2017 F1 General Discussion Topic

[Wet Kipper]

it feels like Benson is expecting Kubica to get the seat, and wants to have stories to back himself up when it happens and he says "I always knew they would choose him"

[camelspyyder]

Vettel to Massa in:

 

Q1     0.8s

Q2     1.5s

Q3     1.8s

 

Vettel to Kubica

 

Weds test 1.9s

 

So yes Andrew Benson if you choose Massa's worst comparison (Q3) lap the Kubica deficit was 0.1 seconds. If you choose Q1 he's 1.1s adrift.

 

However, Vettel set his fast testing time in the morning, Kubica late on in the day so conditions were not comparable at all. 

Vettel and Massa in qually were clearly on track at the same time.

 

Meaningless manipulation of the stats by a very experienced journo who's getting a little carried away.

 

Without spinning the results like this, so far you'd have to say Williams are going to be taking quite a gamble, especially if he cant dominate Stroll or Sirotkin.

 

 

Edited 30 November, 2017 by camelspyyder

[Wet Kipper]

trouble for Williams is that anyone they take on now is going to be a gamble. Based on availablity, they don't seem to have

- a Massa equivalent for experience

- a younger driver with consistently good results compared to what they've been driving

 

and I don't expect they'll want another "doesn't drive that well, but has lots of cash" driver either

 

 

[LightRain]

1 hour ago, Wet Kipper said:

and I don't expect they'll want another "doesn't drive that well, but has lots of cash" driver either

So, not Sirotkin.

[nige8021]

Give the Williams seat to Paul diResta ?? but as said above, if someone comes with a truck load of cash, that'll sway the decision. 

[KenONeill]

6 minutes ago, nige8021 said:

Give the Williams seat to Paul diResta

Absol-frelling-lutely!

[camelspyyder]

Paul did a "unbelievable" job in Hungary thus year without getting in the car until Q1.

 

Toto Wolfe's quote.

[Wet Kipper]

I'd love to see Paul back in the car more - depends on whether they want him and believe he can be a #1 driver and also if he's prepared to give up the warmth of the sky studio and his DTM racing duties.

[camelspyyder]

Mercedes have pulled out of the DTM

 

(but HWA - thats AMG in effect have just joined FE by teaming up with existing team Venturi)

 

 

Edited 1 December, 2017 by camelspyyder

[camelspyyder]

Sauber Alfa-Romeo announce Leclerc, Ericsson as race drivers, with Giovinazzi the other top Ferrari junior as 3rd/test driver.

 

A win for the Swedish team owners there then, but how long before Leclerc's speed embarrasses them into dropping Marcus?

 

 

 

Edited 2 December, 2017 by camelspyyder

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

55 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Sauber Alfa-Romeo announce Leclerc, Ericsson as race drivers, with Giovinazzi the other top Ferrari junior as 3rd/test driver.

 

A win for the Swedish team owners there then, but how long before Leclerc's speed embarrasses them into dropping Marcus?

 

 

 

 

Interesting. I was very vocal of Ericsson not being much cop but it's been harder to slate him when Wehrlein hasn't exactly batter him. They always say about your benchmark being your teammate, but I often wonder if it's harder to show your talent in a sluggish back of the grid car vs a midfield or top car. 

 

I assume they'll get the latest Ferrari motor next year which would boost them up the field I'd expect, the line between back marker and midfield could well be blurred into one soon perhaps. 

[camelspyyder]

Hmm...

 

Ericsson looked totally out of his depth in '14 at Caterham.

Then his sponsors bought a seat at Sauber for '15 but he got mashed by rookie Felipe Nasr 27 points to 9.

Since then Nasr and Wehrlein have scored points in the car; Ericsson hasn't at all in the last 48 races!

However the Swedish sugar daddies took a controlling interest in Sauber over a year ago, fired the team boss who was of a mind to let him go, and he's still there.

 

I agree Wehrlein has disappointed this year as well, if he had the talent Mercedes thought he might Marcus wouldn't have been close, but I am convinced young Charles Leclerc will bring the overdue end to Ericssons risible F1 career, and I'd be amazed if it takes all of the 2018 season for him to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 December, 2017 by camelspyyder

[camelspyyder]

Benson backtracks (since Williams have not rushed to announce Kubica):

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42199674

 

The 32-year-old's fastest lap was a time of one minute 39.485 seconds. That's 0.9secs slower than lead Williams driver Felipe Massa managed in qualifying at the grand prix four days before, despite Kubica being on softer tyres.

 

 

Sergey Sirotkin, the Renault development driver who Williams were also evaluating at the test, was just under 0.5secs slower than Kubica on the same day. But he was running in hotter - and therefore slower - conditions and using the 'soft' tyre while Kubica was on the new hyper-soft, and there is about a two-second off-set in the tyres. So just looking at the basics of what is known - tyre performance and lap time - Kubica was in effect 1.6secs slower than Sirotkin. Which does not look good.

 

So Kubica did not look quick enough to make the decision to sign him a no-brainer.

 

So now he's written one article saying Robert is better than sliced bread and one saying the exact opposite!

[camelspyyder]

Jenson signs for Honda Super GT campaign.

 

https://www.autosport.com/gt/news/133407/button-to-race-super-gt-fulltime-in-2018

[LightRain]

2 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

Jenson signs for Honda Super GT campaign.

https://www.autosport.com/gt/news/133407/button-to-race-super-gt-fulltime-in-2018

Him and Nando going to partner up for Le Mans

Seriously though I'm glad he got out of F1 and can start hopefully getting enjoyment from racing again.

[camelspyyder]

Annual team bosses driver of the year poll:

 

Sainz up 2 places from last year, Bottas down 1. 

Ocon has clearly impressed them (and put paid to Perez's chance of a top team place ever again?)

 

Autosport's 2017 team bosses' top 10

	DRIVER		POINTS	CHANGE
1		Lewis Hamilton	233	-
2		Max Verstappen	143	-
3		Sebastian Vettel	141	2
4		Daniel Ricciardo	112	-
5		Esteban Ocon	73	New entry
6		Fernando Alonso	65	-
7 =		Kimi Raikkonen	49	-
7 =		Carlos Sainz Jr	49	2
9		Nico Hulkenberg	47	New entry
10		Valtteri Bottas	39	1

Who voted: Toto Wolff, Mercedes. Maurizio Arrivabene, Ferrari. Christian Horner, Red Bull. Vijay Mallya, Force India. Claire Williams, Williams. Cyril Abiteboul, Renault. Franz Tost, Toro Rosso. Gunther Steiner, Haas. Eric Boullier, McLaren. Fred Vasseur, Sauber.

[lol-lol]

27 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Annual team bosses driver of the year poll:

 

Sainz up 2 places from last year, Bottas down 1. 

Ocon has clearly impressed them (and put paid to Perez's chance of a top team place ever again?)

 

Autosport's 2017 team bosses' top 10

	DRIVER		POINTS	CHANGE
1		Lewis Hamilton	233	-
2		Max Verstappen	143	-
3		Sebastian Vettel	141	2
4		Daniel Ricciardo	112	-
5		Esteban Ocon	73	New entry
6		Fernando Alonso	65	-
7 =		Kimi Raikkonen	49	-
7 =		Carlos Sainz Jr	49	2
9		Nico Hulkenberg	47	New entry
10		Valtteri Bottas	39	1

Who voted: Toto Wolff, Mercedes. Maurizio Arrivabene, Ferrari. Christian Horner, Red Bull. Vijay Mallya, Force India. Claire Williams, Williams. Cyril Abiteboul, Renault. Franz Tost, Toro Rosso. Gunther Steiner, Haas. Eric Boullier, McLaren. Fred Vasseur, Sauber.

 

Feel sorry for Valtteri to be below Kimi, sounds a bit harsh but then he did have the fastest car and it is what you make of it I suppose.

 

Largely agree with the rest as a function of what the did with what they had.  

 

 

[KenONeill]

@camelspyyder @lol-lol Valtteri beat out Kimi for 3rd in the championship; Just what do these guys want from him?

[camelspyyder]

2 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@camelspyyder @lol-lol Valtteri beat out Kimi for 3rd in the championship; Just what do these guys want from him?

 

The judges are all there in the pitlane and see what really goes on.

 

However, from back here at my PC, I would say Kimi shouldn't even be in the top 10, the way he wasted this years very rapid Ferrari.

 

I'll go further. Kimi shouldn't be in F1 anymore, but Vettel is well happy with a slower team mate so Ferrari keep him on.

[KenONeill]

Well people in their top 10 who actually outperformed their car IMO - Fernando and Esteban.

 

People who at best did what could be expected of them given the cars - Lewis, Seb, Valtteri, Kimi, Max and Daniel R.

 

Which leaves me wondering why, even if they're only there because a top 10 has to contain 10 (or exceptionally 11) people, Carlos and Nico H aren't 9th and 10th.

[lol-lol]

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

Well people in their top 10 who actually outperformed their car IMO - Fernando and Esteban.

People who at best did what could be expected of them given the cars - Lewis, Seb, Valtteri, Kimi, Max and Daniel R.

Which leaves me wondering why, even if they're only there because a top 10 has to contain 10 (or exceptionally 11) people, Carlos and Nico H aren't 9th and 10th.

 

Put Le Mans winning Hulk in a 2017 in a Ferrari, Merc or Red Bull and I think he could have had some podiums. Perhaps we will see in Melbourne if the winter development goes well for Renault and Sianz too put I am still not sure of him.  Esteban to replace Valtteri would be good and Kimi with Lance Stroll if they could get him.   

  

[KenONeill]

@lol-lol - Don't you mean "...replacing Kimi with Lawrence Stroll's chequebook..." 

[camelspyyder]

I disagree about the Finns. Neither maximised their car like their team mates did so neither is an automatic Top 8 place.

 

Hulk has missed the boat now. He went to Renault because after all the years of waiting for a Ferrari shot, no big team actually wanted him.

 

Previous team mate Perez too has been waiting for too long (due to his Ferrari connections). It ain't gonna happen.

 

Sainz is on the way up and in the top 10 because he scored a boatload of points in the pretty poor Toro Rosso. Nobody else did anything with that car.

[camelspyyder]

Stroll? at Ferrari??

 

That would be the slow team mate Vettel needs all right.

 

We haven't seen a Ferrari qualify that badly since Fisichella and Badoer took over Massa's car.

[lol-lol]

On 12/7/2017 at 18:11, camelspyyder said:

Stroll? at Ferrari??  That would be the slow team mate Vettel needs all right.  We haven't seen a Ferrari qualify that badly since Fisichella and Badoer took over Massa's car.

 

Boy did OK.... I like him cause he is Canadian too though where I partly grew up and am named after somewhere over there.