2017 F1 General Discussion Topic

[LightRain]

8 minutes ago, Wet Kipper said:

is there a difference between "running off the track" because someone is pushing you wide (like Ricc and Verst did on Bottas) and deliberately cutting the inside of a corner in order to overtake ?

Should there be ?

There is plenty about this in the regulations. The main point is whether or not a driver gains an advantage. If a driver goes off track, gains a position doing that he can be said to have gained an advantage by doing so. If he then gives the position back or loses it anyway, it isn't really anything but notable and maybe punished if it becomes a consistent thing.

 

Quote

27.3 (of the sporting regulations)

Drivers must make every reasonable effort to use the track at all times and may not
deliberately leave the track without a justifiable reason.
Drivers will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with it and,
for the avoidance of doubt, any white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part
of the track but the kerbs are not.
Should a car leave the track the driver may re-join, however, this may only be done when it is
safe to do so and without gaining any lasting advantage. At the absolute discretion of the race
director a driver may be given the opportunity to give back the whole of any advantage he
gained by leaving the track.

For reference.

[camelspyyder]

Bottas went off, so should have lost positions at most other tracks - but at this one there was good traction off track so he retained position - gaining advantage, so its the same offence as overtaking off track.

 

The problem is the inconsistent application of the rules - especially after the race director had stated there would be no track limits penalties (at certain corners) at the start of the race weekend.

Edited 23 October, 2017 by camelspyyder

[ben1990]

Max was unlucky imo. Driven brilliantly and was the only driver to get penalised for track limits, the number of times the on-board showed drivers cutting the inside of the corners and no penalties.

[punyXpress]

Nowt to do with rules!

If you were offered a choice of a Ferrari or a can of Red Bull, which would you choose?

[camelspyyder]

11 hours ago, punyXpress said:

Nowt to do with rules!

If you were offered a choice of a Ferrari or a can of Red Bull, which would you choose?

 

 

"Ferrari bribe race officials scandal"

 

Remember you heard it here first...

[sparckzero]

21 hours ago, Wet Kipper said:

is there a difference between "running off the track" because someone is pushing you wide (like Ricc and Verst did on Bottas) and deliberately cutting the inside of a corner in order to overtake ?

Should there be ?

 

I would prefer it if the rules were enforced in a consistent manner - either tell the drivers they can do what they like, or that they have to keep a wheel within the track limits and risk a penalty if they fail to do so. I'm not sure how you'd make allowances for being pushed wide, avoiding an accident etc. - especially on the first lap.

 

That being said, I personally don't have a problem with the penalty that Verstappen was given - he left the track and cut the corner, gained an advantage (overtaking Kimi), which would normally result in the driver giving the place back anyway when under normal racing conditions.

 

On a wider note: I thought the race was great. It was good to see the teams mixing the tyre choices up and using some different strategies to make the race a bit more exciting. Sainz was extremely impressive - rocked up to a new team and did the job perfectly. Really hope Renault can build on that for next year. Kvyat did a fantastic job too.

[KenONeill]

Well, as I saw it, Max went to the very inside edge of the track at #16, gaining speed over Kimi by doing so, and then used that speed to enable him to go off the inside of the track completely at #17. You need to look at a continuous shot that shows his speed and car position from #15 on until he's passed Kimi to get the whole story.

 

Or should we allow drivers "using the GP circuit" at Silverstone to turn right instead of left at "The Loop" thus cutting off half the lap distance?

[ColinD]

Good racing, in parts. Shame Max's move was treated as such, rules are made to be broken and some might say, this was one time to let it go, given the rest of the weekends cutting in the cuts I've seen. I didn't spot the cut initially. TBH I thought he pulled away so fast, kimi must of given up, and indeed only just nicked it on the 5sec penatly. Cut or avoiding contact, who knows... at whatever speed it was, it's a matter of inches. True enough if monaco it would of been wall time for both of them...

 

Well Max will get his chances again and again, despite all we all saw it, and enjoyed it.

 

What was that start all about. Lordy glad I had headphones and could mute it.

 

 

[LightRain]

5 hours ago, ColinD said:

What was that start all about. Lordy glad I had headphones and could mute it.

What do you mean? It was a fairly clean start IMO.

[sparckzero]

38 minutes ago, LightRain said:

What do you mean? It was a fairly clean start IMO.

 

I think @ColinD was referring to the driver introductions...

 

I thought it added a bit of tongue-in-cheek humour to the whole proceedings. Whoever decided to nickname Kvyat "The Torpedo" is a genius. Probably not something to do at every race, but I think a little bit of bombast works well in America - especially as they're keen to grow the sport there.

 

Looking at what Liberty are doing (increased YouTube presence, announcing their own in-house streaming packages, actively engaging with F1 communities (e.g. www.reddit.com/r/formula1), "behind the scenes" videos etc.), I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

[LightRain]

42 minutes ago, sparckzero said:

I think @ColinD was referring to the driver introductions...

Ahh, I understand now. I think I agree with what you say. I don't watch anything but the race, but for those who like more of a show then why not? That said, if it starts to get like the Indy 500 "show" then perhaps they've gone too far

[camelspyyder]

Have you not watched the Nascar finale. Same intro to all the main players.

 

It's an American thing I think, and it was the American GP, and it is an American-owned sport.

 

I think Vettel named Kvyat the Torpedo after the 2 crashes in 2 corners episode they had...

 

 

Edited 25 October, 2017 by camelspyyder

[KenONeill]

3 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

I think Vettel named Kvyat the Torpedo after the 2 crashes in 2 corners episode they had...

 

Mr Vettel, I have a Mr Kettle for you on line 3. It's something about visual spectrum reflectance.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

I love Max, I really do, he's exciting to watch, even in the 3rd best car BUT that overtaking move wasnt fair IMO. Yeah they all ran out wide on some corners but it's an entirely different thing to cut the inside of a corner while making an overtake. 

[camelspyyder]

I haven't seen any footage that proves Kimi didn't close the door and force Max out there.

 

...although I have just seen a tweet from (F1 champ) Mario Andretti that alleges exactly that.

[gadgetman]

Dany Kvyat has been released by Toro Rosso, and won't drive for them again this season. 

[lol-lol]

 

Hamilton wants to do MotoGP.  

 

Lauda say MotoGP is much more of a spectacle than F1.

 

If the gap was big it is now so huge that F1 is no being out done by watching paint dry.

 

Max has been the only major joy for a couple of season now and F1 is shooting that.  

 

Wonder what Bernie E thinks of it?

 

  

[LightRain]

8 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Hamilton wants to do MotoGP.  

Maybe he wants to emulate John Surtees? I'm sure it'd be interesting for some but 2 wheels never really appealed to me. Still, I'd be curious to see how he'd do. Although, I'm slightly more curious as to how Alonso will do in his extracurricular activities. 

 

9 minutes ago, lol-lol said:

Wonder what Bernie E thinks of it?

Isn't the situation we're in now partially because of him?

[ColinD]

On 25/10/2017 at 07:18, sparckzero said:

 

I think @ColinD was referring to the driver introductions...

 

I thought it added a bit of tongue-in-cheek humour to the whole proceedings. Whoever decided to nickname Kvyat "The Torpedo" is a genius. Probably not something to do at every race, but I think a little bit of bombast works well in America - especially as they're keen to grow the sport there.

 

 

I was

 

Lets be thankful Pastor 'Shrapnel' Maldonado isn't there  

 

I am enjoying Grojsean radio

 

I'm not sure if kimi closed the door as such... maybe a twitch

 

Add in weight penalty ala touring, reverse grid, shorter sprint races and it's done  After all it's not endurance cars and it's not sprint racing... it's what endurance should be, making stuff last and sprint, go fast for 2 laps then stabilise...    I know it's hybrid f1 :P

 

 

[camelspyyder]

7 hours ago, gadgetman said:

Dany Kvyat has been released by Toro Rosso, and won't drive for them again this season. 

 

got a link?

 

 

[camelspyyder]

Ok - heres one.

 

https://beyondtheflag.com/2017/10/25/formula-one-brendon-hartley-confirmed-toro-rosso-rest-2017/

 

Sky also attributed the comment to Marko in Auto Bild (the German version of Sun Motors) so it's a fact?

 

Nothing on STR website yet?

 

 

Edited 26 October, 2017 by camelspyyder

[vrskeith]

 

[gadgetman]

2 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

 

got a link?

 

 

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12471/11096401/daniil-kvyat-dropped-from-red-bull-programme-and-won8217t-return-to-toro-rosso

[LightRain]

1 hour ago, gadgetman said:

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12471/11096401/daniil-kvyat-dropped-from-red-bull-programme-and-won8217t-return-to-toro-rosso

First Palmer, then Kvyat, finally some sense being shown.

[camelspyyder]

Hahaha - President of Russian Motorsports Igor Ermilin says "Kvyat in running for Williams seat"

 

Yeah, like Palmer is...

 

Massa's worried though, he's taken to regularly dissing DiResta and Kubica in the press.

 

Wehrlein hasn't given up on it either - it would certainly be a step up from Sauber.