rSAP mode. If you have an iPhone you won't be able to use this mode as Apple don't allow it. I use Android and rSAP so that I can have the WiFi hotspot and use rSAP. It gives you much better signal as you are using the car as an aerial instead of your tiny inbuilt one. If you can't get signal with rSAP then it is really bad!

 

Thanks again Nathanio, but I'm confused...!

 

The 3C8 035 730 E module to which you provided the link on eBay doesn't appear to have a connector for the coax cable that feeds the aerial, but the link you provided above appears to be for a coax cable with an aerial on one end and a plug on the other end for connecting to the BT module.  Does the 3C8 module have a coax connector on a different face to the multipin connector?  The module being exchanged in the 'How to swap' video doesn't show any sign of having a coax connector anywhere.

 

One of the views of the 5N0 035 730 C module at the following clearly shows the coax connector alongside the multipin connector; this is what my module is like (although mine's a later D version):

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-SEAT-Bluetooth-PREMIUM-interface-module-5N0-035-730C-Novero-HT-2-original-/272365552718?hash=item3f6a40844e:g:ZxgAAOSwOdpXzWeQ

 

--

Martin

[Nathanio]

Side is same as yours.

It has the WiFi hotspot, SMS, A2DP and all the other stuff.

If you already have the fakra connector for the aerial it would be a straight swap.

I went from an A revision to an E revision of that unit without any issues.

In car WiFi is great if you can do rSAP.

[AMartinD]

Side is same as yours.

It has the WiFi hotspot, SMS, A2DP and all the other stuff.

If you already have the fakra connector for the aerial it would be a straight swap.

I went from an A revision to an E revision of that unit without any issues.

In car WiFi is great if you can do rSAP.

 

Hi again Nathanio, thanks for the picture - as you say the connections certainly look identical to the ones on my existing BT module and yes, the car already has the (factory-fitted from new) connector for the aerial so replacing the module should take only a few mins.

 

Before I go much further I want to see if I can detect any Bluetooth signals coming out of my existing module - I've got an 8yr-old WInXP laptop that's equipped with BT and I've just proved that it detects and correctly identifies my iPhone without any difficulty so I'll see if it will also detect the car's SKODA_BT.  If it doesn't then that will point even more strongly to a problem with the BT module, and I'll then have to decide whether to report the problem to my extended-warranty company in the hope that they'll cover the cost of a replacement module, or just to go ahead and buy one of the 3C8 modules like yours and sort out getting it coded into the car.

 

Currently I have an iPhone that, of course, doesn't do rSAP so sadly there wouldn't be any chance of being able to use the WiFi.

 

Many thanks for your help,

 

--

Martin

Edited 8 September, 2016 by AMartinD

[AMartinD]

Side is same as yours.

It has the WiFi hotspot, SMS, A2DP and all the other stuff.

If you already have the fakra connector for the aerial it would be a straight swap.

I went from an A revision to an E revision of that unit without any issues.

In car WiFi is great if you can do rSAP.

 

Hello yet again Nathanio, just to let you know that I've taken the plunge and ordered one of the 3C8 035 730 E BT modules from the German seller (navicarsystem) on eBay to whom you provided the link.  When I checked the eBay advert again this morning I noticed that it was indicating that there was only one unit left so I thought I might as well grab it and at least have it available if I find that my existing 5N0 035 730 D module is definitely borked.

 

I'm still going to try to get some VCDS diagnostics done, before I swap the modules, to see what gets flagged up but having the replacement available (soon) is definitely comforting...!

 

--

Martin

Edited 9 September, 2016 by AMartinD

[Nathanio]

It is a worthwhile investment as it can be moved between Cars. Mine has been in 2 so far and about to be a third!

[AMartinD]

Hello again all, just some further thoughts about the phone/BT module in my car and the BT connection problems I've been experiencing...

 

As I now understand it, having read the Skoda workshop manual for my car in more detail, the coax cable that plugs into the side of the module connects to the shark-fin aerial on the roof of the car.  I'd previously assumed that the aerial was used to radiate and receive the Bluetooth signal on a frequency of 2.4GHz but I now believe that assumption is incorrect - if I'm now understanding things correctly, the aerial on the roof is used not only for GPS reception but also to enable the phone module to communicate with the mobile phone GSM network when a handset in the car is operating in rSAP mode, ie. the phone itself no longer communicates directly with the GSM network, it's done by the module via the aerial on the roof.

 

If this is correct then it begs the question of what type of aerial is used to send and receive the BT signal inside the vehicle?  It's occurred to me that, as far as I can tell, the phone/BT module is in a plastic enclosure so it's possible that there's some form of 2.4GHz aerial inside the module - that wouldn't work if the module was metal-cased!

 

Has anyone ever opened-up one of the phone/BT modules to see what's inside?  If they have, was there any sign of anything that might have comprised an aerial for the 2.4GHz BT signal?  The designers of mobile phone handsets obviously manage to squeeze such an aerial inside the handset so it shouldn't be too difficult to fit a more efficient aerial inside a phone/BT module!

 

If my existing 5N0 035 730 D module does turn out to be U/S as far as the BT is concerned then I might be tempted to open it up after replacing it with the 3C8 035 730 E module that I now have on order, but in the meantime I'll be interested to hear if anyone's peeked inside a module.

 

--

Martin

[jafo]

This is example of BT module with antenna on the PCB - yellow snake on the left

 

Not related to what's in your module - just to show you how it possibly looks like.

Edited 10 September, 2016 by jafo

[langers2k]

Hello again all, just some further thoughts about the phone/BT module in my car and the BT connection problems I've been experiencing...

 

As I now understand it, having read the Skoda workshop manual for my car in more detail, the coax cable that plugs into the side of the module connects to the shark-fin aerial on the roof of the car.  I'd previously assumed that the aerial was used to radiate and receive the Bluetooth signal on a frequency of 2.4GHz but I now believe that assumption is incorrect - if I'm now understanding things correctly, the aerial on the roof is used not only for GPS reception but also to enable the phone module to communicate with the mobile phone GSM network when a handset in the car is operating in rSAP mode, ie. the phone itself no longer communicates directly with the GSM network, it's done by the module via the aerial on the roof.

 

If this is correct then it begs the question of what type of aerial is used to send and receive the BT signal inside the vehicle?  It's occurred to me that, as far as I can tell, the phone/BT module is in a plastic enclosure so it's possible that there's some form of 2.4GHz aerial inside the module - that wouldn't work if the module was metal-cased!

 

Has anyone ever opened-up one of the phone/BT modules to see what's inside?  If they have, was there any sign of anything that might have comprised an aerial for the 2.4GHz BT signal?  The designers of mobile phone handsets obviously manage to squeeze such an aerial inside the handset so it shouldn't be too difficult to fit a more efficient aerial inside a phone/BT module!

 

If my existing 5N0 035 730 D module does turn out to be U/S as far as the BT is concerned then I might be tempted to open it up after replacing it with the 3C8 035 730 E module that I now have on order, but in the meantime I'll be interested to hear if anyone's peeked inside a module.

 

--

Martin

 

Correct, the roof antenna is for GSM and the BT antenna is inside the BT module.

 

Some older models would have an external antenna like this http://www.cars-equipment.com/www/en/shop/volkswagen/oem-8p0035503e-bluetooth-handsfree-controler-antenna/ but it's not applicable to 5N0...D or 3C8...E unit.

 

Have you had a VCDS scan done yet?

[AMartinD]

Correct, the roof antenna is for GSM and the BT antenna is inside the BT module.

 

Some older models would have an external antenna like this http://www.cars-equipment.com/www/en/shop/volkswagen/oem-8p0035503e-bluetooth-handsfree-controler-antenna/ but it's not applicable to 5N0...D or 3C8...E unit.

 

Have you had a VCDS scan done yet?

 

Hello langers2k, thanks for the info and for the confirmation that the BT antenna is inside the module - dunno why this didn't occur to me earlier but I've never previously had or felt the need to explore the detailed workings of vehicle BT systems...  :-)

 

Unfortunately I haven't yet managed to get a VCDS scan done but I'll see if I can get it done this week - I'll ask our local independent VAG specialists, who I know quite well, if they'll do it for me.  I'll report the outcome in due course.

 

--

Martin

[AMartinD]

Correct, the roof antenna is for GSM and the BT antenna is inside the BT module.

 

Some older models would have an external antenna like this http://www.cars-equipment.com/www/en/shop/volkswagen/oem-8p0035503e-bluetooth-handsfree-controler-antenna/ but it's not applicable to 5N0...D or 3C8...E unit.

 

Have you had a VCDS scan done yet?

 

Hello again langers2k, just to let you (and everyone) know that today (Fri 16th) I had a VCDS scan done by the excellent guys at V-Hub in Tewkesbury and there were no faults whatsoever logged for either the phone/BT module or the Columbus main unit, so it would appear that whatever's been causing the loss of BT connectivity didn't generate a fault code of any description.  Furthermore, no faults at all were flagged up by a full scan of all the car's systems.

 

Interestingly, when I first went out to the car this afternoon to take it down to V-Hub for the VCDS scan I checked to see if a phone search, initiated using the Maxidot and mutli-function controls on the steering-wheel, would produce any results and lo and behold the search found my iPhone and asked for the password to be entered.  The numeric keypad appeared as expected on the phone but when I entered the 16-digit password and instructed the phone to pair, the pairing didn't succeed - I think the Maxidot eventually displayed a message along the lines of 'No Bluetooth connectivity to the phone'.  When we tried to pair the V-Hub guy's Android phone to the car's BT we got exactly the same result.

 

The only thing I can think of that might have changed is that today has been much cooler than of late so perhaps there's a temperature-dependent intermittent fault somewhere inside the BT module that's preventing the BT from working reliably.  Something like a tiny crack in a PCB track or a poorly-soldered joint comes to mind as a possible cause

 

Anyway, I'm now going to swap the car's original 5N0 035 730 D module for the 3C8 035 730 E module that I've recently bought; hopefully full BT functionality will then be restored - wtach this space!

 

--

Martin

[superbdreams]

Bluetooth is bluetooth , if it's a different type it's not bluetooth. It'll be the apple phone, try an android phone and see if that connects

Wouldn't that be great?

And it was that way until apple...perhaps companies who make fortunes don't want to pay (nokia or whoever owns the rights now) the royalties.

 

Making non standard items means people have to buy the same companies products and more over if the item is popular enough you can then charge others to use your protocols.

 

for example, 3,5mm headphone jacks, standard you might think and was all my life until apple changed the connections so you had to buy apple certified ones.

 

AFAIK the vag Bluetooth is "the standard,,same as mazda use and many others....and I phones don't work well in other makes either.

[AMartinD]

Hello again all, I'm pleased to report a successful outcome to the saga of my car's non-functioning (or partly-functioning) Bluetooth.

 

I've just replaced the original 5N0 .. D module with the new 3C8 .. E module and deep joy, everything works just fine without the need for any re-coding or other malarkey.  The most time-consuming part of swapping the modules was fathoming out how to disconnect the Fakra aerial connector from the original module!

 

When I fired everything up and went into the MaxiDot's phone menu, my iPhone 5S was immediately detected by the 'New user' function, which seems to have superseded the previous 'Phone search' and after going through the authentication process, which is also different to what the old module did (no more 16-digit passcode to enter on the phone), the phone and the car paired without a hitch, the phonebook was transferred and all seems to be well.

 

There appear to be a few more functions available on the new module via the MaxiDot, for example there's a 'Settings' sub-menu option that allows one to select between 'Premium' and 'Handsfree' modes (it seems to have defaulted to Premium).  I haven't yet fully explored everything the new module can do, but at least I can now make and receive phonecalls which is all I really need.

 

I'm due to get a phone handset upgrade soon so I might consider going for an Android device instead of another iPhone, to enable the use of rSAP with its potential advantages.

 

Many thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, but especial thanks to Nathanio who pointed me at the source of the replacement module - I'm grateful to all for the help and advice provided.

 

--

Martin

Edited 17 September, 2016 by AMartinD

[HKe]

Hi Martin,

 

I know this topic conversation ended years ago but I read through the thread and have exactly the same problem described by yourself in my Skoda Superb Elegance 2011. Seeing that you bought the new module, I found the one on the below link; are you able to please check it to see if it's the same one which you bought to fix the problem? Also, I am not technical and would need a garage to fit it. Do you think it will be costly? (non dealer).

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bluetooth-Module-Cable-Microphone-fit-for-VW-RCD510-RCD-510-1K8-035-730-D-9W2-/253567272750?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

 

Really appreciate any advice!

 

Thanks,

 

Harrison

[numskull]

....and my BT module failed yesterday, giving exactly the same symptoms as the OP. And £950 for a new one?! Is that the Bugatti or the cheap Bentley version? That is completely insane. This issue has coincided with the bloody car stalling each time I declutch at lights or go into reverse etc.  Grrrrr.....