1.2 TSI 110 sounds

[ettlz]

I've had a 1.2 TSI 110 Fabia for a week now and I'm gradually getting used to it. Coming from a Citigo, my feet are still undergoing retraining: the Fabia's throttle starts a bit later, and the clutch biting point seems earlier. There also seems to be something which automatically opens the throttle a bit as the clutch is raised. So I have to be a bit more careful to move off smootly, at the moment it seems to require gas set to about 1600rpm. There's not so much tactile and audible feedback for me to work with.

 

The noises are also rather different, it sounds like a little diesel. Do other people find theirs makes a buzzing sound, particularly when cold? It's quieter when warm, but is only noticeable when idling, or power is applied. It goes away when I release the throttle, which suggests to me it could be the fuel injector system. (Pardon my paranoia, I've never owned a TSI before )

 

Otherwise it goes quite rudely. (Shame I'm in Cambridgeshire where the wheel is a recent innovation and good progress invokes a superstitious terror in the locals.) Hopefully the fuel economy will pick up in the next few 1000 miles or so, although for running-in I've not been driving it entirely economically (different engine speeds etc.).

[johnh510]

It's interesting that you find the process of setting off smoothly a challenge too: I had thought it was just me.

 

I occasionally drive my other half’s 1.2 TSI 90 Fabia iii, and find it very different to my 1.2 HTP Fabia ii  - in which I can set off in a controlled manner every time, gently or quickly or anywhere in between.

 

The TSI seems to be all or nothing, with no subtlety in between. Perhaps the incremental step/granularity is too coarse in giving more fuel on pressing the (fly by wire?) pedal.

 

Does the TSI have a "butterfly valve" in the throttle body? I suspect not, which would also explain the lack of engine braking.

Presumably in pursuit of the odd mpg or three.

 

The Fabia iii is a nicer car than the Fabia ii, but I'm still not entirely convinced by the TSI, despite the improved performance and economy.

 

 

Regarding noises of the TSI, hers makes a selection of noises - the most alarming of which is the "dry tappets" (TAXI!) rattle after it has been parked up after a long run.

[ettlz]

Doing the throttle pedal recalibration trick has helped a little bit when manoeuvering, but it still seems to require a finer level of clutch control than I needed with the Citigo.

[johnh510]

Doing the throttle pedal recalibration trick has helped a little bit when manoeuvering, but it still seems to require a finer level of clutch control than I needed with the Citigo.

 

Throttle recalibration trick?

[ettlz]

Throttle recalibration trick?

 

It's been mentioned here before if there's a dead spot at the start of the pedal travel. Might be a forum myth, but who knows. Anyway, it's: 1. Park up and switch off engine, remove key. 2. Depress gas pedal fully and hold. 3. Switch on ignition but don't start the engine (so one click of the key). 4. Hold for 20 seconds. 5. Switch off ignition, remove key, release pedal.

Edited 8 November, 2016 by ettlz

[johnh510]

Thank you for that.

 

I've read a fair bit of the Fabia iii forum, since before we got it 6 months or so ago, but don't recall seeing that process.

[ettlz]

Thank you for that.

 

I've read a fair bit of the Fabia iii forum, since before we got it 6 months or so ago, but don't recall seeing that process.

 

Come to think of it, it might've been the Polo forum... same thing.

[Delberthot]

I've got a 105 TSI in my Rapid and am thinking about going for the 110 TSI Fabia - does it still do the same thing where if you're in second and want to accelerate there's nothing for a couple of seconds until the turbo kicks in then away it goes?

[fzrkev]

The buzzing you mention I booked mine in for. The courtesy car did it, as did another customer car in for a service. Seems it really is normal. Between me and the tech, we assumed either fuel pump or more likely, the injectors. Bear in mind we have NO soundproofing in the engine bay so we hear everything. I'm not worrying about it. Got it for 3 years and warrantied throughout.

[Guest]

I have the 110ps TSI and once warm the engine is quiet. When cold I certainly get the buzzing sound and it's normal for all TSI engines. I understand it's the injectors but it largely goes away when the motor is hot and when you come off the throttle. I've had the 'dry' tappet sound but it's actually the camshaft lobes hitting the valve buckets. It's not that common my dealer tells me but some engines do it. It's caused by oil draining from the camshaft valve timing adjuster mechanism. It does not require further investigation...I'm told by Skoda Technical. For those experiencing a rise in engine revs as you release the clutch, before applying throttle, that's the Hill Hold device being activated to help prevent stalling and running backwards. My DSG auto box version has it as standard but it has to be ordered I believe on manual versions unless it's the SEL which I think it comes with as standard. Delberthot, the 110ps TSI goes like a rocket with no turbo lag that I've noticed. The 105ps engine did have some lag and I experienced that. Take one of the new ones out for a spin, I think you will like it a lot. Much more power now. I also get a constant 49-52mpg ALL THE TIME! And I'm not driving economically as I'm still running in and am constantly varying the engine load, speed, and revs.

[vc-10]

Can't say I've noticed a buzzing, but there's a definite tapping. It reminds me of the old PD TDI engines when they were on very slight throttle (basically coasting) and the same conditions gets my TSI 90 to do it. I put it down to the injectors, my mum's 1.4 TSI Superb does the same. Regarding the soundproofing, my friend commented the other day that he can hear my music clear as day from outside the car, I don't think there's much soundproofing anywhere in it! Which kind of surprises me, as it's not exactly unrefined at speed. 

 

I do get an odd noise from the brakes (I think) when reversing. Slight screech, kind of like light braking when the pads are shot. I need to book it in for a look-see. The air conditioner also makes funny noises, which remind me of the noises the old mini-fridge I had in my room in uni halls made. I know there was talk on here about a dodgy batch of A/C compressors, I'm not sure if it's that. 

 

I'm not getting as good an MPG as Estate Man either, which is annoying! I put that down to Manchester traffic, it's horrendous. A good motorway run will get up into the 50s, but stop-start traffic kills the MPG. My friend's just ordered an A3 e-Tron, that's the powertrain I need in my Fabia! Electric for the nasty city traffic, and power when you want it.

[ettlz]

I'm not getting as good an MPG as Estate Man either, which is annoying! I put that down to Manchester traffic, it's horrendous. A good motorway run will get up into the 50s, but stop-start traffic kills the MPG. My friend's just ordered an A3 e-Tron, that's the powertrain I need in my Fabia! Electric for the nasty city traffic, and power when you want it.

 

Cambridge traffic is terrible for fuel economy. My old Citigo only had 'manual stop--start' (i.e. me turning it off); by the time I'd got out of the city centre it'd be at 25 mpg, tops. Reset the dial once out of the city and back on the A10 and it'd average 60-65mpg. At the moment with the Fabia I get 40-45 ish with variable driving, around 60 with careful cruising (70s and 80s even with a high enough gear, but I avoid that at the moment). Give it some welly and it'll drop down to the 20s, though (which is fair, a lot of that burn is going into making the car go faster...).

 

Besides at the moment I'm still learning the pedal curves and optimal gearbox policy, and its behaviour is a bit different from the normally-aspirated three-cylinder powertrains I'm used to.

Edited 8 November, 2016 by ettlz

[numptie-boy]

Never had any of the above. Take off, throttle and very light clutch are all smooth as silk. Economy isn't great though. 

[CRASH67]

Not had any issues in my 90TSI.... but had a 86TSI in the II for 4yrs and very similar, other then getting used to the new pedals had no issues.

Yet drove a citigo recently and found id rev too much when setting off at first but adjusted quickly...

But then i ve always had to drive varying vehicles for work, so guess ive picked up a nack to adjust pretty quickly...

[Delberthot]

I have the 110ps TSI and once warm the engine is quiet. When cold I certainly get the buzzing sound and it's normal for all TSI engines. I understand it's the injectors but it largely goes away when the motor is hot and when you come off the throttle. I've had the 'dry' tappet sound but it's actually the camshaft lobes hitting the valve buckets. It's not that common my dealer tells me but some engines do it. It's caused by oil draining from the camshaft valve timing adjuster mechanism. It does not require further investigation...I'm told by Skoda Technical. For those experiencing a rise in engine revs as you release the clutch, before applying throttle, that's the Hill Hold device being activated to help prevent stalling and running backwards. My DSG auto box version has it as standard but it has to be ordered I believe on manual versions unless it's the SEL which I think it comes with as standard. Delberthot, the 110ps TSI goes like a rocket with no turbo lag that I've noticed. The 105ps engine did have some lag and I experienced that. Take one of the new ones out for a spin, I think you will like it a lot. Much more power now. I also get a constant 49-52mpg ALL THE TIME! And I'm not driving economically as I'm still running in and am constantly varying the engine load, speed, and revs.

 

Thanks for the info Estate Man. I'm 2 years into a 3.5 year PCP deal and fancy a change. The car is booked in for it's second service with only 16k on the clock on Saturday so I'm going to see if they can do me a deal 

[rum4mo]

I have noticed the slight lag/hesitation in second gear, but as I've written before, I just put that down to me being too optimistic with that engine, mainly it happened with me early on in my time with the 1.2 110 engine, when moving up/along a feed-in lane out of first in second, traffic on main road so back off, then power back on but car moving too slowly = slight lag, all my fault!

[Guest]

Indeed rum4mo, that's not turbo, but software/mechanical limitations. 

[Jeffchiz]

can't say ive had any issues setting off or any weird noises, to me its just a smooth new car. Especially having to fit three cars on my drive I have to manoeuvre slowly and precisely, so basically I just reverse with the clutch and its very smooth and controllable. 

[Ootohere]

There can be another issue with VW Group vehicles that get OEM Eco tyres and the cars Traction Control system.

 

Lack of traction on UK roads with a bit of moisture due to ECO tyres & a detection of loss of traction by the sensors ABS / ESP & power gets cut.

Its maybe not the issue being discussed here with getting the car moving, but it can be in some cases.

Edited 9 November, 2016 by Offski

[ettlz]

Hmm... so I guess all we can conclude so far is that some of them have buzzy injectors, some of them don't, but it doesn't appear to be an indication of anything wrong?

Edited 9 November, 2016 by ettlz

[Guest]

That's correct ettiz. All the Fab Mk3's I've driven make the buzzing noise but it's hardly audible once warm. It's worse when the cars are new I think. It's not a fault. Relax and enjoy!

[vc-10]

What was interesting the other day is the difference in instant MPG at the same speed, but with the engine warmed up. On the flat, at 32 on the limiter (IE, 30 in real life) I was getting about 58-59 MPG with the engine cold, which went up to 69-70 MPG when the oil was at 80 C. The coolant gets up to temperature fairly quickly (the newer VAG engines have 2 coolant circuits, in order to get it up to temperature ASAP) but the engine oil takes that bit longer. I'm sure this makes up so much of the difference between what people report in the real life and what the official figures say, as the official figures are for a warm engine.

[ettlz]

There can be another issue with VW Group vehicles that get OEM Eco tyres and the cars Traction Control system.

 

Lack of traction on UK roads with a bit of moisture due to ECO tyres & a detection of loss of traction by the sensors ABS / ESP & power gets cut.

Its maybe not the issue being discussed here with getting the car moving, but it can be in some cases.

 

I don't know to what extent ESP/ASR is active when trying to pull away, but sometimes it does feel as if there's something in the software that thinks it knows better than me and overrides the throttle based upon where the clutch is at, rather than what I'm doing with the gas pedal. Keeping the revs nice and steady when manoeuvering is still a bit of a challenge -- but that could be me.

 

At the moment to do it nice and smoothly I'm finding I have to set the gas at about 1700rpm and then carefully let the clutch out, applying more power to prevent the revs dropping to near 1000rpm while not letting it run away and causing undue wear. It feels a bit like learning to drive again. The revs do pick up very quickly at the start of the gas pedal's travel; maybe I'm still too used to the Citigo's more linear response.

 

It seems to feel a lot smoother when the car is just rolling, even too slowly for it to be the car's momentum pulling the engine up to speed. There's no detectable lag or hesitation towards the lower revs when moving; quite the contrary, it takes off like a rocket but smoothly.

Edited 10 November, 2016 by ettlz

[Guest]

Don't forget that your new Fabia produces total max torque at just 1400rpm. I'd be careful about using so many engine revs to move off or manouver...sorry, not trying to tell you how to drive but I don't understand why so many extra revs are needed. 1700rpm is quite a lot just for moving off. In the manual versions of the TSI Mk3's I've driven just 1000rpm was needed to move off. Slightly more if I need to go very quickly. ESP/ASR is always active but plays no part in the moving off process unless the drive wheels actually begin to slip. I'm wondering if Hill Hold control is confusing you if you have it? On uneven ground the car detects you could roll backwards and so holds the brakes on for up to 2 seconds (also raising the engine revs ready for you to take up the drive on the DSG autos). It's one of those driver assist things that is always active in reverse or 1st gear and will operate on even slightly uneven ground where the slope is at least 5%). Do you have Hill Hold Assist/Control?

[ettlz]

Don't forget that your new Fabia produces total max torque at just 1400rpm. I'd be careful about using so many engine revs to move off or manouver...sorry, not trying to tell you how to drive but I don't understand why so many extra revs are needed. 1700rpm is quite a lot just for moving off. In the manual versions of the TSI Mk3's I've driven just 1000rpm was needed to move off. Slightly more if I need to go very quickly. ESP/ASR is always active but plays no part in the moving off process unless the drive wheels actually begin to slip. I'm wondering if Hill Hold control is confusing you if you have it? On uneven ground the car detects you could roll backwards and so holds the brakes on for up to 2 seconds (also raising the engine revs ready for you to take up the drive on the DSG autos). It's one of those driver assist things that is always active in reverse or 1st gear and will operate on even slightly uneven ground where the slope is at least 5%). Do you have Hill Hold Assist/Control?

 

There's no hill hold control on this one. Like I said, I'm still getting used to it, and all cars are different. I'll practise a bit more around the 1400rpm mark to try and find the right movements without it bogging down, otherwise it'll be a visit back to the dealer.

Edited 11 November, 2016 by ettlz