EU referendum/Brexit discussion - Part 2

[Ryeman]

6 hours ago, Skoffski said:

Berries / Fruit by the punnet.  That is variable.     

Barrels of oil in the world trade markets. 

 

At least a Half Loaf will stay a half loaf.    A half and a half is a drink not 2 half loaves.

 

PS.

A pint would not be 0.5 litre anyway.   More than that.

& a UK Quart is not the same as a US Quart.

 

......and bushels.

Americans can’t be helped either.......they know best.

[shyVRS245]

1 minute ago, Ryeman said:

Like - I’d run 1.6 kms for 600ml ?

I walked 3.2km yesterday to pick up 5 litres of screen wash from Aldi, unfortunately being a German company they don't sell it by the gallon. It was cheap though at £1.99.

[Ryeman]

I have always been in the habit of recalculating fuel consumption back into mpg also. But kms/l is what I’m looking for these days.

 

ps - I’m pretty sure NASA only deals in metrics.

Edited 1 February, 2019 by Ryeman

[shyVRS245]

2 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

I have always been in the habit of recalculating fuel consumption back into mpg also. But kms/l is what I’m looking for these days.

 

ps - I’m pretty sure NASA only deals in metrics.

Yeah had to use 12 old pennies when I was 5 so have experience of both systems. Still use 4.546 conversion every time I fill up for gallons. Old habits hard to kick.

[Ryeman]

6 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

Down my local pub I get a pint of Guinness not 0.5 or 1 litre. Do you not go to the pub like normal people or are living abroad with Farage and Lawson?

Good to see Tory true-to-form self-interest behaviour.

Predictability is somehow comforting.

[Ryeman]

Things are just simply spiffing -

 

[Ryeman]

Imagine if the young turn out for a second/confirmation vote  -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/02/fight-for-peoples-vote-is-not-over-yet-say-campaigners

[Ootohere]

Yes just imagine.

Just imagine if Polls got to everyone and not just those prepared to respond to polls.   Just imagine if those that never bothered to vote leave last time did it the next time, 

or the areas that had a majority Leave vote have more 16 and 17 year olds in that area that vote as their parents or guardians voted.

[shyVRS245]

Second vote won't happen FULL STOP.

[shyVRS245]

18 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Imagine if the young turn out for a second/confirmation vote  -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/02/fight-for-peoples-vote-is-not-over-yet-say-campaigners

jOHN lENNON wrote a song called IMAGINE, didn't change a thing, plenty of nations still at war, thousands of Americans shoot each other every year, teenagers stabbing each other to death in London, same as last year, same next year.

[Ryeman]

 

It’s ghoulish of me but this sort of behaviour is a unique example of incompetence with almost certain devastating consequences for those who voted for it ...........and an advertisement for the power of the internet.

[moley]

1 hour ago, Ryeman said:

Imagine if the young turn out for a second/confirmation vote 

Did they not bother turning out for the first vote? 

[shyVRS245]

9 minutes ago, moley said:

Did they not bother turning out for the first vote? 

All the 12 year olds couldn't vote thankfully, otherwise Corbyn would be in charge. He spends lots of time with students grooming them.

[lol-lol]

On 01/02/2019 at 06:29, moley said:

Italy in recession amid sluggish eurozone

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47068401

 

GDP For the last quarter:

Euro area 0.2%

Germany -0.2%

UK 0.6%

France 0.3%

Italy -0.2%

Spain 0.7%

Netherlands 0.2%

Sweden -0.2%

Poland 0.7%

Belgium 0.3%

Austria 0.4%

Ireland 0.9%

Denmark 0.7%

Portugal 0.3%

Greece 1.0%

 

 

These numbers are all tiny and only measure the declared economy and not the real economy.  Italy, perhaps more than most EU countries but it is endemic in all countries pass up to half the money that is paid/earned/accumulated not through systems that measure the transaction ie cash in hand, tax circumvention illegal and grey.  And then there is the tax avoidance that the Italian government and all other governments are gradually getting on top but will not fully successfully until physical currency is done away with and replaced by purely electronic payments.

Here is an article on the amounts of these tax evasions that can tweak the above numbers and show the real economic activity.....

 

https://euobserver.com/economic/143162

 

Tax-scams operated by the EU's top banks cost treasuries €55.2bn, a cross-border investigation has shown.

The scams, dubbed "the biggest tax robbery in European history", involved Deutsche Bank and Santander - the largest lenders in Germany and Spain.

• Deutsche Bank also handled billions of illicit Russian funds (Photo: Bjoern Laczay)

They also involved Germany's Commerzbank, Hypovereinsbank, Landesbanken, and Warburg Bank, British lender Barclays, French bank BNP Paribas, and global banks JPMorgan, Meryll Lynch, Morgan Stanley, and UBS. The scams worked via so-called "cum-ex" buying of shares and bonds.  The latin term, which means "with-without", is jargon for a kind of trade that enables banks to conceal the identities of their clients.  This, in turn, helps the clients to claim false, double, or multiple tax rebates on capital gains tax paid on the anonymous trades.  The fraud cost German taxpayers €31.8bn between 2001 and 2016, the investigation estimated. It cost France €17bn, Italy €4.5bn, and Denmark €1.7bn. It also harmed Austria, Belgium, Finland, the Netherlands, and Spain.  News of the problem first came to light in Germany in 2016. But its full scale was exposed by a cross-border investigation, involving 19 media in 12 countries, which consulted more than 180,000 pages of documents, including letters from German prosecutors, and which published its findings on Thursday (18 October).  "This is the biggest tax robbery in European history," Christoph Spengel, a tax expert at the University of Mannheim in Germany, told German newspaper Zeit.

  

&

 

https://www.thelocal.it/20160907/italians-europe-vat-tax-evasion-dodge-again

 

Italy is known for many things: its art, landscapes, food and wine, for example. But they also have the dubious honour of being crowned the biggest tax dodgers in the EU.  Evasion of VAT cost the country a staggering €36.9 billion in 2014, according to an EU-wide study published on Tuesday. That means that Italy is responsible for almost a quarter of the total lost VAT revenues in Europe.  The 'VAT gap study' by the European Commission measures the difference between 'theoretical VAT', or the expected revenue, and the amount actually collected in each country. Across the entire EU, the Commission calculated that a total of €159.5 was lost, but the differences between individual countries are large.  In Italy, the rate of evasion was 27.55 percent, a figure topped only in Greece, Lithuania, Malta, Slovakia and Romania. Sweden meanwhile came top of the class with a 1.2 percent rate of tax evasion.  And in terms of the actual amount of money lost, Italy topped the charts, with the state missing out on €36.9 billion of revenue - a figure Pierre Moscovici, European Commissioner for Financial Affairs, labelled "unacceptable".

 

 

Collect the taxes and the picture can look much more rosy. 

[Ryeman]

19 minutes ago, moley said:

Did they not bother turning out for the first vote? 

Apparently not.

I guess they believed the polls.

Doh!

 

there are the ones whose job it is now to fix the mess

Edited 2 February, 2019 by Ryeman

[lol-lol]

17 minutes ago, moley said:

Did they not bother turning out for the first vote? 

 

The Labour party analysed both the 2015 and 2017 result and concluded that many students, particularly degree level, had not got properly registered from the home town to the town of study and just not got round to registering for postal vote with reasons such as getting ready for exams and the like so Labour made a deliberate big push in 2017 to get in to Universities to get this strata for voter registered giving then help to do so and it was felt that it made quite a difference in the percentage voting.  The work has continued and lots of effort to get the 18-21 registered to vote even by postal if that is right for them where their place of residence can change is a matter of weeks unlike the older generations that are likely to be set in the same place for years.

 

If the current UK government was serious about actually representing those entitled to vote it would change to a more  technically advanced system and more proportional. I would like to see regions, broadly along West Midland, SE England etc but this would really mess up the Con government ie votes per seat in the 2015 election......

 

Party	Votes per seat
Conservatives	34,244
Labour	40,290
SNP	25,972
Lib Dem	301,986

   

 

[CWARD]

Let me get this right the young and intelligent who didn’t vote in the referendum did not do so because they assumed the polls were correct. Secondly they hadn’t registered themselves correctly to vote, which is an easy process. 

 

Can we still say they were intelligent?

[CWARD]

33 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

 

These numbers are all tiny and only measure the declared economy and not the real economy.  Italy, perhaps more than most EU countries but it is endemic in all countries pass up to half the money that is paid/earned/accumulated not through systems that measure the transaction ie cash in hand, tax circumvention illegal and grey.  And then there is the tax avoidance that the Italian government and all other governments are gradually getting on top but will not fully successfully until physical currency is done away with and replaced by purely electronic payments.

Here is an article on the amounts of these tax evasions that can tweak the above numbers and show the real economic activity.....

 

Collect the taxes and the picture can look much more rosy. 

 

Well that explains it then. The banks and financial institutions within the EU are just as corrupt as the EU body. Thank you for clarifying that issue. 

[Ryeman]

Around 7% of EU members’ population surveyed claimed that the European Parliament effectively runs their country but in Britain it’s 31%.

You have manufactured a victim mentality with assistance from the likes of Murdoch&Co I guess.

[Ootohere]

I have never been surveyed since i left the Polling Organisations i was a Panel Member of that was paid to participate.

Polling by Land Line phone or Internet is just really a pith take.

Polling by many organisations no matter how closely audited is so dodgy.

Yougov is in mind pollsters that i never trust.

As to the Founder, that is one Member or Parliament that i can jot understand why his constituents elect.

 

Many thousands of previous non voters and never on the electoral roll people in Scotland registered to get a vote in the Scottish Referendum.

Reason many never registered previously was because of the Community Charge (Poll Tax), and being at it and on the grip, on the run or at the capers.

 

So many in Scotland got registered to be able to vote. We know the outcome and 16 and 17 year old had the vote.

 

I do wonder just how many in England, Wales & Northern Ireland 18 and over are still not on the Electoral Roll that could be, and if there was to be a 2nd referendum would they register to be able to vote in that.

 

Some of those that like freedom of movement for them and theirs so much want to restrict other movement to the UK.

Founder of YouGov and Boris Fanboy.

 

2013.

 

 

 

Edited 2 February, 2019 by Skoffski

[CWARD]

3 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

Around 7% of EU members’ population surveyed claimed that the European Parliament effectively runs their country but in Britain it’s 31%.

You have manufactured a victim mentality with assistance from the likes of Murdoch&Co I guess.

 

If the EU weren’t so entwined with our lives, then why isn’t it so easy to leave?

[Ryeman]

4 minutes ago, Skoffski said:

Many thousands of previous non voters and never on the electoral roll people in Scotland registered to get a vote in the Scottish Referendum.

Reason many never registered previously was because of the Community Charge (Poll Tax), and being at it and on the grip, on the run or at the capers.

 

So many in Scotland got registered to be able to vote. We know the outcome and 16 and 17 year old had the vote.

 

I do wonder just how many in England, Wales & Northern Ireland 18 and over are still not on the Electoral Roll that could be, and if there was to be a 2nd referendum would they register to be able to vote in that.

 

That’s why it effectively can’t happen in Australia.

Certainly Mitch McConnell wouldn’t like our version of democracy.

[Ryeman]

5 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

If the EU weren’t so entwined with our lives, then why isn’t it so easy to leave?

They aren’t slowing/stopping or in any way denying you but you want to cherrypick your terms.

People and goods are inseparable and there lies your problem apparently.

[CWARD]

2 minutes ago, Ryeman said:

They aren’t slowing/stopping or in any way denying you but you want to cherrypick your terms.

People and goods are inseparable and there lies your problem apparently.

 

So they do run our country by dictating how we trade. Thank you for clarifying that too. 

[Ryeman]

6 minutes ago, CWARD said:

 

So they do run our country by dictating how we trade. Thank you for clarifying that too. 

No

You signed up to the EU and it’s evolving rules, for the good of those in the Union.

Nobody forced you into the EU.